M5 vs. CTS-V
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 13 of 13
Cadillac or competing brand model ? Why ? Discussion, M5 vs. CTS-V in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; ...
  1. #1
    Jesda's Avatar
    Jesda is offline Super Moderator
    Automobile(s): An endless stream of Sevilles.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    St Louis MO
    Age
    32
    Posts
    22,202

    M5 vs. CTS-V

    http://www.windingroad.com/features-...adillac-cts-v/

    By Brooks Holden
    Mar/Apr 2006, Issue #8

    Something is going right with the world…

    WHEN NORMAL MORTALS CAN OWN A CAR LIKE THIS: a BMW sports sedan with a Formula 1-inspired V-10 cranking out 500 hp at 7750 rpm and connected to a seven-speed sequential manual gearbox. Sure, the BMW M5 isn’t exactly cheap at $81,200, but that price is within reach of more than a few. Things start to look even better when you realize that you also can get the marvelous 400-hp, 395-pound-feet, six-speed manual Corvette drivetrain in a carefully tuned Cadillac sedan. And the Cadillac CTS-V is almost, dare I say, affordable at $51,395.

    While these are both unearthly auto offerings, you may believe you'd be getting a significantly lesser car by saving the $30K. But what if the Cadillac actually could hold a candle to the all-conquering BMW, car some have called the best car in the world? Ever vigilant, we set out over the canyon roads and highways surrounding Malibu, California, to shed some light on this question.

    Taking the M5 up entrance ramps from 20 mph into the three digits, I realize this is not a stunningly gutsy car. Yes, 500 hp is a really big number for a modestly-sized sedan. But I forgot that the five-liter V-10 is a revvy little piece, with a peak torque of 383 pound-feet way out at 6100 rpm, and it's mounted in a 4000-pound car. That puts its torque to weight ratio (192 poundfeet per ton) at the same level as a 2005 Porsche Carrera S (188 pound-feet per ton), which is not bad, but not amazing either. (See the Winding Road Torque:Weight Rankings)

    It doesn’t really matter though, because BMW has re-written the rules a bit. The glorious thing about the M5’s V-10 is that it really feels happy in the 4000 to 7000 rpm range, where it needs to be to really move. Lots of revvy cars seem somewhere between slightly and very strained as you get into the strong part of the powerband, but not this one. It feels more like the RX-8’s rotary motor in this regard, and I can promise that you won’t feel reluctant to run the M5 engine up and down the rev range.

    With that in mind, the other winning aspect of the M5 engine is that it does just about the best job I’ve experienced at fooling you into thinking that the power rises right up to infinite rpm. Lots of powerful engines diminish in pull as they get above 4000 or 5000 rpm, but the M5 just seems to get stronger and stronger.

    I wish I could say that the M5’s seven-speed SMG ‘box was as seamlessly integrated into the drive as its power curve. This iteration of BMW’s SMG certainly is good, but it isn’t quite as good as the latest Ferrari ‘box nor the VW/Audi DSG system. After spending ample drive time with the latter, I now know there is an entirely different and higher level of performance possible. SMG isn’t quite smooth enough or fast enough to be transparent, whereas DSG is.

    Even so, I realize that the SMG system can be a real pleasure as I head down into several canyons to get a better sense of the M5’s chassis and how it fits with the drivetrain. Being able to quickly grab a gear is a huge advantage in twisty sections of the road. And on those twisties, I have to say the M5 handles beautifully. The chassis is balanced, it turns in well, and there is lots of grip. The steering is almost ideally quick, and it loads up nicely. As is common these days, BMW has set up the M5 with a bias toward slight understeer, but usually you won’t notice.

    All of that is fine, but in the context of all this “world’s best car” stuff you need to know that the M5 is not the most agile creature on the planet. Nonetheless, BMW has done a masterful job taming physics in the way they’ve come to a ride and handling balance. The BMW handles as well as almost any car of its weight and has a communicative chassis, and yet it has a tremendous ability to absorb road ripples and potholes.

    At the same time, I suppose there is no free lunch, and the M5’s ride over larger swales is quite firm. This suits my taste just fine, but you’ll never confuse the M5 with a luxury sedan.

    So this candidate for best car in the world actually isn't the best at anything, but on the other hand, I can't think of another car that does so many things so well. In that sense, I can begin to understand the idea of the M5's rave reviews. Which brings me to the Cadillac CTS-V. Surely, the lowly American couldn’t do the things the M5 does? Or could it?

