05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons) - Page 4
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Cadillac CTS First Generation Forum - 2003 - 2007 Discussion, 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons) in Cadillac CTS Coupe, Sport Sedan and Sport Wagon Forums; What's the thought behind replacing the water pump and thermostat? Is it just because the pump comes off as part ...
  1. #46
    Meatstick62's Avatar
    Meatstick62 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    What's the thought behind replacing the water pump and thermostat? Is it just because the pump comes off as part of the timing chain job and because the thermostat is easily accessible during this process? Or, are these actually considered wear items?

  2. #47
    X Rolls-Royce is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    They fail so while you're there, replace them. You don't have to squeeze every possible mile out of auto parts. The extra labor is negligible at that point, but changing 10000 miles later and its gonna hurt your purse. If only I'd have changed it when I did the chain...you don't want that to happen.

  3. #48
    74chvy glasshouse is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    would timing chain problems affect starting ?? i think its my battery sometimes it cranks over a couple times before it starts

  4. #49
    X Rolls-Royce is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Yeh, timing chains affect starting.

    For the engine to start, it has to have compression, proper fuel/air mixture, and spark at the exact perfect TIME. The timing chains establish when the valves are perfectly closed so that the compression is at or near its peak. So if the spark is occuring before or after the compression peak, it is not going to start the first time around. The ECM can make up for alot of slop though.

    A dirty air filter or dirty throttle body and butterfly can cause slow starting too. A weak battery shouldn't affect the actual ignition part of starting, up to a point. If everything else is perfect, as long as there is charge enough in the battery to supply a spark, the engine should fire the first time it tries.
    Argent1 and Argent1 like this.

  5. #50
    74chvy glasshouse is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    im gonna replace the battery and see what happens i think it might not have enough reserve amps it would happen more when i had the headlights on when unlock option on. and if i have the doors open for too long without the car on the interior lights seem to dim

  6. #51
    X Rolls-Royce is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Those lights dimming might mean that the energy saver feature kicked in to save enough battery charge to get it started.

  7. #52
    apribby is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Just tackled the tear-down of my '04 CTS 3.6L yesterday, only 90,000 miles. Labor wasn't as bad as I thought. This post certainly helped out a bunch. Most annoying part of dis-assembly for me was the alternator (~20 minutes to wiggle the thing enough to get the 10mm nut on the back). But then again, I haven't re-timed the engine yet (still waiting on the timing set to come in).

    I really didn't have any noticeable rattling or oil consumption. What I did have was a whine when the rpms went above like 1500. With the hood open, standing at the front of the car, and revving to about 1500rpms or higher, it just sounded like a scraping, roaring, whine. Idling at 600-700 rpms though, the noise was unnoticeable.

    From the inside of the car, driving with the hood closed, it turns into more of a whine than anything else. But with the hood open and standing out front or passing through a tunnel, it sounded like a bad pulley bearing or something to that effect. When I removed the tensioner/guide for the primary chain, the attached picture is what i found.

    Seems to have the same pitting that Doug in NC had. Wonder why this happens/if this is causing that noise. Guess I'll know in a few days
    Attached Images

  8. #53
    bobcat68 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    I've gotten to the point I'm going to remove the heads to have them rebuilt (a la briggy). My chain broke. here are some photos of the chain and chain guides I removed.

    IMG_0369.JPG
    IMG_0370.JPG

  9. #54
    Y3E
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Wow, great thread Doug. Thanks for posting the pics. Too bad I don't live near you.

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    ktr-sb is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Not to hijack this thread, but for those searching (and not to toot my own horn, but it does have 10K+ views), here is another pix-intensive DIY: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...pics-step.html

  11. #56
    ktr-sb is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Quote Originally Posted by bobcat68 View Post
    I've gotten to the point I'm going to remove the heads to have them rebuilt (a la briggy). My chain broke. here are some photos of the chain and chain guides I removed.
    Wow. I would seriously recommend the shop remove and replace the oil check valves in the head. I am very curious about this engine - mileage, how long you had it, how long it was making the terrible racket it must have been making, OCIs, oil selection. Any way you could get us some pix of the broken link, the outside of the chain, and the sprocket teeth? I would seriously consider a rebuild, with new camshaft actuators. And don't forget a new oil bypass check valve for the oil filter cap.

