Oil Catch can update - Page 2
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 41
Like Tree6Likes
Cadillac CTS First Generation Forum - 2003 - 2007 Discussion, Oil Catch can update in Cadillac CTS Coupe, Sport Sedan and Sport Wagon Forums; i would just buy the smallest cheapest one you could...its just a can, as long as its air tight its ...
  1. #16
    ghettomike's Avatar
    ghettomike is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 03 CTS 3.2L / 09 CBR 600rr - Bazzaz tuned
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    off the grid.
    Age
    30
    Posts
    7,844

    Re: Oil Catch can update

    i would just buy the smallest cheapest one you could...its just a can, as long as its air tight its all good.

    so i checked mine a couple days ago and there was a lot of residue in it, kinda like the pictures teachers show you in grade 5 about the smokers lung, but no oil in it, no fluids at all.
    first time i checked it it was half full with water, and that was 3 weeks after putting it in and it was cold out... i think the catch can fixes the winter freezing valve cover issue for the 3.2s

  2. #17
    neurotictim is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 2006 STS-V, stock. Blacked-Out 2007 CTS 3.6 "Odd One"
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    438

    Re: Oil Catch can update

    I'm hooked. My biggest concerns about buying a CTS were the timing cover issue and the oil consumption issue. So can anyone lay this out for me in layman's terms? Catch can goes between the ___________ and the __________? If I can grasp the overall purpose, I'll buy one and figure out an install on my 3.6, and I'll document the whole process. $30 seems like nothing to help ensure longer engine life and reduce wear and tear.

  3. #18
    odthetruth's Avatar
    odthetruth is online now Moderator
    Automobile(s): 2006 CTS-V
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,979

    Re: Oil Catch can update

    It will help the engine burn cleaner, but not really reduce wear and tear. You'll have to keep your eyes on the dipstick in a 3.6 for that.
    If I had to install it on a 3.6... it would be on the intake hose that runs into the intake airbox. that tends to be oily and have oil in it. i'm sure running the catch can there would yield the best results.

  4. #19
    neurotictim is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 2006 STS-V, stock. Blacked-Out 2007 CTS 3.6 "Odd One"
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    438

    Re: Oil Catch can update

    Well then I guess I've got a project for this weekend, then. If I can find the time I'm also going to do the Lexan DIY on the turn/fog lenses.

  5. #20
    Kingoftypos is online now Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 06 CTS Sport/Luxury package
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ledyard, CT
    Age
    35
    Posts
    7,293

    Re: Oil Catch can update

    Ok, I wish that I had saved the thread that someone had posted this link... http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performan...51145/10002/-1

    I know it was in the last 2 weeks or so, because I bought the above product that night. Well now that I have received it, I am not entirely sure about it. I briefly looked at the picture, noticed the inlet and outlet. What I didn't notice, was the fact that one was screwed in, and the other was just floating for the picture. Well now that I have the product, I am a little concern. It's just a tank with two holes, one at each end. I can see right through the other side, with no blockage of any kind inside.

    Can I still use this product? If so, how do I install it, vertically or horizontally? If vertically, which am I going to attach the engine side to, and the intake side to?

    KOT

  6. #21
    ghettomike's Avatar
    ghettomike is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 03 CTS 3.2L / 09 CBR 600rr - Bazzaz tuned
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    off the grid.
    Age
    30
    Posts
    7,844

    Re: Oil Catch can update

    That's a little diferent, mine both in and out is on the top, with a drain on the bottom.air gets sucked in..dirt and moisture falls (the coolant is scaring me...but its only in the winter, so I assume that's the crappy pcv design) then the out tube is also at the top so it sucks just clean(er) air out.
    I don't know if there is pics of mine on here, I think there is 1 in my pcv thread.. I can take a better pic @ 6 and email you it.