    Repeating my entrance ramp trials with this car speaks volumes. As you might expect, the Caddy has more low- end grunt than the BMW. I feel this immediately as I get into the throttle coming out of turns at about 2500 rpm. The Caddy just digs down and launches itself forward. Not too surprising, given that it has far more torque per ton (205) than the M5, and that torque comes on at much lower revs. The Caddy does seem to run out of steam earlier when compared to the M5, but so does just about every other car on the planet.

    What makes the CTS-V so much fun is that it delivers power right where it is usable day to day. The M5 isn’t hard to spin up into a range where it really cranks, so this is no knock on the Bavarian approach, but with the Caddy torque is just there all the time. If you drive in the city or suburbia, and never do track days, the Cadillac philosophy makes a lot of sense.

    The CTS-V shares its Tremec six-speed manual with the Corvette C6. This transmission is very usable, though it sets no new standards for short throws or quick shifts. I find as I run back and forth through the gears that the heavy action and notchy movements fit nicely with the rumbly and somewhat coarse, but always beefy engine. While far from the epitome of refinement, I don’t see how you could fail to have fun with this drivetrain. It isn’t quite as amazing as it is in the ‘Vette due to an extra 300 pounds, but it is close.

    When it comes to handling, the CTS-V has a different philosophy than the M5. The latter is all about controlled smoothness. The CTS-V isn’t as well controlled, but it offers significantly more texture than the BMW does. From driving a host of good cars recently, I’m coming to the conclusion that it is the rare car that delivers both in quantity. The CTS-V’s handling is pretty flat, and turn-in is good with excellent weighting through the steering wheel. The rear of the car moves around a bit more on bumps, so in some sense it isn’t as perfect as the M5, but I find it a bit more interesting at street speeds. More verve and more swing, within limits, can be more fun.

    Heading down some long stretches of interstate highway, I notice that the Cadillac reveals one really impressive trait of the M5 that was only in my subconscious before. At high speeds, the Cadillac feels stable, but rather normal. When I jump into the M5 and repeat the same run, I am reminded of the otherworldly high-speed control of the F430 and 360 Modena. The M5 just feels planted as the speeds creep up toward 100 mph. You barely notice the difference between 60 and 90 mph. The CTS-V doesn’t feel bad, but you can tell the speed is rising.

    That sort of thing is minor for many drivers, but it really characterizes the difference between the M5 and the CTS-V. The M5 feels more refined than the CTS-V, with higher quality materials and smoother controls (though you get Bangle styling and iDrive in the bargain).

    At the same time, the CTS-V seems a little more spirited and punchier, yet still suited for a drive to the opera. The M5 feels more special than the CTS-V, but the CTS-V is more fun. The M5 gives you the sense that you would never regret buying it, so competent yet involving are its ways, at least until you start wondering if the M3 will be even better. The CTS-V, surprisingly, makes you think that Cadillac may have done the Corvette one better, at least from behind the wheel. Now that’s impressive.



  2. Remove Advertisements
    CadillacForums.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    I~LUV~Caddys8792's Avatar
    I~LUV~Caddys8792 is offline Moderator
    Automobile(s): 1992 Town Car Cartier & 2014 Accord LX MTX
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Roseville, MN.
    Age
    27
    Posts
    34,086

    Re: M5 vs. CTS-V

    I'd pick the M5 hands down.

  4. #3
    Blackout's Avatar
    Blackout is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 1995 FTS
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Dover, DE
    Age
    30
    Posts
    4,578

    Re: M5 vs. CTS-V

    CTS-V is a nice car but you would seriously need to have your head examined if you would rather have one over an M5

  5. #4
    Jesda's Avatar
    Jesda is offline Super Moderator
    Automobile(s): An endless stream of Sevilles.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    St Louis MO
    Age
    32
    Posts
    22,202

    Re: M5 vs. CTS-V

    If I could afford another 30k, then yeah, I'd pick the M5 too. Otherwise, I'd rather spend that change on a Solstice.

  6. #5
    Randy_W is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,063

    Re: M5 vs. CTS-V

    If you have $50k on a sport sedan, buy the Caddy, if you have the 30 large in extra change and feel the need to stroke your ego, buy the BMW.

  7. #6
    90Brougham350's Avatar
    90Brougham350 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 94 FWB, 93 SDV, 94 FWB (sold), 90 Brougham (sold)
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    River Falls, WI
    Age
    29
    Posts
    3,730

    Re: M5 vs. CTS-V

    Whether or not you'd buy the M5 or the V, the fact that the V family has only been around for a few years and has articles like this being written about it speaks volumes. No BMW driver ever thought they'd be reading something like this 10 years ago. Now let's just see that 600 HP 2nd generation V!

