Problem after problem after problem
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  • 2 Post By CTSUK
  • 2 Post By Tlorenzen
Cadillac CTS First Generation Forum - 2003 - 2007 Discussion, Problem after problem after problem in Cadillac CTS Coupe, Sport Sedan and Sport Wagon Forums; Finally fixed everything on my 2003 CTS... was ready to sell, now this. I start the car and the idle ...
  1. #1
    StreetsofGold is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): '03 CTS Base
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    Problem after problem after problem

    Finally fixed everything on my 2003 CTS... was ready to sell, now this. I start the car and the idle jumps all over the place... It shifts horribly when driving... Reads "engine power reduced"... Before all this happened I posted here that the car would sometimes start up and immediately clunk out (did it on maybe 2-3 occasions, the first of which was the day after I had the dealership program a brand new ECM for me.) Called them, they want another $120 just to look at it, not to mention I'd have to get it towed. Sometimes you gotta do everything yourself in this world. What is the problem now, anybody know?... This car is haunting my dreams...

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  3. #2
    dead civic is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Problem after problem after problem

    sorry to hear man. I hope you get some help.

  4. #3
    StreetsofGold is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Problem after problem after problem

    Thanks bro, ME TOO!

    Here are six codes I just pulled from my brand new ecm:
    p2135c
    p0121c
    p2119h
    p2176h
    p2107c
    p0700h

    DTC P2135 (current)
    Circuit Description
    The throttle position (TP) sensors 1 and 2 are located within the throttle body assembly. The TP sensors share a common 5-volt reference circuit and a common low reference circuit. The 5-volt reference circuit is also shared with accelerator pedal position (APP) sensor 2. The 5-volt reference voltage is supplied on 2 separate engine control module (ECM) terminals, but the terminals are connected internally to the same voltage supply. Each TP sensor has an individual signal circuit, which provides the ECM with a signal voltage proportional to throttle the plate movement. When the throttle plate is in the closed position, the TP sensor 1 signal voltage is near the low reference and increases as the throttle plate is opened. The TP sensor 2 signal voltage at closed throttle is near the 5-volt reference and decreases as the throttle plate is opened. The ECM compares the signal of the throttle position sensors to the predicted TP sensor signal, based on calculations from the mass air flow (MAF) sensor. The control module also compares the signal of the TP sensor 1 and TP sensor 2 through the entire range. If the ECM detects a difference from the predicted range of more than 6 percent between sensor 1 and sensor 2, DTC P2135 sets.

    DTC P0121 (current)
    Circuit Description
    The throttle position (TP) sensors 1 and 2 are located within the throttle body assembly. The TP sensors share a common 5-volt reference circuit and a common low reference circuit. The 5-volt reference circuit is also shared with accelerator pedal position (APP) sensor 2. The 5-volt reference voltage is supplied on 2 separate engine control module (ECM) terminals, but the terminals are connected internally to the same voltage supply. Each TP sensor has an individual signal circuit which provides the ECM with a signal voltage proportional to the throttle plate movement. When the throttle plate is in the closed position, the TP sensor 1 signal voltage is near the low reference and increases as the throttle plate is opened. TP sensor 2 signal voltage at closed throttle is near the 5-volt reference and decreases as the throttle plate is opened. The ECM compares the signal of the TP sensors to the mass air flow (MAF) sensor when the engine is running to determine if the sensor readings are correct. The control module also compares the signal of TP sensor 1 and TP sensor 2 through the entire range. If the ECM detects a difference of more than 6 percent between sensor 1 and sensor 2, and a difference from the predicted range by more than 9 percent, DTC P0121 sets.

    DTC P2107 (current)
    Circuit Description
    The engine control module (ECM) controls the throttle blades by applying a varying voltage to the throttle valve motor. The ECM monitors the actual throttle blade position using the throttle position (TP) sensor 1 and 2. If the ECM detects the throttle actuator control system does not operate in the desired throttle range, DTC P2107 sets.

    DTC P2119 (history)
    Circuit Description
    The engine control module (ECM) controls the throttle blades by applying a varying voltage to the throttle valve motor. The ECM monitors the actual throttle blade position using throttle position (TP) sensor 1 and 2. If the ECM detects the throttle blade did not return to the rest position within a calibrated time, DTC P2119 sets.

    DTC P2176 (history)
    Circuit Description
    The engine control module (ECM) controls the throttle blades by applying a varying voltage to the throttle valve motor. The ECM monitors the actual throttle blade position using throttle position (TP) sensor 1 and 2. If the ECM cannot detect the minimum throttle position, DTC P2176 sets.