  12. #57
    ktr-sb is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Quote Originally Posted by apribby View Post
    Most annoying part of dis-assembly for me was the alternator (~20 minutes to wiggle the thing enough to get the 10mm nut on the back).
    I know it's too late for you, but for others, it is not necessary to remove the alternator first. Just remove the bracket and displace the assembly. At least, on my SRX, this worked, and I doubt there are any differences that would require a different procedure. Also, you don't have to remove the PCM from the bracket, or disconnect it. Finally, no disrespect to Doug, I found it easier to remove the intake manifold as one piece, disconnecting the fuel line at the rear, and not disturbing the injectors.

  13. #58
    ktr-sb is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Quote Originally Posted by apribby View Post
    Just tackled the tear-down of my '04 CTS 3.6L yesterday, only 90,000 miles.
    Lol. Count your blessings. Timing belt replacement on VW TDI is a called-for maintenance at 80K miles and costs roughly the same. Few have the tools or expertise to do it in their driveway.

    Quote Originally Posted by apribby View Post
    I really didn't have any noticeable rattling or oil consumption.
    Interesting. Are you sure there weren't a few seconds after the engine had been sitting a while when it sounded like lifters pumping up?


    Quote Originally Posted by apribby View Post
    What I did have was a whine when the rpms went above like 1500.

    *SNIP*

    Wonder why this happens/if this is causing that noise.
    I wish I could recall what mine sounded like at 90K. By the time it got to 161K, the noise was audible at idle. What I think most likely you were hearing was the sound of excessive clearance between the chain and the sprockets, or the sound of a loose chain rubbing against the guides. Do you see things like this?

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ml#post2788642

  14. #59
    bobcat68 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    The engine has 155,000 miles on it. We bought the car new. My wife drove it until we gave it to my daughter. She has driven it for the last 2 years. The oil was changed according to the DIC with Mobile 1 until my daughter got the car and she was putting in regular oil. The engine rattle on starting about 1 1/2 years ago. Normally we bumped the throttle and it went away. The car was using about a quart of oil every other fill up. The car began to run bad so I took it to a shop and they said it was a chain guide and repaired it for me. Ha! I wish I'd known about this problem and forum before the engine got bad. Obviously it wasn't repaired. Ktr-sb, your photos have been a tremendous help and have given me the confidence to tackle the rebuild. With briggy and simple 2me write-ups and photos I feel the rebuild is doable. Right now I can't figure out how to get the catalytic converters off so I can pull the heads. I'm not buying any parts until I pull the heads to have them looked at. I can't find a decent low milage LY7 at a good price. I'd rather rebuild what I have than spend money on a high milage engine.

  15. #60
    apribby is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 05 CTS 3.6L Timing Chain Job, Tons-o-pics (I mean tons)

    Quote Originally Posted by ktr-sb View Post
    I know it's too late for you, but for others, it is not necessary to remove the alternator first. Just remove the bracket and displace the assembly. At least, on my SRX, this worked, and I doubt there are any differences that would require a different procedure. Also, you don't have to remove the PCM from the bracket, or disconnect it. Finally, no disrespect to Doug, I found it easier to remove the intake manifold as one piece, disconnecting the fuel line at the rear, and not disturbing the injectors.
    HaHa yea I saw that on another post after I had already gotten it out. O well... I did disconnect the fuel rail at the back as well though...found that much easier as well


    Quote Originally Posted by ktr-sb View Post
    I wish I could recall what mine sounded like at 90K. By the time it got to 161K, the noise was audible at idle. What I think most likely you were hearing was the sound of excessive clearance between the chain and the sprockets, or the sound of a loose chain rubbing against the guides. Do you see things like this?

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ml#post2788642
    The pic I posted was the worst of it, certainly not as bad as some of your guides. Then again, my noise wasn't noticeable at idle. So you think the chain probably stretched and allowed too much play? When I get the new one, I'll compare the lengths of the chains.

    Attached pictures show the bank 2 intake gear and primary gear with what looks like a bit of wear on the outsides of the gears and grooves of the primary. Not sure if this is normal or not

    C360_2012-06-26-18-27-09 (1024x768).jpg

    C360_2012-06-26-18-27-32 (1024x768) (800x600).jpg

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