OK, I'm willing to do the dyno runs at FAST Specialties. They've agreed to discount me some dyno time on a slow day. I'll put my stock air intake back in to baseline. I'll do multiple runs for each modification and post the dyno sheets. That way the tests will all be on the same car, on the same dyno, on the same day, on the same fuel. I'm not, however going to cut up my stock airbox or buy a K&N kit. So if you True Believers out there want a real comparative test someone needs to send me the parts. I'll pay the freight on any part back to the owner.
Any takers? Time to put up or......
HaveBlue,
A question popped in my mind. It's not going to turn the results around but could have an affect. The TonyA has the second intake hole that requires you to cut a 3" hole in the intake chamber flexible skirt. Did you do that and make the cut on your car? If not all of the extra air was coming from the hot engine compartment.
Bob
Have said the shop was 68 degrees. I would assume they had a fan and some air movement going on. I can tell you from first hand experience that in those temps with any kind of air movement it's not sucking enough hot air to matter. My first GTO intake setup I had the cone filter sitting right in the engine bay with zero seperation of intake air and engine compartment air. It was fine until the temps got into the upper 80's. I closely monitored intake temps with my laptop and took note of performance. It just didn't effect anything until it got hot out. In a 68 degree shop with a fan cutting this extra hole would make very little difference.
Now once it got hot out I saw problems and had to add a box with insulation to keep the air seperate. I'm attaching a pic of my original setup and my current setup.
If anything cutting holes to get cooler air in would help the Volant more. With the additional surface area it's cone provides it could really make use of some cool air. Someone should try a TonyA type mod on a Volant!
Robert, he used my TonyA airbox, which has a rectangular 2" x 5" hole cut near the very bottom. I inlcuded the matching rubber seal with the identical hole cut out.
Monty, you're right on the standard deviation, but the issue is that you need many runs to calculate it. "Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science" (he says in his best Monte Python voice). I simply looked at the variation vs. the peak numbers. If we had 20 runs or so, we could have gotten statistical, without it, we're just estimating. Microsoft Excel has some rudimentary statistical formula's built-in, if we had enough data, although we use MatLab for all of our digital signal processing and statistical analysis.
I always wonder when they do political polls with only 1000 samples to reflect the views of 300 Million people. Statistically, they can get within a few percent, standard deviation. But logic says they're full of poo.
Actually, I'm going to call the shop in Richmond and see when I can get in. I have to schedule taking a day off of work (the things I do for you guys!) to drive the 90 miles. I'm just as anxious to get the results for the 3.2L, as all of you guys!
TripleOught was gracious enough to offer to loan is 3.2L K&N, so we should have an identical test (stock, TonyA, Volant, K&N) for our early cars.
If anything cutting holes to get cooler air in would help the Volant more. With the additional surface area it's cone provides it could really make use of some cool air. Someone should try a TonyA type mod on a Volant!
I'm sure we'll be looking at it Ames. Ody or someone said the Volant doesn't get bolted down like the OEM box. That may present some problems. I bet Ody has looked at it!
Actually, the airbox designs are completely different. In reality, the TonyA is modifuing the stock airbox to be more like the Volant! The Volant has a snorkel that takes its cold air from next to the radiator. The inside is a simple hollow box that houses the cone filter which pulls it's air from all sides.
The Stock airbox panel filter only takes air from one direction, so we're restricted on where we put the extra intake hole (upstream of the filter) and behind the headlight. We also have the option to open up the waffle grid, to allow more air over the full area of the filter. Otherwise it's all coming through a 3" tube directed at the center of the filter.
One mod I recal seeing last year was a modified TonyA design, in which the entire waffle grid and inner tube were removed (drill out the plastic rivets) to make it a huge open airbox, and a cone filter was adapted to the MAF side. This in essense is truly a poor mans Volant. I'm willing to bet a cone filter is not more than around $60 (vs. the $40 panel filter), and the labor time is about the same as the regular TonyA mod, so it won't cost much more to get even more flow. And it would look totally STOCK! You could put the extra intake hole closer to where the Volant snorkel is located, since there is no worry about being downstream of the filter.