    DTC P0700 (history)
    Circuit Description
    This diagnostic trouble code (DTC) indicates that an emissions related transmission fault has occurred. The transmission control module (TCM) has no direct control of the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL), but if a transmission fault occurs that is emissions related, the MIL must illuminate. The TCM transmits a MIL request signal over the CAN bus to the ECM and the ECM will turn ON the MIL. This allows the MIL to illuminate, even though the fault was detected by the TCM. If a TCM MIL request signal is received by the ECM, P0700 will set.

  5. #4
    StreetsofGold is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Problem after problem after problem

    Anybody?

  6. #5
    CTSUK's Avatar
    CTSUK is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Problem after problem after problem

    Worth a throttle relearn if not done already?
    ghettomike and ghettomike like this.

  7. #6
    Tlorenzen is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Problem after problem after problem

    Quote Originally Posted by CTSUK View Post
    Worth a throttle relearn if not done already?
    ^ That's what I was thinking. Sounds like most of them codes are a result from the TB.
    ghettomike and ghettomike like this.

  8. #7
    StreetsofGold is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Problem after problem after problem

    Idle Learn Procedure:

    Ensure that the following conditions are met:
    The vehicle speed is 0 mph.
    The accelerator pedal angle is less than 14.9 percent.
    The battery voltage is more than 10 volts.
    The engine coolant temperature (ECT) is between 5-60°C (41-140°F).
    The intake air temperature (IAT) is more than 5-60°C (41-140°F).
    Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds.
    Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF for 1 minute.
    Turn OFF the ignition.
    Clear DTCs as necessary.


    That was my first guess.. I'm thinking the kid at the dealership forgot to perform this after programming the new ECM. But I performed it twice already without measuring the temperatures and pedal angle (no tools). I did it after the car had been sitting all day, assuming that the temperatures should be in spec. As for the pedal angle I don't get that at all. It's nowhere near less than 15% from the horizontal and for it to be less than 15% from the vertical I'd have to press it to WOT.

    In fact, the idle didn't go all haywire until days after I performed this procedure for the first time... like I said it would just clunk out occassionally after starting it. As for the procedure I don't know what I could possibly be doing wrong... Maybe I should just have the ECM reflashed and then perform the procedure? Help!

  9. #8
    StreetsofGold is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Problem after problem after problem

    Two more codes p0221c and p0638h both related to throttle again. Bump.

  10. #9
    Argent1's Avatar
    Argent1 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Problem after problem after problem

    You can Google them for details. Does the '03 give details as well as code numbers ?
    It appears that one is current & one historical.

  11. #10
    ghettomike's Avatar
    ghettomike is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Problem after problem after problem

    do the relearn process.may want to clear the codes then disconct the battery for a few min before you do.

  12. #11
    StreetsofGold is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Problem after problem after problem

    I got the details from the service manual. C is for current and H for history that is correct. It can really only be one of three things:

    1) reflash ecm and relearn idle
    2) clean throttle body / tp sensors
    3) replace throttle body / tp sensors

    I guess I was hoping someone would chime in that has been through this exact experience. I've PM'd two people who fixed this problem, one did #1 above and the other did #3. I see threads all over the place recommending #2 but no success stories. Again the main thing here is that all this started happening after I installed a new ECM and some young kid at Cadillac programmed it. I've already tried performing the idle learn procedure with no luck.

    Anybody else been through this?

  13. #12
    CTSUK's Avatar
    CTSUK is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Problem after problem after problem

    4) take it back to where it was programmed and let them sort it out, maybe they have messed something up?

  14. #13
    CADDYPRINCESS's Avatar
    CADDYPRINCESS is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Problem after problem after problem

    so was this fixed?

  15. #14
    StreetsofGold is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Problem after problem after problem

    Yes it was... like I said this car haunts my dreams. I got more unrest than the middle east. Ended up just taking it off the streets for 6 months and removing myself from society john the f***ing baptist style. But anyway it turns out I was right, some beautiful soul over at Cadillac didn't feel like doing his job that day. I took it to Chevrolet for a reprogramming/reflashing of the ECM and emphasized my strong desire to have the IDLE RELEARN procedure performed immediately thereafter (yeahh, which is protocol). So for any future visitors to the thread, problem fixed and no more of those error codes have ever returned. But let me give a shoutout to my original "problem after problem after problem" title because now the heater don't work and the check engine light lit up the other day p0128 (thermostat). Yup... see you all in the heater core threads

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