  7. #22
    simple2me's Avatar
    simple2me is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): Black 06/08 Satillac CTS-O
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Southwest Louisiana
    Posts
    398

    Re: Oil Catch can update

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingoftypos View Post
    Ok, I wish that I had saved the thread that someone had posted this link... http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performan...51145/10002/-1

    I know it was in the last 2 weeks or so, because I bought the above product that night. Well now that I have received it, I am not entirely sure about it. I briefly looked at the picture, noticed the inlet and outlet. What I didn't notice, was the fact that one was screwed in, and the other was just floating for the picture. Well now that I have the product, I am a little concern. It's just a tank with two holes, one at each end. I can see right through the other side, with no blockage of any kind inside.

    Can I still use this product? If so, how do I install it, vertically or horizontally? If vertically, which am I going to attach the engine side to, and the intake side to?

    KOT
    That was me KOT. That's the one I said I was going to use after modifying (inserting baffles and adding a port for a solenoid valve (auto drain back)). I just posted the link of the catch can and gave a brief description of what i was going to do with it. Sorry if you understood it as a ready to install item. those are used for radiators, transmission, etc..... I have one on my racetruck and thought it would work well as a oil catch can with modifications made to it.

  8. #23
    Kingoftypos is online now Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): 06 CTS Sport/Luxury package
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ledyard, CT
    Age
    35
    Posts
    7,293
    Ah ha, I read your entire thread including the part that you were gonna install a solenoid to allow the oil back into the dip stick. But I must of skipped the baffle part. Lol.

    Well are you in need of another one? :-)

    KOT

  9. #24
    simple2me's Avatar
    simple2me is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): Black 06/08 Satillac CTS-O
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Southwest Louisiana
    Posts
    398

    Re: Oil Catch can update

    i was going to order another one to modify. Not sure how transactions are made on here though.

  10. #25
    odthetruth's Avatar
    odthetruth is online now Moderator
    Automobile(s): 2006 CTS-V
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,979

    Re: Oil Catch can update

    I still have mine, the one in this video, in perfect condition, basically. I can't use it on the LS2 engine because of the lack of space where the PCV is located at. I'm trying to sell my catch can.

    As you can see in the vid, it works perfectly. I don't suggest reusing any of the oil that gets caught.

    [2006 CTS-V - "The Vee Baby Seamus"] - 372rwhp / 361rwtq
    Pacesetters | Off Road Adapters | Cutouts | Stock Airbox | Stock Catback
    BMR AWK | CS Diff Block | Short Shifter | UMI MM | Revshift TM

  11. #26
    ShapeShifter's Avatar
    ShapeShifter is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): 2006 CTS Sport w/Wheel Performance & Sport Appearance Pkgs
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Age
    61
    Posts
    807
    Several of us guys with supercharged engines use an L&S Oil Separator to prevent oil from being sucked into our TB, Intake and Intercooler Systems where it clogs them and then contributes to engine detonation.. Sometimes with catastrophic consequences. This particular separator allows for evacuation of crankcase gases, but most importantly it allows for the return of the oil back to the engine for continued lubrication. It's maintenance free, which I believe most catch cans require you manually service. One big difference with the L&S is it has the PCV valve in the loop and our 3.6L incorporates a PCV Orifice. Ideally, I wouldn't mind having a similar maintenance free separator for my CTS. If interested you can read about the L&S Oil Separator @ http://www.lnsauto.com/articles/ford..._article.shtml

    Our issues just got me wondering if a product like this could be adapted to meet or needs. So I thought, why not toss it out there?

    Oh, for give if I'm way off the mark here, was only thinking of more possible alternatives.

  12. #27
    joartstewey is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2003 CTS LS Auto.
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    44

    Re: Oil Catch can update

    "i would just buy the smallest cheapest one you could...its just a can, as long as its air tight its all good".

    So, attempting to do the catch can mod on my 3.2 and found that the can I ordered from ebay is not exactly air tight.. There seems to be an air leakage coming from the plastic tubing on the side. I'm wondering if I should return it and try again, rig it, or will the lack of an air tight container not be that much of an issue? Thx

  13. #28
    SC2150's Avatar
    SC2150 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): CTS
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Palmetto, FL
    Age
    57
    Posts
    1,544

    Re: Oil Catch can update

    Catch can 101:

    Understanding the need for
    a proper PCV oil separating catchcan

    Any engine driven hard will ingest a certain amount of oil into the intake air system resulting in loss of power, detonation, and long term carbon buildup on the pistons & valves reducing the velocity and flow through the engine.