Actually, the airbox designs are completely different. In reality, the TonyA is modifuing the stock airbox to be more like the Volant! The Volant has a snorkel that takes its cold air from next to the radiator. The inside is a simple hollow box that houses the cone filter which pulls it's air from all sides.
The Stock airbox panel filter only takes air from one direction, so we're restricted on where we put the extra intake hole (upstream of the filter) and behind the headlight. We also have the option to open up the waffle grid, to allow more air over the full area of the filter. Otherwise it's all coming through a 3" tube directed at the center of the filter.
One mod I recal seeing last year was a modified TonyA design, in which the entire waffle grid and inner tube were removed (drill out the plastic rivets) to make it a huge open airbox, and a cone filter was adapted to the MAF side. This in essense is truly a poor mans Volant. I'm willing to bet a cone filter is not more than around $60 (vs. the $40 panel filter), and the labor time is about the same as the regular TonyA mod, so it won't cost much more to get even more flow. And it would look totally STOCK! You could put the extra intake hole closer to where the Volant snorkel is located, since there is no worry about being downstream of the filter.
He got the matching rubber front intake seal (rubber flap between the airbox and the headlight) with a matching hole cut out. HaveBlue has a normal CTS with the stock front bumper, so the test should have been apples to apples.
I don't even think the mod is worth the time for the gain you get.
[/quote]
As for those who feel they are owed Happy Meals, see the guy who twice in this thread accused me of perpetrating a scam to get free intake systems[/quote]
That guy was an ass. I wouldn't worry about him Blue.
I felt you must have but wondered how you did the cut. Ody straighten me out there. Hey, I'm convinced. I started a thread to round up the new Volant guys wanting to buy and the possibility of a "Group Buy". Tomm found us a heck of a deal at $234 w/ S&H
Some before and after test with the various exhaust systems should be next.
That was what I predicted, but I'm suprised the numbers are that high. I think everyone with a CTS should be happy to see this. 13 more hp out of the Volant is a good mod.
I'll second that. I just tested an LPE CAI on my V (which was installed about 3 months before I dynoed it). http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56069
I ended up with about a 9 RWHP difference (or 3% gain.) You ended up with a 6% gain on 13 RWHP.
I haven't read everything in the entire post, but I will make a few observations:
1) In LSx land, the PCM will cause the engine to run lean when you first install a CAI, as it is operating on fuel/air maps from the old less air config. This GREATLY increases the RWHP untill the engine 'learns' the new amount of air going into the engine is going to stay at that level, and then it changes it's maps. This is how many of the CAI vendors for LSx engines can advertise 20 RWHP gains (because it is true untill the PCM recalibrates). [Food for thoughts that 20 is a bit more than double my actual gain. I wonder if yours may fall in that same boat, and eventaully settle around 5-6 RWHP actual gain??] I know your engine uses a more advance PCM that ours, so I'm not sure if your's will suffer this type of lag, but it is something to consider. I will assume that you will keep the Volant, since it showed the most gains. It may be worth going back in a few months and checking to see if you are still getting the same gains.
2) I usually compare my 3rd pull when trying to gauge actual gains, as by this point, the engine is usually fairly heat soaked, and it also best reflects 'real world' driving.
Most everyone who's had the K&N has complained a lot about the sound. It makes a lot more noise than stock or the Volant. Lots of whistles and such, not very "cadillac-like".
Does the K&N for the 3.2L replace the intake tube?
For the 3.2L dyno runs, I only plan on running stock, TonyA, and Volant, unless someone has a 3.2L K&N they want to loan. HaveBlue is shipping me my TonyA back, along with a stock intake for the runs, which I'll be 'forced' (due to the popularity of this thread) to schedule asap.
I'll also be doing identical runs with the stock wheels and tires, and 18" wheels and tires (9 lbs heavier, each), just for grins. Unfortunately, I've already installed my Borla dual exhaust, so I likely won't be doing a completely stock baseline.
