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Cadillac CTS First Generation Forum - 2003 - 2007 Discussion, The Great Air Intake Challenge in Cadillac CTS Coupe, Sport Sedan and Sport Wagon Forums; Great job HaveBlue...and thanks for confirming! SO with your test, dealer recommended and installed Volant (no warranty issues for me), ...
  1. #211
    pjohnesq's Avatar
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    Re: The Great Air Intake Challenge

    Great job HaveBlue...and thanks for confirming! SO with your test, dealer recommended and installed Volant (no warranty issues for me), I'm good! Now all I have to do is make an appointment to dyno with my Magnaflow and V-exhaust....Props to you - Blue

  2. #212
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    Re: The Great Air Intake Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by MontySkull
    The 2hp difference might fall into standard deviation for experimental error. I'm far to lazy to actually figure out the percentage though.
    It's less than 1%. (2HP/233HP= ~0.0086 or 0.86%) Very close.

  3. #213
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    Re: The Great Air Intake Challenge

    Now just need the results for the 3.2L and we're all set.
    Ody when do u think u'll be able to do that?

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    Re: The Great Air Intake Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by odysseus
    It's less than 1%. (2HP/233HP= ~0.0086 or 0.86%) Very close.
    I'm a little rusty, but standard deviation should be S= [1/n-1((x1-xavg)^2+(x2-xavg)^2...)]^(1/2) where "n" is the number of times it was tested and "x" is the result of each test minus the average of all the tests... I'm still too lazy to do the math.

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    Re: The Great Air Intake Challenge

    HaveBlue,
    A question popped in my mind. It's not going to turn the results around but could have an affect. The TonyA has the second intake hole that requires you to cut a 3" hole in the intake chamber flexible skirt. Did you do that and make the cut on your car? If not all of the extra air was coming from the hot engine compartment.

    Bob

  6. #216
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    Re: The Great Air Intake Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertCTS
    HaveBlue,
    A question popped in my mind. It's not going to turn the results around but could have an affect. The TonyA has the second intake hole that requires you to cut a 3" hole in the intake chamber flexible skirt. Did you do that and make the cut on your car? If not all of the extra air was coming from the hot engine compartment.
    Bob
    Have said the shop was 68 degrees. I would assume they had a fan and some air movement going on. I can tell you from first hand experience that in those temps with any kind of air movement it's not sucking enough hot air to matter. My first GTO intake setup I had the cone filter sitting right in the engine bay with zero seperation of intake air and engine compartment air. It was fine until the temps got into the upper 80's. I closely monitored intake temps with my laptop and took note of performance. It just didn't effect anything until it got hot out. In a 68 degree shop with a fan cutting this extra hole would make very little difference.

    Now once it got hot out I saw problems and had to add a box with insulation to keep the air seperate. I'm attaching a pic of my original setup and my current setup.

    If anything cutting holes to get cooler air in would help the Volant more. With the additional surface area it's cone provides it could really make use of some cool air. Someone should try a TonyA type mod on a Volant!
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    Re: The Great Air Intake Challenge

    Robert, he used my TonyA airbox, which has a rectangular 2" x 5" hole cut near the very bottom. I inlcuded the matching rubber seal with the identical hole cut out.

    Monty, you're right on the standard deviation, but the issue is that you need many runs to calculate it. "Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science" (he says in his best Monte Python voice). I simply looked at the variation vs. the peak numbers. If we had 20 runs or so, we could have gotten statistical, without it, we're just estimating. Microsoft Excel has some rudimentary statistical formula's built-in, if we had enough data, although we use MatLab for all of our digital signal processing and statistical analysis.

    I always wonder when they do political polls with only 1000 samples to reflect the views of 300 Million people. Statistically, they can get within a few percent, standard deviation. But logic says they're full of poo.

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    Re: The Great Air Intake Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by BishopRuger
    Now just need the results for the 3.2L and we're all set.
    Ody when do u think u'll be able to do that?
    Well, the pressure is certainly on now! LOL

    Actually, I'm going to call the shop in Richmond and see when I can get in. I have to schedule taking a day off of work (the things I do for you guys!) to drive the 90 miles. I'm just as anxious to get the results for the 3.2L, as all of you guys!