    Preventing this on a street driven car subject to emissions requires some simple modifications to the closed OEM PCV system.

    On all out race applications where emission rules do not apply, this is accomplished in different ways, but proper crankcase ventilation is a must! The crankcase gets filled with harmful combustion byproducts that if not evacuated will cause internal damage to your engine and shorten the usable life. These byproducts include: Sulfuric acids, abrasive carbon particles, unburnt fuel, water, and more. If you do not have a proper crankcase evacuation system these compounds will condense inside the engine and mix with the oil as well as begin corroding internal parts. It is NOT enough to just vent the crankcase pressure through a breather, but it must be flushed with a filtered fresh air source to carry these out & away. In an OEM system, these are burnt in the combustion chamber & further in the catalytic converters.

    In an off-road or race application, the engine is normally not used to burn them off.
    At the very least drag only motors have a scavenge evac system in the header collectors to pull vac, and anyone that's serious has a belt driven vac pump.....especially the Alky motors due to the amount of moisture the alcohol introduces to the crankcase.
    *
    Want to see whats in your oil? A simple oil analysis will show you how much harmful stuff ends up in it.


    The oil analysis will show the acid build up....and no, it takes a year or two before you would see any substantial damage to your internal engine parts.....but an easy way is after 6 months or so of running like you describe pull a valve cover and look and the corrosion from the vapors on your rocker arms. This is the first place it is visible.


    Bottom line is, w/out a proper evac system you WILL sustain long term engine damage. It may take a few years to notice, but I build motors 6 days a week when not racing and see the results first hand.

    There are several other ways for oil mist to enter the intake manifold, the PCV system is the most common with the fresh air make up source (the fitting on the top rear of your throttle body) being the second most common. To eliminate that you need to cap the TB fitting and run a valve cover breather (installed as far from the crankcase vent as possible...ideally you want to pull filtered fresh air in one valve cover & evac it out the other or the LS6/LS2 style valley cover is second best) Then if it is excess crankcase pressure pushing oil vapor/mist out faster than the PCV can evac it you will see it pushed back through the line from the pass valve cover front to the TB and it is ingested from there. Want to see whats in your intake manifold? Simply remove the 4 10mm bolts that hold the TB to the intake manifold. Take a white paper towel and reach into the intake manifold snout, rub it around, and pull it out. V6 LLT owners...just inside the intake opening you will see a deep collection well that accumulates oil. The 3rd point of ingestion is from reversion. This of course needs at least one piston/ring/bore/valveguide or seal issue that is allowing oil to be pulled into that one or more intake port and at high RPM's the reversion pulse will "push" that oil throughout the entire intake manifold. It will appear to have entered from the vac fitting that the PCV system uses but is really from one of the cylinders (reversion is a whole different process that is not widely understood but do a Google search and you can actually find some super high speed video of engines on dyno's where at high RPM's...9-10-12K plus the reversion cloud of A/F mixture is actually rising out of the intake runners or carb on a non fuel injected motor). To test for that just place a clean clear fuel filter inline between the catch can outlet and the vac fitting. If it gets oil on the can side, oil is coming through the can. If it first appears on the intake vacuum side, then it is reversion so you have a deeper issue.

    Here is direct from GM on a service procedure:

