LY7 and NO2, anyone?
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Cadillac CTS First Generation Forum - 2003 - 2007 Discussion, LY7 and NO2, anyone? in Cadillac CTS Coupe, Sport Sedan and Sport Wagon Forums; Given the proper tune, and addressing the driveline (Level-10 transmission, rebuilt driveshaft, V-car differential, poly bushings throughout), how feasible is ...
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    LY7 and NO2, anyone?

    Given the proper tune, and addressing the driveline (Level-10 transmission, rebuilt driveshaft, V-car differential, poly bushings throughout), how feasible is a mild (50hp) shot of juice for the LY7?

    Everything I have read boasts that the high feature V6 is a pretty strong engine internally. So once the regular issues (PCV system, etc) are addressed, would adding NO2 be do-able?

    Im not talking about anything crazy like a 150hp fogger system. Simply plumbing in some nozzles either into the lower intake plenum runners, or in the upper intake, directly above each port. And just using a simple 50hp single shot system.

    I currently have the VMAX spacer and RX dual check valve catch can, and will have the VMAX throttle body as soon as its available. Obviously a good Trifecta dyno-tune would be in order, and will be done as soon as I get the throttle body. But I do not know if any special tuning would be needed for the NO2. It would probably only be used at WOT, and so I think the whole process would happen faster than the computer could even register what was going on.

    I do want to upgrade to 28# injectors, versus the sad 23# stockers. And the aforementioned Level-10 tranny would have a 2500rpm stall. This is all theoretical at this point, as I am a broker-@$$ college going family man. But I think that NO2 is way more feasible than forced induction on the LY7.

    Any ideas? Thanks for any input.

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    Tlorenzen is online now Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post
    Given the proper tune, and addressing the driveline (Level-10 transmission, rebuilt driveshaft, V-car differential, poly bushings throughout), how feasible is a mild (50hp) shot of juice for the LY7?

    Everything I have read boasts that the high feature V6 is a pretty strong engine internally. So once the regular issues (PCV system, etc) are addressed, would adding NO2 be do-able?

    Im not talking about anything crazy like a 150hp fogger system. Simply plumbing in some nozzles either into the lower intake plenum runners, or in the upper intake, directly above each port. And just using a simple 50hp single shot system.

    I currently have the VMAX spacer and RX dual check valve catch can, and will have the VMAX throttle body as soon as its available. Obviously a good Trifecta dyno-tune would be in order, and will be done as soon as I get the throttle body. But I do not know if any special tuning would be needed for the NO2. It would probably only be used at WOT, and so I think the whole process would happen faster than the computer could even register what was going on.

    I do want to upgrade to 28# injectors, versus the sad 23# stockers. And the aforementioned Level-10 tranny would have a 2500rpm stall. This is all theoretical at this point, as I am a broker-@$$ college going family man. But I think that NO2 is way more feasible than forced induction on the LY7.

    Any ideas? Thanks for any input.
    Interesting. I myself considered this at one time, but decided Itd be better to put that money towards school and living lol. @50 shot I dont think she would complain too much really. Do you have intake/exhaust as well?

    A tune will definitly be needed as I could use one myself with just intake/exhaust/spacer. I was getting some slight knock on the dyno om 87 octane but was good on 93.

    Anyways, I dont have any experience with juicn, but if you do follow through, keep us updated.

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    http://m.summitracing.com/parts/zex-...FSJqMgod0XoAxg

    Dont even need to reinforce anything really with this one.

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    Re: LY7 and NO2, anyone?

    I sprayed my camaro with a 75 shot dry no tuning no fuel increase however at full throttle the timing advance curve is about + 12 ecu controlled . I'm sure the cts proably has more of a advance timing increase .. And nitrous and to much timing can be a death sentence so if you get tuned you'll want to take that into consideration at wot spraying you'll want to back timing down .. But at wot not spraying you'll need the timing like stock for normal operation .........I used a msd timing curve box . Don't believe that is feasible on a cts tho

    Believe the cts trans could handle a 50 shot . Might put a strain on first gear clutches from a dead stop on the juice tho

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    Re: LY7 and NO2, anyone?

    I think the transmission needs to be addressed on our cars regardless of adding spray. I got mine flushed at 110,000 miles and added an external cooler/temp gauge, but I still do not trust it. The price of a replacement through a dealership is $3,000... the price of a built from scratch, race-ready 5L40E from Level-10 is $3,000. So its just something I am saving for, even though my transmission is running smooth as silk since the flush/filter/fill.

    That being said, I have a Volant CAI, and only use 91+ octane fuel in my car. I want/need to get it tuned for the premium fuel, but I am waiting for the VMAX throttle body before I get her tuned. I am running stock exhaust, and will continue to do so. My opinion on exhaust upgrades is, well, dont. The pathetic amount of power you might gain isnt worth the noise. Wouldnt even "upgrade" to the Vee exhaust, even if I did add NO2. I might track down some V-car mufflers and have them installed, just for the tips, but I do not need exhaust tubing and a resonator meant for a 5.7L V8 on my 3.6L V6.