I'm going to show up with my 18's and 245's on the car, do a baseline run, then switch to the stock 17's with 225/50R17's for all other runs. I want to keep wheel size out of the equation, if I can, but I want a run to show any affects too. If anyone has a set of 20's mounted with tires they want me to do a run with, they can meet me at AED Performance south of Richmond in two weeks. I want to get these done before the thanksgiving holiday.
I've got all of the 3.2L cold air intakes as of last week. I called to schedule dyno time, but they told me they only need a day or two notice and to call back when I'm ready. I was going to do it this Friday, but I have a yacht racing awards banquet Friday evening, and I'm not sure if I'll make it back in time. Tentatively, I'm shooting for the following Friday, so I can take half a day off work to make the 90 mile trek. I also want an afternoon to test fit the K&N and make sure I have all of the fittings and tools ready for quick airbox changes. All tests will be in fourth gear, AC off, and 93 octane. The Borla exhaust is on and will keep me from getting a fully stock baseline, but that's the breaks!
I'm figuring about 1.5 to 2 hours of dyno time (@ $90/hr!). Here's my plan for runs:
1) 18's and Volant
Rest of runs on stock 17 on the back
2) Volant
3) K&N intake tube (possibly filter, if it all fits) on Volant airbox
4) K&N
5) TonyA
6) stock airbox
If that doesn't get us all the possible data, I don't know what will!
I'm going to show up with my 18's and 245's on the car, do a baseline run, then switch to the stock 17's with 225/50R17's for all other runs. I want to keep wheel size out of the equation, if I can, but I want a run to show any affects too. If anyone has a set of 20's mounted with tires they want me to do a run with, they can meet me at AED Performance south of Richmond in two weeks. I want to get these done before the thanksgiving holiday.
I've got all of the 3.2L cold air intakes as of last week. I called to schedule dyno time, but they told me they only need a day or two notice and to call back when I'm ready. I was going to do it this Friday, but I have a yacht racing awards banquet Friday evening, and I'm not sure if I'll make it back in time. Tentatively, I'm shooting for the following Friday, so I can take half a day off work to make the 90 mile trek. I also want an afternoon to test fit the K&N and make sure I have all of the fittings and tools ready for quick airbox changes. All tests will be in fourth gear, AC off, and 93 octane. The Borla exhaust is on and will keep me from getting a fully stock baseline, but that's the breaks!
I'm figuring about 1.5 to 2 hours of dyno time (@ $90/hr!). Here's my plan for runs:
1) 18's and Volant
Rest of runs on stock 17 on the back
2) Volant
3) K&N intake tube (possibly filter, if it all fits) on Volant airbox
4) K&N
5) TonyA
6) stock airbox
If that doesn't get us all the possible data, I don't know what will!
Your gonna be a busy man. I just wish I can see the difference with the 17's and 20's I am sure someone can hook you up. I am going to Dyno my car Nov 19th to see how much performance the headers and cats did for my car. I was thinking of running it in the Dyno with the stock 16's but if I run 16's I wont really know exactly how much power the headers and cats added since I did my previous run on 20's.
I love you guys who give up their spare time and absorb the expenses to do these test. Ody, I hope you're taking some help like your older son.
I just installed my Volant. If you come back with results contrary to HaveBlue regarding the Volant I'm gonna explode!:rant2: :bomb:
I love you guys who give up their spare time and absorb the expenses to do these test. Ody, I hope you're taking some help like your older son.
I just installed my Volant. If you come back with results contrary to HaveBlue regarding the Volant I'm gonna explode!:rant2: :bomb:
on installing the volant, i used pieces of dark foam to wedge between the back of the volant box and the fender. this eliminates any slip and helps eliminate vibrations from the engine.
*note* when i took a screw driver to the top of the airbox (the 7 set screwes on the carbon fiber) they were all quite loose. i'm hoping the foam eliminates some of that. MAKE SURE TO OCCASIONALLY CHECK THE SCREWS. it has been roughly 2 months with my volant...just for your information...
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