    Throttle body service is the throttle body cleaning and wiping of the bore and throttle blade. The service is important in order to keep the automobile running smoothly, efficiently, and safely.
    There is carbon and sludge that the PCV system deposits into the throttle body as the engine operates. This carbon and sludge is cleaned out during the throttle body service. How well the engine operates about a year after service is determined by the way the automobile starts, how well it idles when it’s cold or warm, and when accessories such air conditioning and heat are operating. The carbon and sludge will also affect the way the car starts from a total stop. A service such as this will keep the idle valve, which is computer controlled, clean. If it is left dirty and covered with carbon, it will have to be replaced and such a replacement can be costly.
    An important part of the engine is the throttle body, which is part of the air intake system. The air intake system increases the amount of oxygen used for combustion with fuel. You can either gain or lose power with the air intake system depending on the vehicle’s ram. The throttle body is a part of this air intake system. Keeping the throttle body in good operating condition will keep the car running without costly occurrences.
    Importance of the Throttle Body Service
    Careful and regular throttle body service will keep the emissions from the engine’s exhaust system in check. There is also increased sound when the throttle is applied by way of the accelerator. If the vehicle is operated at lower speeds, there is less noise coming from the engine. However, at higher speeds, the engine tends to become very noisy. These two statements make the throttle body service important in itself, as it makes the automobile more environmentally friendly. A complete throttle body service is recommended every 15,000, 40,000, and 75,000 miles to be sure that the automobile is functioning properly.
    It is most important to have the throttle body serviced regularly to avoid the high cost of replacement. The cost of throttle body service or replacing the throttle body varies with the year, make, and model of the car. But, no matter what that year, model, or make may be, replacement is not inexpensive. Excluding the cost of replacing the throttle body for the moment, what is perhaps even more important, is to have the throttle body serviced regularly to keep your car running smoothly and efficiently.

    *
    Having engine smoke or excess crankcase pressure? There may be a deeper issue. On the LS motors we pull apart it is usually # 7 ringland broken between the compression & middle ring, or the land itself broke off at the top. We also find the top ringland pinched or crushed down on the top ring (comp. ring) and metal transfer along the piston side has caused the oil & scraper ring to stick allowing oil & blow-by. Also, try this: at idle (vac is at it's greatest when at idle or when the throttle blade closes from high RPM's) remove the oil fill cap and hold your hand over it. Does it pull a slight suction? If so, all is good with most of the system and I doubt you have a damaged piston/ring/bore. But if there is ANY pressure pushing back you have a deeper issue and that is the cause of the oil problem.

    Now on big cam/stroker builds a can inline on the dirty side, and a can inline from the fresh air source may be needed (the bigger the bore & longer the stroke, the more crankcase pressure is built up) If it is forced induction, then you have a whole new process to deal with......and that is the PCV system works properly when at idle & non-boost, but when you start making boost you have switched from the intake manifold being negative atmosphere to a pressurized component and the PCV system is rendered useless and pressure escapes wherever it can. The solution then is to have one way check valves inline so the vacuum need for proper evacuation comes from in front of the compressor (head unit) through a line run to the air filter.

    This is getting a bit long and I hope all can follow this, but if not ask me specific questions for clarification so this helps all. I'll go over every type of solution and the pros & cons of each....and remember, this problem is NOT just in the GM LS based engines, but is an issue with ALL modern closed systems. We just tear into our cars where as the Mercedes or Lincoln owner never even realizes there is an issue.

    I also wanted to address the water in the oil. You will NOT fill your crankcase up in short order with just breathers. What happens is each time your engine reaches operating temp the unburnt fuel, water vapor, combustion by-products will gas or "flash-off" as vapor. But only the excess crankcase pressure being relieved through the breather will carry any of that out....and without a proper evac system, a good amount remains in the crankcase and re-condenses back to droplets that coat the internal engine parts as your motor cools down and it contaminates the oil. Every time you heat cycle you are adding more contamination and it is not very visible to just "look" at your oil....you need a professional analysis to see just what is accumulating in your oil and how it is breaking down its ability to protect...but the corrosion from the sulfuric acid is also very damaging over time (I'll try to post up some pics of parts showing just this in the near future). Just pull the dipstick on a diesel 20 miles after an oil change...it already "looks" black & dirty, but is still new and providing the proper protection. Sight is deceiving. Oil might look pretty clean or dirty but an analysis report will show destructive levels of contaminants.

    And finally, some have gone so far as to cap off the entire system and run an open hose from each valve cover to near the ground. While this will eliminate all oil getting into the intake via the PCV system, the damage done by the hose with the least amount of air moving past it while at speed will suck dirt/sand/dust/water/and who knows what else directly into the motor via that valve cover. It may take some time (depending on how clean the roads you drive on are) but will result in premature engine wear & failure.

