05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons) - Page 7
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Cadillac CTS First Generation Forum - 2003 - 2007 Discussion, 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons) in Cadillac CTS Coupe, Sport Sedan and Sport Wagon Forums; Originally Posted by 74chvy glasshouse when it does make the rattle it goes away on its own without tapping the ...
  1. #91
    ktr-sb is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Quote Originally Posted by 74chvy glasshouse View Post
    when it does make the rattle it goes away on its own without tapping the gas.
    Sounds just like mine did before replacing the cap.


    Quote Originally Posted by 74chvy glasshouse View Post
    well ill give it a shot and do it anyways its cheaper than chains
    My thinking exactly.

  2. #92
    bobcat68 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Quote Originally Posted by ktr-sb View Post
    Nice pics. I am trying to study the oil consumption issue, and why drilling out the PCV orifice fitting might make a difference. Could I ask a huge favor? Could you take some well-lighted pics of the passenger's side block, of the drainback holes in the very rear of the block? I am trying to figure out if there is something down there that slings oil up the head. Thanks in advance.
    I'll be interested in what you find out. I've read all the posts from drilling the PCV, to using an oil catchcan, and putting a baffle in the valve cover. Here are some photos of the passenger side block end passages. These are as good as I could get quickly.

    IMG_0393.jpg IMG_0394.JPG

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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Here are some more photos.

    IMG_0397.JPG

    IMG_0395.JPG

  4. #94
    ktr-sb is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Quote Originally Posted by bobcat68 View Post
    Here are some more photos.
    Cool, thanks!

  5. #95
    74chvy glasshouse is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    thanks ktr

  6. #96
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    My timing cover is back on, new oil put in and everything is in working order. I didn't see any leaks or issues. There are no service engine lights or codes popping up. I'm not mechanically inclined but this was not a difficult job if you have the the right tools/parts and patience. I did most of the work and the mechanic gave me directions, and helped with the hard stuff. (alternator, crankshaft pulley, power steering bracket and setting the timing) I'll give an update when we put the accessories back on.

    P.S. this post helped a lot for reference. Thanks Doug NC

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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    This thread is excellent...showing every step. On post #72 though it shows the valves all gunked up from the oil ingestion, yet I was shown a picture showing one w/160,000 miles on that shwed them like new in another thread......Hmm.

    Here are what the intake valves on a DI motor with 8 k miles look like:




    and the piston tops:



    The pictures showing the effects of not running full synthetic are an eye opener as well.

    Great job all that put this thread together.


  8. #98
    ktr-sb is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Quote Originally Posted by SC2150 View Post
    This thread is excellent...showing every step. On post #72 though it shows the valves all gunked up from the oil ingestion, yet I was shown a picture showing one w/160,000 miles on that shwed them like new in another thread......Hmm.
    These are not from the same angle, so we don't know what the other side of these valves look like. And we don't know what kind of gasoline was used, or what kind of oil. Doesn't change the fact that my intake valves were clean on the intake side after 160K+ miles of using mostly Shell premium, mostly synthetic, and occasional Berryman's or Techron. Pictures of those valves were posted 7 months ago for anyone who was following my timing chain repair to see. Proving, of course, that you don't need anything other than good maintenance to keep the inside of these engines clean.

    Quote Originally Posted by SC2150 View Post
    Here are what the intake valves on a DI motor with 8 k miles look like:


    I would caution anyone relying on these two photos, or the third, similar one in this poster's photobucket album, to prove anything. If you check the photo's info, it doesn't list a camera, but "CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using I..." This is an indication that the images may have been photoshopped or otherwise processed.

    Don't know why this guy called me a liar, but it seems that he is threatened by the truth that you don't need a catch can to keep the inside of your engine clean.

  9. #99
    ktr-sb is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Quote Originally Posted by bobcat68 View Post
    I'll be interested in what you find out. I've read all the posts from drilling the PCV, to using an oil catchcan, and putting a baffle in the valve cover.
    Catch can is clearly not necessary - additional posters have done the drilling mod since I have, and they also claim it fixed oil consumption. After looking at everything, I think it is pretty clear the ring for the crank sensor is slinging the oil up into the orifice.

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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Oh, and get ready for the cut and paste link dump.

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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    I pretty much had decided to do the PCV mod. With the heads still at the machine shop, it's an easy mod to do with the engine apart and also cheap. All I have to do now is make sure I get the pistons and cams in stage I and stage II relationships when I get the heads back on and put the chains in place. I only bent the valves in one cylinder so they will be replaced.

  12. #102
    ktr-sb is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Quote Originally Posted by bobcat68 View Post
    I pretty much had decided to do the PCV mod.
    I'd strongly recommend replacing the oil filter housing cap as well - it has a bypass valve in it, and when I replaced mine, it eliminated all remaining noise at startup. The valve itself is replaceable, $30 vs about $6, but I like the shiny new cap, lol.

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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    And here is a picture of the vehicle that is actually the subject of this thread, showing just what mine did - light carbon except where the injectors were spraying.


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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    And you still want to argue about a catchcan not needed with all these pictures showing it is a must. The valve tupis (port side) are where the build up has a negative effect on the volumetric efficiency.
    With a catchcan none of these deposits will be present as you are stopping it before it causes the buildup seen. You just wont give up trying to mislead people here will you.

    Clean valves are a must. The engine is designed with the shape of the ports and valve tulips to be as effieciant as possible, yet you claim these deposits are fine?

    Amazing the level you are stooping to to confuse those that want to keep their engine running like new.

