04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID
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Cadillac CTS First Generation Forum - 2003 - 2007 Discussion, 04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID in Cadillac CTS Coupe, Sport Sedan and Sport Wagon Forums; Fist Caddy has invented a noise that I have never heard from an engine. My CTS started a faint tapping ...
  1. #1
    gsnickle is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID



    Fist Caddy has invented a noise that I have never heard from an engine. My CTS started a faint tapping sound that moved to a sound that makes it sound like a diesel engine in a matter of minutes. I could not stop at the time to investigate, but it made it home (about 20 miles). The engine is the oddball 3.2 with the 5 speed auto with 136k on it.

    I have a great deal of experience working with Pontiac (real Pontiac) and chevy small blocks. I race a 87 Fiero with a 3.4l TDC that I swapped in. The problem is that the engine does not feel like it is down on power too much, the noise sounds like it is coming from the passenger side cams. It revs up and down with engine speed, but volume does not seem to be affected much with RPM. The engine does crank significantly longer at start-up, and has a rougher idle than normal after it enters closed loop operation. The problem with the sound is that is sounds like it is 1 to 1 with RPM. Normally in a pushrod engine this would mean crank or rod bearings. But I am fairly sure the sound is coming from the cylender head area.

    Has anybody heard of this? I would guess (and that is all it would be with this engine) that it is lifters, broken valve springs, bent valves or the like. The second thing is, does anybody know where to find a top end rebuild kit if it is a top end problem, or an engine rebuild kit if it is a bottom end problem.

    Your help is appreciated

    thanx
    Garth

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  3. #2
    gsnickle is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID

    Really? No one here gives a damn about helping a real mechanical problem out?

  4. #3
    TunixComplex is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID

    Give it some time the people around here have jobs and families someone with the knowledge and experience to help you will post eventually. I have had posts that didn't get picked up for a few days.

    Next time just reply with the word "bump" after a day or so of waiting but don't do this too often.

  5. #4
    txbest1980's Avatar
    txbest1980 is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: 04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID

    OP...are you leaking oil or can you tell that you are leaking oil? check on each side of the block and if you have time, pull the upper intake manifold off and check that vlave covers. the valve covers are known to come a little loose on this engine and the screws may need to be tightened up...im not stating this is your problem, but if it sounds like valves, this could possibly cure it...

    if it doesnt, then we can go from there

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    gsnickle is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID

    Well I have not taken the intake off yet, but I can tell you that the oil level maintains the same level, and I have never seen it loose more than .25 quart over 5000 miles. So I am going to guess right now that the engine is not leaking oil. I plan to pull the coils off today and take a look at the plugs and perform a compression and leakdown test. I should know more by Sat.

    I have done a bit of checking, and apparently I need a GM V6 cam tool kit to be able to remove the cams. I could not find a full kit for less than $400. Is there anyplace that I can find one (that includes the 30mm spanner) for less? I am not afraid of mechanical work, but I do not have any knowledge of how to work on this particular one. Guess I should have bought a V and then I would know how to work on it.

    thanx
    Garth

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    gsnickle is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID

    Well, got the intake off and the driver's side cam cover. No oil in the intake, and just a little near the throtle body. All the bolts were tight, and the cams on the driver's side have plenty of oil on and around them. I have run into a small snag getting the metal bracket off of the top of the passenger side (the one that has the computer mounted to it). I cannot seem to fit a star socket down to where bolts hold the bracket down under the head (just above the exhaust). Is there a trick to reaching these? I know that I had to take the fender liner out of the drivers side wheel well to get to my 91 S-10 spark plugs. Is this a similar case? I went searching for a haynes manual today, but nobody has it for this year car. Help would be appreciated.

    thanx
    Garth

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    bobrules is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID

    faint tapping that increases with rpm. difference in sound between when cold and hot?

    buddy built a small block 350 with a used block and didn't get his bores drilled .030 over first time, ended up with piston slap that made it sound like a diesel.

    more likely issue would be valvetrain related, no pushrods or id say its a loose rocker. before i start pulling parts out id cut the oil filter open and look for metal. that'll tell you for sure if something wore down and now the tolerance is off enough to cause noise.