  8. #7
    toysnob is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    365

    Re: M5 vs. CTS-V

    This is the most hillarious question. How can you honestly compare these cars. The M5 whipes the floor with any four door offering from GM. Gimme a break already.

    And I am no fan of BMW or the M5. I just bought an RS4 (see the latest post in the S4 vs. CTS-V thread that is now 17 pages long)...

    The RS4 is giving the M5 such a run for its money and it's not even supposed to be competing with that car.

    In fact in the 0 to 100 to 0 showdown, the RS4 and M5 beat out the Aston Marton V8 Vantage.

    Needless to say there is not even a Cadillac car on that list.

    http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/artic...ar_0-100-0.asp
    http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?i...42010000ze.jpg

    Competing Cars 0-100-0 Time (seconds)
    A1 GP 8.40
    Bugatti Veyron 9.90
    Suzuki GSX-R1000 10.70
    Ariel Atom S'Charged 11.00
    Ariel Atom 450 11.05
    Atom Private Owned 11.05
    Caterham CSR260 11.95
    Brooke Double R 12.50
    Porsche 911 Turbo 12.50
    Ford Focus WRC 13.57
    Lambo Gallardo 13.65
    Ascari KZ1 13.80
    Corvette Z06 13.80
    Alpina B6 14.80
    BMW M6 14.95
    TVR Tuscan 2 15.00
    BMW M5 15.20
    Audi RS4 15.80
    Aston V8 Vantage 15.81
    BMW Z4M Roadster 15.95
    Porsche Cayman S 16.46
    Lotus Exige S 16.60
    Nissan 350Z 18.80
    Vauxhall Astra Sprint 18.85
    Vauxhall Astra VXR 19.05
    Renault Megane F1 20.55
    Mazda 6MPS 21.00
    Ford Focus ST 21.35
    Vauxhall Vectra VXR 22.35
    Vauxhall Astra Thurlby 22.65

  9. #8
    Jesda's Avatar
    Jesda is offline Super Moderator
    Automobile(s): An endless stream of Sevilles.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    St Louis MO
    Age
    32
    Posts
    22,202

    Re: M5 vs. CTS-V

    We're comparing smiles per dollar. Now, give us a listing of smile stats, toysnob.

  10. #9
    AznPrydeRegalRyde is offline BAD EMAIL ADDRESS
    Automobile(s): 2005 CTS 3.6L, 2006 350Z, Ducati 996s
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,449

    Re: M5 vs. CTS-V

    Quote Originally Posted by toysnob
    This is the most hillarious question. How can you honestly compare these cars. The M5 whipes the floor with any four door offering from GM. Gimme a break already.

    And I am no fan of BMW or the M5. I just bought an RS4 (see the latest post in the S4 vs. CTS-V thread that is now 17 pages long)...

    The RS4 is giving the M5 such a run for its money and it's not even supposed to be competing with that car.

    In fact in the 0 to 100 to 0 showdown, the RS4 and M5 beat out the Aston Marton V8 Vantage.

    Needless to say there is not even a Cadillac car on that list.

    http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/artic...ar_0-100-0.asp
    http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?i...42010000ze.jpg

    Competing Cars 0-100-0 Time (seconds)
    A1 GP 8.40
    Bugatti Veyron 9.90
    Suzuki GSX-R1000 10.70
    Ariel Atom S'Charged 11.00
    Ariel Atom 450 11.05
    Atom Private Owned 11.05
    Caterham CSR260 11.95
    Brooke Double R 12.50
    Porsche 911 Turbo 12.50
    Ford Focus WRC 13.57
    Lambo Gallardo 13.65
    Ascari KZ1 13.80
    Corvette Z06 13.80
    Alpina B6 14.80
    BMW M6 14.95
    TVR Tuscan 2 15.00
    BMW M5 15.20
    Audi RS4 15.80
    Aston V8 Vantage 15.81
    BMW Z4M Roadster 15.95
    Porsche Cayman S 16.46
    Lotus Exige S 16.60
    Nissan 350Z 18.80
    Vauxhall Astra Sprint 18.85
    Vauxhall Astra VXR 19.05
    Renault Megane F1 20.55
    Mazda 6MPS 21.00
    Ford Focus ST 21.35
    Vauxhall Vectra VXR 22.35
    Vauxhall Astra Thurlby 22.65
    How many more times are you going to mention on a Caddy forum that you just bought an RS4? We're all soooo happy for you and wish we were you.