    The solution for the street crowd is a properly designed, good functioning oil separating catchcan. Many are available on the market, but ONLY ones designed with internal baffling and a good distance separating the inlet from the outlet. Many of the cans seen for low prices on Ebay, etc. are great looking, but are nothing but empty cans with two fittings attached. Do your homework & get a full understanding before you make your selection.


    Below I will post pictures and try and explain.....first, most cans are a simple empty container with 2 fittings. They will collect oil the same as a beer can will, but most gets drawn through and still enters your intake air charge.

    Next are the air compressor tiny plastic separators...the flow can never slow enough for the oil to fall out of supension and even though they catch oil, most is still pulled through.

    Then the more expensive ones have very little effective function in their design, but do work far better. Again, the biggest issue is the small size. The flow, or veocity of the vapors traveling through any container is directly affected by the internal volumn of that container.

    Take a 3/8" hose and put a teaspon of water in it....now blow on one end. All the water (or any fluid) is carriedout of the hose due to the speed of the flow (think dentist suction tube whe you close your mouth...all fluid is sucked out). Now take a 3/4" hose the same length, and add the same teaspoon of water and no matter how hard you blow on it only a few drops will exit...the rest stays in the hose. Same principal. The oil laden crankcase vapors traveling through most catchcans never slow enough for the oil to fall out of suspension. The same with and coalescing medium....if the flow is to fast, the oil trapped simply flows right through and you have addressed only a portion of the issue.

    To test ANY catch can, simply go to any autoparts store and buy ($10) a glass inline fuel filter and install it between the can outlet and the intake manifold. In short order the filter will saturate with the oil pulled through the inefective cans (and even most pricy ones are poor performers).

    Look into any can and see the design and think about how it functions:

    Here is a common ebay can and also branded by many vendors....looks fine right?



    Now look at the cutaway....an empty can no different than a beer can would be.....the vapors mostlu enter one fitting and U turn right out. Only the vapors that are able to swirl around and cool to condense the suspened oil will allow it to trap any oil....and it will trap some as any container. but most still enters your intake air charge and you have cured nothing other than phsycologically.


  14. #29
    SC2150's Avatar
    SC2150 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): CTS
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Palmetto, FL
    Age
    57
    Posts
    1,544

    Re: Oil Catch can update

    Second half:

    Below, the can on the left is very popular and is branded by about a dozen or so labels....Mike Norris, CCA, catchcans.com, etc. This design allthough still far to small to allow the velocity to slow enough for real effective separation has a small chamber the vapors travel through and oil coalesces and then drips down to be trapped for draining later. This simple addition makes this can much more effective and it will catch 80% or so on most cars. The chamber should be longer so the oil droplets are not sucked out the outlet which is only 1 " from where the drops fall, and the size should be app twice what it is to allow the flow to slow enogh that drops are not sucked out the outlet.

    The can on the right is the cheapo shown above, but the can above it is the AMW (Elite is very similar) and you can see it has a coalescing chamber 4 times the red can, and the outlet is 2" from the bottom of the chamber where the oil drops are falling to be contained.....this design is one of the best out there except the overall size/volumn is still app 1/2 of what is needed to ensure droplets are not sucked out the outlet.



    Below is what most will see if they remove their TB and look inside the IM:


    Next are several side by side with and early RX can on the far left. It shows vapors entering the center perforated dispersion tube, traveling into the diverter cylinder where the vapors begin to condense before entering the condensing chamber where the vapors further cool and the flow has slowed enough for the droplets to fall out of suspension. Then they have to travel along the outer surface cooling even further before having to travel past the disc baffel before entering the outlet chamber and then exit through a flow controlling oneway (PCV) checkvalve.(I will post pictures of the current design that adds an additional coalescing chamber before the condensing chamber and this design has no equal catching and trapping 99% plus of the oil leavin no detectabl oil ingestion into the intake air charge)