    I am also pretty sure that the factory V6 differential would grenade with a sudden 50hp jump in power. That is why I think a V-car pumpkin is necessary for this to happen. Adding 50hp to the LY7 puts it right around CTS-V power. So having a differential meant for that seems wise. Plus, I want the steeper gears.

    As far as the tune is concerned, I think that I could have the normal operating mode stepped up to about where the factory "Sport" mode is now. Then have the "Sport" mode tuned for NO2. With two separate modes of operation available, I might even be able to safely use the spray off the jump. All things considered, I think that 50hp would be most beneficial at the go, rather than at WOT/top-end. That is another reason why I want the lower gears in the differential. Instant acceleration. I never do, and probably never will, get a chance to play at top speed of my car, even as it is now. Adding 50hp at WOT essentially does nothing for me. Being able to spray off the light makes way more sense to me.

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    Re: LY7 and NO2, anyone?

    50 shot isn't an exact amount after emulsion with air and gas it's actually less I only gained 56 rear wheel hp with my 75 shot . Nitrous is usually activated buy a window switch triggered when the gas pedal is floored .. So leaving from a dead stop at wot it would spray if the arm switch is on that is the way mine was hooked up . Before I exploded my bottom end

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    concorso is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: LY7 and NO2, anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post
    Given the proper tune, and addressing the driveline (Level-10 transmission, rebuilt driveshaft, V-car differential, poly bushings throughout), how feasible is a mild (50hp) shot of juice for the LY7?
    There have been a few F/I setups, all run through stock diffs, and they have held up. Ive got over 300 full throttle launches on my G80, with stickier tires and mild power upgrades. I always make sure to drag the brake before stoping at the starting line, to remove any driveline slack. Its holding up fine for me so far. I changed the diff fluid at 500 miles and again at 1500 or so, IIRC, and then once yearly after that.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Leects07 View Post
    Believe the cts trans could handle a 50 shot . Might put a strain on first gear clutches from a dead stop on the juice tho
    I agree. As with anything, testing is the real way to prove, and both the trans and diff are untested. The only proof we have of trans failure is from the BMW 5's and 3's, but those were earlier 5L40s...ours have been improved.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post
    That being said, I have a Volant CAI, and only use 91+ octane fuel in my car. I want/need to get it tuned for the premium fuel, but I am waiting for the VMAX throttle body before I get her tuned. I am running stock exhaust, and will continue to do so. My opinion on exhaust upgrades is, well, dont. The pathetic amount of power you might gain isnt worth the noise. Wouldnt even "upgrade" to the Vee exhaust, even if I did add NO2. I might track down some V-car mufflers and have them installed, just for the tips, but I do not need exhaust tubing and a resonator meant for a 5.7L V8 on my 3.6L V6.
    Why are you using 91 when you say the car isnt tuned for it? BTW, I have yet to hear someone say the CTSV exhaust is not a worthwhile upgrade. There is no overall increase in volume, but the lower hz are increased, you just get a slightly deeper tone. It is still VERY quiet and VERY stock sounding.
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post
    I am also pretty sure that the factory V6 differential would grenade with a sudden 50hp jump in power. That is why I think a V-car pumpkin is necessary for this to happen. Adding 50hp to the LY7 puts it right around CTS-V power. So having a differential meant for that seems wise. Plus, I want the steeper gears.
    Care to provide some examples of diff failures that would indicate theyd grenade with a 50 hp bump? My diff is fine, and it should hate me by now. BTW 400 - 50 /= LY7. 300 is not right around 400.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post
    As far as the tune is concerned, I think that I could have the normal operating mode stepped up to about where the factory "Sport" mode is now. Then have the "Sport" mode tuned for NO2. With two separate modes of operation available, I might even be able to safely use the spray off the jump. All things considered, I think that 50hp would be most beneficial at the go, rather than at WOT/top-end. That is another reason why I want the lower gears in the differential. Instant acceleration. I never do, and probably never will, get a chance to play at top speed of my car, even as it is now. Adding 50hp at WOT essentially does nothing for me. Being able to spray off the light makes way more sense to me.
    I dont know what kinda drag racing you take part in, but in an LY7 CTS, I go WOT from a stop. If you dont go WOT from a stop, why would you then try to make up for it with gears and NOZ? This isnt a powerhouse car, theres no feathering the pedal at 500 ft down the track... You simply smash the go-pedal and release it 15 seconds later.
    odthetruth and RCVW like this.

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    Re: LY7 and NO2, anyone?

    I like the additives in premium fuel. Even with a catch can installed, I still like any help I can get keeping the engine clean. And the higher octane is a nice bonus. I used premium fuel in my 1994 Chevy Beretta, as well. The entire purpose of fuel is to burn, the higher the octane, the better it burns... never thought I would have to defend my choice of buying premium fuel.

    Not that I drag race at all, but I do go WOT from the light. No problem. In both normal operating mode and Sport mode. When I was referring to WOT, I was talking about my top-end. I thought I made that clear when I said WOT/top-end. I just want a "go" button for sh!ts and grins. And if I am going to have nitrous, I want to use it off the start, rather than when I am already traveling at go-directly-to-jail (do not pass Go) speeds. Going from 0-60 way faster is more fun than going from 100-120 faster, in my opinion.

    I understand that the LY7 with the standard bolt-ons is around 300hp (Tlorenzen has a dyno sheet to prove this). Adding 50hp to that is approaching CTS-V numbers. Still not there, but close enough that I think a CTS-V differential would handle it better. And, the lower gears are an added bonus. A Vee diff is the easiest way to switch to the lower gears that I want, so its killing two birds with one stone. Either way, I do need to change my differential fluid.

    I do not want a deeper tone to my exhaust. I like my whisper quiet Cadillac. And I would like it to stay that way. Personal choice, I guess. To each their own.

    Can we get back to the details of actually adding the NO2 to the LY7? Would it be better to plumb the nozzles into the lower plenum or the upper intake? Does it matter?

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    Re: LY7 and NO2, anyone?

    I say go for it! I've thought about it. I have a dynotune wet kit just sitting around from a previous vehicle. I'd suggest a bottle warmer and window switch though.

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    Re: LY7 and NO2, anyone?

    I like the idea of the window switch. That seems to leave the best room for tuning.

    I am also leaning towards plumbing the nozzles into the lower intake plenum runners, rather than the upper intake. NO2 already has oxygen in it, and atomizes instantly, so I do not need to allow any time for it to mix with the incoming fuel/air. Keeping the site of injection closest to the point of burn seems like the best way to maximize the effects.

    Do I have to worry about factory head gaskets holding up to the additional heat or anything like that? Does NO2 burn up catalytic convertors? These are the sorts of things I want to have all worked out before ever attempting this.

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    Re: LY7 and NO2, anyone?

    If your going for a standard fogger kit a dry shot single nozzle . I would put the nozzle in the intake tubing as this is the most common placement for bolt on nitrous setups also can be hidden well enough nobody would no . Closer to the throttle body on the under side of the intake pipe is a tried an trued spot

    I lost two valves and a piston on my 383 lt1 burned a whole right threw my piston . Nitrous is tuff but keeping the shot low will give you better breathing room for eras that may arise

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    Re: LY7 and NO2, anyone?

    You juiced a 383 LT1? I like your style. Not a lot people play around with the LT-engines. I really like the reverse cooling. I have been seriously thinking about dropping an LT1 into a 240z, but lately I am leaning more towards a 372" stroked LS1 (standard 3.9" bore with a 3.9" crankshaft, making it "square").

    But, back on topic, I know nitrous is pretty harsh on an engine, so I would use it very sparingly. The kit I had in mind is the 60-250 horsepower Nitrous Express kit meant for the V6 found at Andy's Auto, link:
    http://www.andysautosport.com/cadill...x00001264.html
    It has six nozzles, and thats why I was wondering where would be best to place them. I just do not know if there is room under the intake manifold to add nozzles to the lower plenum runners. If there isnt room, I would probably put them in the upper intake, as close to each port as possible.

    I do not want to have to change out anything in the rotating assembly. But I will definitely have to get new piston rings. When adding nitrous do you need stiffer valve springs? Does anyone make new valve springs for the LY7? MACE doesnt, so I assume nobody else does.

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    Re: LY7 and NO2, anyone?

    Valve springs should be fine and as far as room depending on height they may squeeze under there they make several types of shortie nozzles and low pro types they may work . Better in tight fitting situations

    the 383 is my 97 slp ss 30th anniversary camaro lt1 ( my mane project) can be a pain but can make lots of power
    But if I was going for swaps Ls series is the way to go . There just down right superior blocks and heads

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    Re: LY7 and NO2, anyone?

    I'd just run a modest wet shot from a single nozzle into the intake tubing to start? Id definitely use a bottle warmer, window switch, WOT switch and make sure I chose conservative pill sizes aka make sure there is enough fuel...For a nitrous tune, I'd knock of a few degrees of timing of the wot tables via hptuners. That's about it.

    Infact, is a tune really necessary if there is enough fuel supplied?

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    In all honesty our trans should be fine w the trans cooler and fresh fluid in that and the rear end. Having said that I wouldnt juice off the line, thats sketchy even with a built car. Im pretty sure even without a tune you would feel the n20 when engaged, but thats a little sketchy too. Id like to give my computer a heads up on the spray. Im 99.9% sure you would melt you cats and 02 sensors tho.. need a wide band and hi flow cats or straight piped.

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