    There is no Cadillac on the list for obvious reasons, ya dooche. Lets no forget that caddy didn't have an rwd in a sedan until 3 years ago. The CTS-V costs 30k less, and was an perfect competitor to the last M5, thats why they have mistakingly compared the new M5 to the V. The new M5 is larger and more powerful, so the 2 really shouldn't be compared anymore.

    I was more surprised at how close the numbers were for the RS4 and the CTS-V, considering the V had the runcrap rs-a's.

    Hey, for 50k including mods and cost of vehicle, lets see who can make a better performing car outta a V or an RS4.

  11. #10
    Adam's Avatar
    Adam is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): JimmyH
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Kingsport
    Age
    29
    Posts
    12,029

    Re: M5 vs. CTS-V

    if i had the money... i'd buy the V and drop 30k dollars worth of mods into it. i dont like bimmers... i dont care how nice the interior is... nor do i care for idrive, and the car is just bland, no real styling at all (IMO). for 80k i would much rather have a brand new Z06 Vette... with 3k left over for exhaust and cold air intake and headers. i love Vettes though!

    wait i just priced one at 71k... plus i get a 10% discount so that drops the price to abot 63,9k... so i would have 16,1k for aftermarket... hahaha SUPERCHARGED Z06 with headers, exhaust, cold air intake, NOS (or maybe meth injected), and have the ecu tuned.

  12. #11
    70eldo's Avatar
    70eldo is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 1970 Eldorado.
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Dutchman in Germany
    Age
    39
    Posts
    3,849

    Re: M5 vs. CTS-V

    NEVER will I be associated with a BMW. For $80K I'd rather buy a V and an extra CTS for my girl!

  13. #12
    Randy_W is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,063

    Re: M5 vs. CTS-V

    Quote Originally Posted by AznPrydeRegalRyde
    How many more times are you going to mention on a Caddy forum that you just bought an RS4? We're all soooo happy for you and wish we were you.

    There is no Cadillac on the list for obvious reasons, ya dooche. Lets no forget that caddy didn't have an rwd in a sedan until 3 years ago. The CTS-V costs 30k less, and was an perfect competitor to the last M5, thats why they have mistakingly compared the new M5 to the V. The new M5 is larger and more powerful, so the 2 really shouldn't be compared anymore.

    I was more surprised at how close the numbers were for the RS4 and the CTS-V, considering the V had the runcrap rs-a's.

    Hey, for 50k including mods and cost of vehicle, lets see who can make a better performing car outta a V or an RS4.

  14. #13
    thebigjimsho's Avatar
    thebigjimsho is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): ZIP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    In the barrel of a gun...
    Posts
    49,317

    Re: M5 vs. CTS-V

    Quote Originally Posted by toysnob
    This is the most hillarious question. How can you honestly compare these cars. The M5 whipes the floor with any four door offering from GM. Gimme a break already.

    And I am no fan of BMW or the M5. I just bought an RS4 (see the latest post in the S4 vs. CTS-V thread that is now 17 pages long)...

    The RS4 is giving the M5 such a run for its money and it's not even supposed to be competing with that car.

    In fact in the 0 to 100 to 0 showdown, the RS4 and M5 beat out the Aston Marton V8 Vantage.

    Needless to say there is not even a Cadillac car on that list.

    http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/artic...ar_0-100-0.asp
    http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?i...42010000ze.jpg

    Competing Cars 0-100-0 Time (seconds)
    A1 GP 8.40
    Bugatti Veyron 9.90
    Suzuki GSX-R1000 10.70
    Ariel Atom S'Charged 11.00
    Ariel Atom 450 11.05
    Atom Private Owned 11.05
    Caterham CSR260 11.95
    Brooke Double R 12.50
    Porsche 911 Turbo 12.50
    Ford Focus WRC 13.57
    Lambo Gallardo 13.65
    Ascari KZ1 13.80
    Corvette Z06 13.80
    Alpina B6 14.80
    BMW M6 14.95
    TVR Tuscan 2 15.00
    BMW M5 15.20
    Audi RS4 15.80
    Aston V8 Vantage 15.81
    BMW Z4M Roadster 15.95
    Porsche Cayman S 16.46
    Lotus Exige S 16.60
    Nissan 350Z 18.80
    Vauxhall Astra Sprint 18.85
    Vauxhall Astra VXR 19.05
    Renault Megane F1 20.55
    Mazda 6MPS 21.00
    Ford Focus ST 21.35
    Vauxhall Vectra VXR 22.35
    Vauxhall Astra Thurlby 22.65
    Cadillac could be run by Satan and I wouldn't really care. The CTS-V is a downright steal for $50 Large and toysnot is a tried and true @$$-hole.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting