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92K views 76 replies 27 participants last post by  Jdrawbaugh 
#1 · (Edited)
OK, the strange thing about this condition is that it happens WHILE DRIVING! (2003 CTS with LS package and Bose NAV)

The MO is strange. the car can be speeding up or keeping a constant speed. The cruise may be active or not... The condition though is always unexpected. You will be driving along and the engine will just shut off and then the NAV screen will display "STARTING DISABLED REMOVE KEY".

Sometimes while coasting to the side of the road, it will magically come back to life and continue like nothing happened. Sometimes you will have to get off the road and then restart it. If the cruise was set, the condition shuts off the cruise and resets all driver presets to a factory default.

I have had OnStar do the remote diagnostics and they have found nothing. Once they do the check however, the cruise control will become active again, at least indicating that the system has been cleared.

Has anyone dealt with anything like this before? I would think that the key check is done only at startup... Is it always checking the key?

The dealer of course has no clue. They have replaced the keys and the Theft deterrent Control Module. It still hapens about 1 or 2 times a month.

Thanks!!!
 
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#31 ·
So far, so good. It will be a while before we really know. Sometimes it went 6 months without happening and sometimes it happened 4 times a day. I did notice in the bulletin that a Theft Deterrent code may be thrown for this condition. The dealer DID replace the entire theft deterrent system in the car early in the warranty period to try to fix this problem. This fix is MUCH easier. Maybe Will can explain how some service techs get led down these wrong trails.

One note is that the kit DID come with the 2 connector pins required so don't wast time getting those separately. Installation was fairly simple. There is one mounting retainer behind the ALDL plug that if removed gives much easier access to the wiring.

I will keep you posted but confidence is high. Thanks Will.
 
#32 ·
Most techs "go down the wrong road" because they don't make use of the resources we have at our fingertips.

Years ago everything was on paper, if you needed to find a TSB you'd likely spend a lot of time searching for it in stacks of books. We had large 3 ring binders and every month GM would send out TSBs and we'd have to arrange them in the binders by service manual section, year/make/model etc.
I can't even begin to explain what a pain it was. Even then the only reason you might look is because you remember reading something once when you were putting the TSBs in the binder.

Now we have Service Information online. You launch it, type in a keyword and hit enter and BAM every TSB out there is right at your fingertips. Some of the old timers don't get the computer, some of the young kids are too dumb to know how to use SI, and the rest are either too lazy, don't know much about computers, or just don't think it is worth a look so they keep guessing until something sticks.
I hate to say it but guys like me don't come around very often, usually there are only one or two in any dealer and sometimes none. (sorry if that sounds like I am bragging)

It is easy to get confused by all these electronic gadgets especially when it involves data buses and the like.
My background makes me ideal for this kind of thing and GM has the information out there, you just have to want to care enough to use it... :lol:

I actually started out as a computer programmer, and I was really good at it but I got bored and needed to do something with my hands.
I have done a lot of work and a lot of training to get where I am and I am glad I found a good dealer to work at that helps me continue to study and improve myself.
;)
Remember sometimes management is the biggest roadblock to the techs progress. I have had SM's in the past that almost refused to even let guys do training!
 
#36 ·
You are the guys I do it for. :cloud9:

There are some folks on here who don't care for me and believe it or not there are some guys on the GM tech forum that don't like me much either.
I know of a few guys up in Michigan in GM offices that wait for me to trip up so they can rip at me every chance they get.
Sad really... but I digress.... :lol:

I am only too glad to do what I can, sometimes I even make mistakes! :D

(I made a doozie the other day but I'd best not talk about it.. I was overdue)
 
#53 ·
Hi guys, i am new here from Germany. My CTS (European Model) have the same Problem. So I find the Manual from here and the Kit i can order from the US. But there is something i dont understand in the manual.
1. What do you mean with aldl Connector? Its the OBD 2 Connector under the stearing wheel? I dont find anything in internet about....
2. After I remove Pin 7 (k-line) and Pin 5 (Ground signal) from Housing of the OBD 2 connector and fix this kit between the 2 wires I have to push the 2 Pins back inside the housing or leave it outside. If i leave it outside the Diagnostic maybe malfunction?