    If there is anyone that actually wants to learn more, ask details and I will provide any data needed, but common sense should prevail here just by looking at these pictures. Gunk up your valves and the ports leading to them and you have decreased the ability for the air to flow as designed thus less power and poor fuel economy.

    The drill mod is a good contribution....we have been posting this for over 2 years.....you have no debate from me on that, but this is beyond any wild imagination. The deposits are bad for the power and efficiency of any motor.

  15. #105
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Directly from GM:



    Engnineering Systems


    Cadillac Owners Member


    Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2


    Re: How to Clean The PCV tube on 05' CTS 3.6



    I usually lurk in the background, but this is getting out of hand. SC2150 has the up-most knowledge on this matter and I have personally been to his shop and inspected engines both with and without catch cans. It is in fact a fact that without fuel spraying on the valve stems that they will in fact lose efficiency and need cleaning, this is published by GM.


    Service Information
    Home Publications Number Search New Bulletins Bulletin Search Feedback Help
    2011 Cadillac CTS | CTS VIN D Service Manual | Document ID: 2863222
    #PIP5029: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And/Or Exhaust Valves - (May 29, 2012)
    Subject: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And/Or Exhaust Valves

    Models: 2008 - 2012 Cadillac CTS, STS
    2008 - 2010 Chevrolet Cobalt SS, HHR SS
    2007 - 2010 Pontiac Solstice GXP
    2007 - 2010 Saturn Sky Redline
    2009 - 2012 Buick Enclave
    2009 - 2012 Buick Lacrosse
    2009 - 2012 Chevrolet Traverse
    2009 - 2012 GMC Acadia
    2009 Saturn Outlook
    2010 - 2012 Cadillac SRX
    2010 - 2012 Chevrolet Camaro, Equinox
    2010 - 2012 GMC Terrain
    With any of the Following Direct Injected Gasoline Engines:
    2.0 (RPO LNF)
    2.4L (RPO LAF, LEA, or LUK)
    2.8L (RPO LAU)
    3.0L (RPO LF1)
    3.6L (RPO LFX or LLT)

    The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
    Condition/Concern:

    Some customers may complain of a MIL and engine misfire. In some cases, the misfire may be more apparent on a cold start, may count on a single cylinder or several cylinders, and may or may not be felt by the driver. Upon inspection, the technician will find one or more misfire codes (DTC P0300-P0306) stored in the ECM and SI diagnosis may or may not isolate the cause of the misfire depending on whether the intake/exhaust valves are sticking at the time of the diagnosis.

    This may be the result of major carbon build up on the intake and/or exhaust valves as shown below so the misfires should not have appeared until the engine has accumulated around 5,000 miles or more.





    .







    Recommendation/Instructions:

    If this concern is encountered, perform SI diagnosis. If SI diagnosis isolates a valve sealing concern and/or eliminates everything else external to the engine, decarbon the engine with Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner by following the guidelines below:

    Important Extreme care must be taken not to hydrolock the engine when inducing the cleaner, especially if it is induced without Kent Moore Tool # J-35800-A. If too much cleaner is induced at too low of a RPM, or if you force the engine to stall by inducing too much cleaner at once, the engine may hydrolock and bend a connecting rod(s).
    1. In a well-ventilated area with the engine at operating temperature, slowly/carefully induce a bottle of GM Upper Engine and Fuel Injection Cleaner into the engine with RPM off of idle enough to prevent it from stalling (typically around 2,000 RPM or so). Depending on the engine configuration, induce the cleaner through the throttle body or an engine vacuum hose/pipe. For best results, it is suggested to induce the cleaner with Kent Moore Tool # J-35800-A (shown below).
    2. Turn the engine off after inducing the cleaner and allow the cleaner to soak with the engine off for 2.5 to 3 hours (Do not let cleaner soak for more than 3 hours as remaining deposits may start to harden back up again).
    3. Add a bottle of GM Fuel System Treatment Plus to the fuel tank and fill the vehicle with one of the Top Tier gasolines listed at http://www.toptiergas.com and/or in the latest version of 04-06-04-047 (USA) or 05-06-04-022 (Canada). See Bulletin 05-00-89-078 for more details on GM Fuel System Treatment Plus.
    4. Test drive the vehicle extensively to circulate the GM Fuel System Treatment Plus, which will help to eliminate/reduce any remaining intake valve deposits.
    5. Re-evaluate the concern to determine if it is repaired or improved at all. If the concern is improved but not repaired, it may be necessary to perform the above decarboning process a 2nd time.



    6. To complete the repairs, advise the customer to only use one of the Top Tier Gasolines listed at http://www.toptiergas.com and/or in the latest version of 04-06-04-047 (USA) or 05-06-04-022 (Canada) to minimize future deposits. It can also be recommended to add a bottle of GM Fuel System Treatment Plus at every oil change as mentioned in the latest version of 04-06-04-051.
    Kent Moore Tool # J-35800-A
    Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner

    Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

    GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.


    WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION
    © 2012 General Motors. All rights reserved.

    By utilizing the catch can you will reduce to eliminate most of the deposits that build up on the valve stems, I have had one on my engine now for quite a while and using a bore light I have seen very little to no build up, and especially I have not had to have this costly cleaning done. If I had not had this catch can I would have spent over twice the cost for upper induction cleanings. I am in the Industry and see the added benefit of using this system. SO before you try and dis-credit SC2150 you better have a lot more than your un-proven opinion and back up your shortcomings with real world facts.

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