  9. #8
    Joe
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    Re: 04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID

    How did that compression test come out?

  10. #9
    gsnickle is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID

    Well I am still looking for a way to get the computer bracket off of the passenger side of the cam cover. Untill I get that off I cannot get the coil pack off of that side of the engine. The sound seems to be coming from that side of the engine. I am thinking that I have a bad lifter of a broken valve spring and the cam is slapping the lifter. The sound increases in frequency with rpm, but not really any volume change. The sound seems to get a small bit quieter when the engine warms up, but not much.

    Any ideas how to get the bracket off without pulling the engine? I see the European design hands on this engine...nothing is where you can reach it! I cannot believe that you have to tear the engine down to a long block to change plugs!

    thanx
    Garth

  11. #10
    chico is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID

    bump

  12. #11
    bobrules is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID

    picture of the spot youre trying to get to?

    ive had to have people fab me custom wrenches to reach certain bolts sometimes.

  13. #12
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    Re: 04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID

    you just have to reach in there with a small wrench or small ratchet and socket...i have done this several times and decided after the thrid time of doing it that i no longer needed that bolt so i tossed it just because it is a pain in the butt to get out and in time after time...

  14. #13
    gsnickle is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID

    I was afraid you were going to say that. I am on the road again this week, but will have some more time this weekend to work on the fine piece of engineering. I love that I have a job, but does it have to have 300 days of travel a year? Too bad I cannot make the same money working on hotrods!

    I will update all of you this weekend. Thanks for all the help so far.

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    Re: 04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID

    Quote Originally Posted by txbest1980 View Post
    you just have to reach in there with a small wrench or small ratchet and socket...i have done this several times and decided after the thrid time of doing it that i no longer needed that bolt so i tossed it just because it is a pain in the butt to get out and in time after time...


    and its a giant PITA to get to. I think it was 2 of them with an 8mm.

  16. #15
    ghettomike's Avatar
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    Re: 04 CTS 3.2 making an engine noise that I cannot ID

    Quote Originally Posted by gsnickle View Post
    Well, got the intake off and the driver's side cam cover. No oil in the intake, and just a little near the throtle body. All the bolts were tight, and the cams on the driver's side have plenty of oil on and around them. I have run into a small snag getting the metal bracket off of the top of the passenger side (the one that has the computer mounted to it). I cannot seem to fit a star socket down to where bolts hold the bracket down under the head (just above the exhaust). Is there a trick to reaching these? I know that I had to take the fender liner out of the drivers side wheel well to get to my 91 S-10 spark plugs. Is this a similar case? I went searching for a haynes manual today, but nobody has it for this year car. Help would be appreciated.

    thanx
    Garth
    i know the pain of the s truck plugs.. on my 02 4.3 i changed 1 from the engine bay and the other 5 were all from under the truck...how dumb of a design was that.

    Quote Originally Posted by gsnickle View Post
    Well I have not taken the intake off yet, but I can tell you that the oil level maintains the same level, and I have never seen it loose more than .25 quart over 5000 miles. So I am going to guess right now that the engine is not leaking oil. I plan to pull the coils off today and take a look at the plugs and perform a compression and leakdown test. I should know more by Sat.

    I have done a bit of checking, and apparently I need a GM V6 cam tool kit to be able to remove the cams. I could not find a full kit for less than $400. Is there anyplace that I can find one (that includes the 30mm spanner) for less? I am not afraid of mechanical work, but I do not have any knowledge of how to work on this particular one. Guess I should have bought a V and then I would know how to work on it.

    thanx
    Garth
    i read over the posts quickly but did you check the back corners of the valve covers for oil residue? my passenger side leaked, had it warrantied and now my driver side is leaking.
    it doesnt spill on the driveway it runs onto the exhaust then burns off fairly quickly... i barely loose anything ,infact when i have the oil changed is measures right back to almost identical to what i put in...it is just a slight drip.

    this is probably not what is causing your problem though.

    does the sound go away when the rpm raises?
    how long have you owned the car?
    the 3.2 is known to idle similar to how a diesel sounds, its rpm is lower than it should be at idle if you ask me... if you raist the rpm to about 1000 mine is very quiet....i wish there was some sort of manual adjustment on this but there isnt.

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