    The can just to the right is the Moroso/Billet Prototypes/Diablo sport/etc. (again, a dozen or so vendors brand this can). It is one of the nicest in appearance and quality of materials and percision machined......but it is again, app 1/4 the size needed to allow the flow to slow enough for the oil to drop out of supension, and it has NO designated inlet or outlet. The mesh media is in chambers tight against both the inlet & outlet. The side you use as the inlet this is fine as oil will coalesce and form droplets, but do to the small internal volumn it pulls much of that oil into the outlet side mesh and holds it against the outlet allowing 30-40% of the oil to still pull right through and into your intake. To demonstrate this youself...do the galss filter test, or take a wash cloth and soak it in water. Now place a straw against it and suck....water will pull right through from the staurated washcloth. To improve this units funtion, remove the media from the side you will use as the outlet and then more of the droplets will fall to the bottom to be trapped further from the outlet. But even with this mod, as small as it is go back to the hose test. at best 20% plus will still pull through this style due to the poor design.

    Now just to the right is a billet can that looks awesome again.....it is large enough to work great, but open it up and there is NOTHING inside.....so most vapors again just do a U turn and goe right out the outlet.








    Below is the current revison the the RX oil separating crankcase evac system can being assembled:






    And both the standard unit on the right for up to 600 hp, and the "Monster can" on the left for up to 1200 hp:

    Drying after paint:


    Typical installation N/A or top mount SC:


    And trubo or front mount centri SC:



    I have been doing this for over 38 years and we purchase every can that comes on the market. We test all on the same shop vehicles with the pull through filter test over the same amount of driving to judge the amount caught and let through, then dissasemble/cut away and examine how and why they do or do not work well.

    remember, take a beer can and add 2 fittings and it will catch as much oil as many of the cans you see for sale.....but the goal is to prevent ANY oil ingestion so just becasue you open or drain a poorley functioning can and there is oil is no indication of its effectiveness, it is what is pulled through and past any can that matters, and the biggest name brand on it is meaningless.

    Here is what we have found over 9 years of testing these as far as the best functioning that I would consider using:

    #1 RX Performance products catching 99% plus of oil in all but motors with piston/ring/cylinder damage.

    #2 Saikou Micchi catching 95% plus.

    #3 & 4 tied, Elite Engineering and the AMW catching 90% plus

    #5 the Mike Norris/CCA/etc. catching 80% to 90%.

    All the above functioned well enough in tests that I would endorse each as ones I would (and have ) use(d) with confidance, but not a single can on the market has the complex and functional design the RX can does.....not even close even though several worked nearly as good.

    So, cheaping out or paying top dollar does not get you a good functioning can in many instances.....take the time to understand the issue, why it is as it is, and how these cans work (or dont work) and then ask yourself what you want...a bandaid or a solution.

  15. #30
    SC2150's Avatar
    SC2150 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): CTS
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Palmetto, FL
    Age
    57
    Posts
    1,544

    Re: Oil Catch can update

    Quote Originally Posted by ShapeShifter View Post
    Several of us guys with supercharged engines use an L&S Oil Separator to prevent oil from being sucked into our TB, Intake and Intercooler Systems where it clogs them and then contributes to engine detonation.. Sometimes with catastrophic consequences. This particular separator allows for evacuation of crankcase gases, but most importantly it allows for the return of the oil back to the engine for continued lubrication. It's maintenance free, which I believe most catch cans require you manually service. One big difference with the L&S is it has the PCV valve in the loop and our 3.6L incorporates a PCV Orifice. Ideally, I wouldn't mind having a similar maintenance free separator for my CTS. If interested you can read about the L&S Oil Separator @ http://www.lnsauto.com/articles/ford..._article.shtml

    Our issues just got me wondering if a product like this could be adapted to meet or needs. So I thought, why not toss it out there?

    Oh, for give if I'm way off the mark here, was only thinking of more possible alternatives.
    The L&S sytem works pretty well with one serios flaw.....it returns the contaminate laden oil to the crankcase where it accelerates the engine wear.

    This is another area most do not understand...you MUST remove the damaging combustion byproducts from the crankcase, not reintroduce them:

    Understanding oil contamination from combustion byproducts




    The evac system is not for the environment....it is to keep the engine alive and wear free as long as possible. Your not alone and 99% of car owners never think about it or realize whats happening over time. And yes, most will drive 50-75-100k plus miles and never know the damage gradually being done.