    TripleOught was gracious enough to offer to loan is 3.2L K&N, so we should have an identical test (stock, TonyA, Volant, K&N) for our early cars.

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    Re: The Great Air Intake Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by AmesCTS-V
    If anything cutting holes to get cooler air in would help the Volant more. With the additional surface area it's cone provides it could really make use of some cool air. Someone should try a TonyA type mod on a Volant!
    I'm sure we'll be looking at it Ames. Ody or someone said the Volant doesn't get bolted down like the OEM box. That may present some problems. I bet Ody has looked at it!

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    Re: The Great Air Intake Challenge

    Actually, the airbox designs are completely different. In reality, the TonyA is modifuing the stock airbox to be more like the Volant! The Volant has a snorkel that takes its cold air from next to the radiator. The inside is a simple hollow box that houses the cone filter which pulls it's air from all sides.

    The Stock airbox panel filter only takes air from one direction, so we're restricted on where we put the extra intake hole (upstream of the filter) and behind the headlight. We also have the option to open up the waffle grid, to allow more air over the full area of the filter. Otherwise it's all coming through a 3" tube directed at the center of the filter.

    One mod I recal seeing last year was a modified TonyA design, in which the entire waffle grid and inner tube were removed (drill out the plastic rivets) to make it a huge open airbox, and a cone filter was adapted to the MAF side. This in essense is truly a poor mans Volant. I'm willing to bet a cone filter is not more than around $60 (vs. the $40 panel filter), and the labor time is about the same as the regular TonyA mod, so it won't cost much more to get even more flow. And it would look totally STOCK! You could put the extra intake hole closer to where the Volant snorkel is located, since there is no worry about being downstream of the filter.

  11. #221
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    Re: The Great Air Intake Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by odysseus
    TripleOught was gracious enough to offer to loan is 3.2L K&N, so we should have an identical test (stock, TonyA, Volant, K&N) for our early cars.
    but let it be know that tripleought does indeeduse the volant.


  12. #222
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    Re: The Great Air Intake Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by odysseus
    TripleOught was gracious enough to offer to loan is 3.2L K&N, so we should have an identical test (stock, TonyA, Volant, K&N) for our early cars.
    but let it be known that TripleOught indeed uses the Volant.


  13. #223
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    Re: The Great Air Intake Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by odysseus
    Actually, the airbox designs are completely different. In reality, the TonyA is modifuing the stock airbox to be more like the Volant! The Volant has a snorkel that takes its cold air from next to the radiator. The inside is a simple hollow box that houses the cone filter which pulls it's air from all sides.

    The Stock airbox panel filter only takes air from one direction, so we're restricted on where we put the extra intake hole (upstream of the filter) and behind the headlight. We also have the option to open up the waffle grid, to allow more air over the full area of the filter. Otherwise it's all coming through a 3" tube directed at the center of the filter.

    One mod I recal seeing last year was a modified TonyA design, in which the entire waffle grid and inner tube were removed (drill out the plastic rivets) to make it a huge open airbox, and a cone filter was adapted to the MAF side. This in essense is truly a poor mans Volant. I'm willing to bet a cone filter is not more than around $60 (vs. the $40 panel filter), and the labor time is about the same as the regular TonyA mod, so it won't cost much more to get even more flow. And it would look totally STOCK! You could put the extra intake hole closer to where the Volant snorkel is located, since there is no worry about being downstream of the filter.
    Sounds like exactly what i need!

  14. #224
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    Re: The Great Air Intake Challenge

    I had thought about putting a cone in the OEM box. I guess I got lazy. There is enough room.

    I don't think HaveBlue got back about cutting a new hole to the air chamber of his CTS for the test. It could have affected the results if he didn't.

  15. #225
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    Re: The Great Air Intake Challenge

    Ody said he sent the modified skirt with the tonya box.

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