I know the threat is from many years ago but i hope onebody can answer.
Sorry for bad English :)

Greats from Germany
 
#55 ·
This is an interesting thread. I had an 04 Envoy (4.2 inline 6) that did the same thing...randomly shut off while driving, only to come back to life after coming to a complete stop; no codes were ever set, so the dealership acted like I was imagining the whole thing. At the suggestion of my FIL (who owns a repair shop), I evaluated the camshaft position sensor as a possible culprit. I first unplugged it and noticed that the connector looked fine inside the seal, but the outside of the connector was covered with dirt. The sensor tested fine, so I removed it and cleaned it up. I then applied dielectric grease to the contacts and reinstalled. I then disconnected all of the connectors I could find, one by one, and applied dielectric grease before reconnecting. The problem did not recur within the next two years, at which point I traded the car for a new one.

The point here is that electrical connections become degraded over time, even with good seals. I always apply dielectric grease or DeOxIt when I remove/replace electrical connections, and I believe this has either solved or prevented many problems in my aging high mile cars. If I were currently having the stalling problem I would start by applying dielectric to all of the contact points on all of the sensors. I would also consider replacing the camshaft positon sensor just because it is a likely culprit (as mentioned in a few previous posts).

Regarding the Envoy, I later found several online descriptions of how the camshaft position failure causes the engine to shut off:

"When the sensor begins to fail it provides an intermittent signal. If the signal flat lines for long enough, the engine stalls out. This becomes an intermittent stalling problem that drives you crazy."
 
#56 ·
I had several of above mentioned problems. Luckily never while driving. But twice when standing for red light. Engine turned right back on.

When I changed the CPS I also took the cam shaft PS. Took a few minutes to change both.

Never had an issue since @110.000 miles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#57 ·
Here is what parts I replaced till now.
Electronic ignition switch
Cam shaft sensor
Crank shaft position sensor
All fuses ignition
Key lock cylinder
Starter relay
Fuel pump
Fuel pump relay
Ignition relay
Installed Modul emulator kit

Issue not fixed till now.

Now I find out that the instrument cluster panel has to do something with the lights of the gear shift indicator. These lights only park position and 2 and 4 works. If I hit the dash the light of N, D and so on are working too. I think this is the problem the car dies while driving. I check it and find out there is an electrical problem near the connector. If I push it hard all lights are working in the shifter indicator.
I order a used icp from a 07 cts from Britain (need one with metric). I will get receiv it in few days and install it.
I will reply if the problem is solved.

Happy new year 2019
 
#58 ·
Hopefully that solves the problem! I have not heard of the instrument cluster causing the car to shut off but anything is possible...could be a connection within the actual cluster or as simple as connections to/from the cluster. It would be prudent to apply dielectric grease or DeOxIt to the contacts...could do this whether you keep the old cluster or replace.

I hope your new year starts off with a working car!
 
#59 ·
First I do this year is to change the instrument cluster. The gear shift indicator lights now working perfect. First time I try the Car drive 5 km and it's shut of. It won't restart again. Only a clack clack from the starter. I try till Batterie is low. Take a taxi at home take my other car and connect starting wires to the cadillac. I get it back to live and drive at home but the transmission acts not normal. A obd scan show me a P 0700 tcm code and a U code network failure This codes are coming up not after cut of. They are shown after trying to restart and Batterie low. So I delete code and the car starting absolute normal. Now i think I do all I can to solve this issue. Without success. Maybe something wrong with ecm or tcm or both. I cut of the Batterie over night to reset all errors from ecm(maybe there are some not shown with an ordinary scantool) but
I think I need a GM service with a GM tech 2 diagnostics. They are very rarely in Germany since GM cuts of Opel.
 
#60 ·
This may or may not be relevant to your issue, but the only times I had the clacking on a starter is when 1) the battery was low or 2) the starter solenoid was bad. However the p0700 suggests a possible connection failure somewhere in the trans control system. It is hard to know where without testing the car, but I would continue the diagnostics by checking connections to/from the trans and the ignition system, and as I mentioned above, applying dielectric to all connections. If the code(s) return, a tech 2 diagnostic would be good. Can get a knock-off for a few hundred on ebay...this would be a good investment for other cars too.

On second thought, it appears that a common issue is the ignition, so I would lean toward these connections as the source of your problems. It may be worth disconnecting, testing, and reconnecting each connection in the ignition system, starting at alternator and battery, at the starter, at the trans module, steering column, etc, and applying dielectric at each point.
 
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