    My qualifications?

    over 35 years building race and performance engines.
    Mechanical & Automotive engineer by trade
    Graduate of the Reher Morrison Racing engine building school (one of the most respected in the world and a GM R&D contractor).
    Owner and driver of drag teams with multiple Divisional, National & World championships in both NHRA & IHRA in several classes (this is where every minute detail in an engine matters)
    And I tear down and build most every kind/brand of motor imaginable (except diesel) on a weekly basis.

    So here goes:

    Every motor has a certain amount of blow-by, the bigger the CI & the more boost the more blow-by (with everything else assumed is equal and no piston/ring/cylinder issue).

    Most only look at the crankcase pressure portion and deal with that and that is only a small part of the crankcase evac systems function. The most important is the flushing & removal of the harmful combustion products before they have a chance to condense & settle into the crankcase oil.

    These consist of:

    Unburnt fuel
    Carbon monoxide
    water vapor
    carbon particles
    and several other harmful compounds that when mixed in the crankcase produce Sulfuric acid and as that accumulates past a certain PPM the bearing surfaces, wrist pins, and crank journals begin to be etched and start to damage. This is gradual of course so that’s why like you, most never realize whats happening.

    The other very harmful byproduct is the very abrasive carbon particles (near diamond-like in abrasiveness) that many are to small to be caught by the oil filter and accelerate wear as well.

    If you have a good cross flow of filtered fresh air entering one side of the crankcase (best is through a flow controlled breather), say the pass side oil fill cap, that fresh air will travel through the pass side valve cover, around the rockers, down the pushrod valley, through the center of the crankcase, (now on the LS6/2/3 valley cover with the fixed orifice it exits there drawn by vacuum so 1/2 the engine is still stagnant with foul compounds...especially the drivers side rocker area) up the drivers side pushrod valley, past the rockers and exits the rear of the drivers side valve cover flushing and pulling the compounds out BEFORE they can settle and condense into the crankcase. Now with out that flow the compounds settle and mix with the oil every time the engine cools. When started and run to operating temp the volatile of those are "flashed off" and again could be evacuated but if just venting with breathers, ONLY the excess crankcase pressure will exit and very little of the harmful compound mix goes with it and once the abrasive carbon particles mix with the oil they are there to stay reducing the protection your oil provides. Now if changing your oil after every track event then this is not an issue. But with a street driven car it is and I can tell you to just look at how dirt your oil gets as far as coloration when you eliminate the evacuation portion of a PCV system, but that tells very little. Send in an oil sample to a good analysis lab and the report back will verify everything I'm saying. The over the road trucking industry does this as a rule, and we do with our race engines as well looking for metal content that tells us a bearing is going away before we could ever detect it and knowing to freshen before a catastrophic failure.

    Now back to the LS engine. Any built, big cube, or FI motor cannot breath using the valley cover fixed orifice as it is far to restrictive and excess pressure is a given. So we never use the valley cover vent tube but draw from the rear of the drivers side valve cover.

    Now we come to the issue of FI builds that pressurize the intake manifold. Turbo or front mount centri SC systems, the problem with the OEM style system is as soon as you are under boost and the intake is under positive atmosphere you are pressurizing the crankcase directly via the vacuum nipple that evacs under non boost.

    The only true solution for street driven cars is a oil separating crankcase evac system that will provide proper, continuous evac while operating under non-boost via the intake vacuum, and as soon as it senses pressurization a check valve senses this and closes blocking any chance of crankcase pressurization. Then as this happens a secondary valve opens and uses the suction/vacuum of the head unit to continue evacuation while the separating can traps & removes all the oil in suspension allowing only the gasses that do not effect the energy released per explosive event (you do NOT want ANY oil entering the intake air charge or residue/varnish forming on the compressor wheels throwing them off balance).

    No oil caused detonation, no shortened engine life/increased wear, and the best of everything you need for the motor to perform properly & last as long as possible.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting