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Cadillac or competing brand model ? Why ? Discussion, Whats Faster? 06 Bmw 550 Or Chrysler 300 Srt8? in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; BTW Pontiac didn't get a split grille until the late 60's? Somebody dosn't know their Pontiac history.... 1959 Pontiac Bonnieville.... ...
  1. #16
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    Re: Dont Move This To Cadillac Vs! Its Not A Cadillac Question!

    BTW Pontiac didn't get a split grille until the late 60's?

    Somebody dosn't know their Pontiac history....

    1959 Pontiac Bonnieville....



    Man, cars with real names instead of numbers are so much better....

  2. #17
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    Re: Dont Move This To Cadillac Vs! Its Not A Cadillac Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by FSU_Noles
    You can sell a lease vehicle so long as you cover any remaining payments and the residual value of the vehicle.

    As for lease versus buy, I lease many vehicles for a number of reasons. First and foremost, As I own my own corporation, the corporation leases my car for me.

    Secondly, buying a car with a loan is essentially like putting money into a declining-value savings account — you never get out as much as you put in. A portion of every payment you make is lost to depreciation and finance charges. What you have "to show" for your investment when your loan is paid off is only the part that is left over after depreciation and interest. A terrible investment by any measure.

    Leasing, then, is similar to buying, but without the "savings account." You only pay for what you use and don't put anything into "savings." It's true that you'll own nothing at the end of a lease; you'll have nothing "to show" for the money you've put into it. But... what you don't own is the same part of the car — the depreciated part — that a buyer too doesn't own at the end of his loan. Again, a car's value depreciates the same amount whether it is leased or purchased.

    With leasing, you may have the option of putting your monthly payment savings into more productive investments, such as mutual funds or stocks that have the possibility of increasing in value.

    ((http://www.leaseguide.com/lease03.htm said it better than I could))
    Any car is a terrible investment...

    what you said about the value going down, I think that is better for the new vs. used argument instead of lease vs. buy...

    buying a brand new vehicle is something i doubt I'll ever do.... not when for 3 years later I can get the same exact thing for 1/2 the value.

    Like, I'd rather get a 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubcion and a (used) nice ~16' boat, and still have money left over... then a 2006 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon..... only difference is the '06 has a 6spd instead of 5spd... I can live with that...

    just an example. I enjoy getting things used... get what was once a premium priced item for cheap... it goes with anything. I enjoy vintage or classic items, time tested designs... goes for planes, boats, cars etc.... but I am easily capable of fixing my own stuff, so I look at getting something older a whole bunch of fun... obviosuly an '03 vs '06 isn't classic or difference in age.. but the same concept.

  3. #18
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    Re: Dont Move This To Cadillac Vs! Its Not A Cadillac Question!

    Another thing with lease or buy....

    Do you plan to get a new vehicle every ~3 years?

    If so, then leasing may be the better option....

    but think about it....

    Lets say you buy a $20k car, finance is for 5 years. You want to keep it for 10 years (resonable amount of time for a daily driver) So after 5 years, it is now paid off and you drive it another 5 years only paying maintenace costs... it dosn't owe you anything and you just keep driving it.

    Well, lets say you lease for 3 years... that 3rs is up, so you get into another lease... that is up, and another lease.... and so on....

    Thats just it, with leasing, you are ALWAYS making payments.... always.... on something you don't own. You will never get to a point where you can just keep driving the car and not owe anything... because your monthly lease payment, is infact what you owe.

    The depreciation really only comes into play for short term "in 2 years what is worth more" you need to look at the big picture, and ask yourself in 10 years, which is the better choice?

    Some people feel they need to be in brand new cars all the time, we have neighbors like that... I gess if you have the money, then its fine. I don't feel that way, in fact there are far, far more 10+ year old cars that I want then brand new cars... I just don't sit at a dealer lot looking at new cars like, damn, one of these days..... but if I spot a '95 Eldorado ETC... damn, I want that.... Thats the difference... and the difference is also, I could save up the ~$7000 a '95 ETC would cost me, pay it in cash and never be in debt, or I could finance and be making payments for the next 5 years just to drive a new car.... sorry, but I don't like that theory at all.

    My father got his '88 Fiero Formula in 1991 with about 60k on it, it was his dialy driver (not in the winter, obvisouly) until 2002, when he got his '99 GP GTP. So he had that Fiero for 11 years, daily driver, and put 110k+ on it. He got that car dirt cheap, but either way, I'd say that was an investment... he still has that car and it still runs great... he is planning on fixing it up. My mother currently drives her '89 Brougham, she has had that car for 8 years now, put over 100k on it too... thats more then paid for itself... and I'll be getting it later this year to fix it up and what not.

    I have been driving the '93 Coupe for 3 years now... while I do feel the want for a newer vehicle... its more that I want a truck with a manual transmission, not a new car... I can live with my DeVille for years to come, I just want a truck.... we'll see how the future plays out, I am patient, I can wait...

  4. #19
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    Re: Dont Move This To Cadillac Vs! Its Not A Cadillac Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckdobbins
    the way i see, be it im 21 and dont fully understand everything yet (imagine that), is that people lease cuz they figure "ah the heck with it, im gonna be paying a car payment my entire life, i might as well drive WHAT i want, WHEN i want."

    at the end of the agreement, if its a thumbs down...hey atleast you never purchased it. sick of your car after 2 years? thank god you leased cuz now you can try something else.

    thats my take. it makes sense to me.

    but for petes sake get the dodge!!
    THATS JUST IT!

    Thats the mentality... "I'll be making a car payment my entire life" !

    Some people are NOT going to be making a car payment their entire life....

    Here is my personal example....

    in roughly 2 years from now, I'd like to buy a 2003-2006 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, I'll be focusing on '03/'04 because its the same thing (except tranny) but cheaper. I figure with current depreciation, and the new '07 Wrangler coming out, that I could get a nice '03 Rubicon, out the door for around $14,000. This will be in 2008, so a 2003 will be 5 years old by then. I plan to save up around $5,000 to be able to slap as a down payment... because I hate payments, and I want my monthly payment to be as low as possible... So that leaves roughly $10,000 that will be financed, a 5 year loan, though I'll pay it off sooner, I just want the cushion so that if I can't make the higher payments one month, I am still ok.

    I'm telling ya now though, I'll have this Jeep for YEARS... I mean, a looooong time. Plus, once I do get another vehicle after that as a daily driver, I am not getting rid of the Jeep... we all know what happens to sweet older Jeeps....

    Its a somewhat strange situation for me though... and it extends quite far.... example, the paint on my Coupe DeVille is really bad... I mean, I am ashamed to even show it now... and a really good paint job would be $3,000.... woha... right there is a huge chuck of a down payment on the Jeep.... then there is more... I am a car guy, I love my cars, its my biggest hobby in life... I enjoy working on them and everything... well, besides fixing stuff on the Coupe, there is nothing more to do... in retrospect, the Jeep has an unlimited aftermarket.... more then any Mustang or Civic... and I *always* get the urge to work on the car (hell today I removed the whole fuel rail just to change a fuel pressure regulator that really didn't need it) so I can make lots of weekend projects with the Jeep...lots... weather it is engine, drivetrain, steering, suspension... anything... plus, it'll be new and shiney, and no stupid paint problems, meaning I can wax it up and be proud to show it off... but on the same note, I'll take it off-road, as off-roading is something I really enjoy... and yeah it'll get banged up a bit, but its all in the fun... atleast any damage on it would be from me..... and not fading clear coat.... I plan to drive the Jeep all over, it gets crappy gas mileage, but nothing I drive now gets amazing gas mileage either. I want to buy something int he range of 70k miles or less, which is doable... its super reliable, cheap to fix and easy to work on.... its perfect and will last me a looong time... then when its replaced for a dialy driver, it'll get one hell of an off-road make over. I just can't see spending $3,000 for a repaint on my Coupe, when the paint will only get weathered again... it'll get repainted when I have a nice garage to keep it in.... and that is the very thing that runs thru my mind all the time... just save up all this money and make a huge down payment for something I really want.... like the Jeep.... the Coupe will still be there (and still on the road so I can drive it) plus, by the time comes, i'll be driving a ~5 year old vehicle... resonable for someone out of college starting a career... my first car, the Coupe, was 10 years old when I bought it... like I said, used cars don't bother me, and I am not going to live out of my means, but I still want to get.... what I want... and the Rubicon is what I want....

    Thats my plan.

  5. #20
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    Re: Dont Move This To Cadillac Vs! Its Not A Cadillac Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Wolf
    My gosh, physical proof that just because a car cost 3x+ more... it still looks like crap. Those Pontiacs sure are sharp looking.
    I knew you were gonna say something to that effect...




    Seperated at birth?




    Disclaimer: Just a joke.Not being serious.

  6. #21
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    Re: Dont Move This To Cadillac Vs! Its Not A Cadillac Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Wolf
    BTW Pontiac didn't get a split grille until the late 60's?

    Somebody dosn't know their Pontiac history....

    1959 Pontiac Bonnieville....



    Man, cars with real names instead of numbers are so much better....
    I know,but im talking about the ones that acually look SIMILAR.Bmw had the smaller split grille in the early 60's,pontiac had the split grille,but it didnt get small until the late 60's.Boo ya

  7. #22
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    Re: Dont Move This To Cadillac Vs! Its Not A Cadillac Question!

    your lack of maturity shows even thru your typing....

    Pontiacs trademark is the split grille... it was a big grille because the freakin car was huge... big enough to put a BMW of that era in the trunk.

    1962 Pontiac Bonnieville:



    1962 BMW 1500:



    Lets see 1 of 2 things... first, that car is about half the size of the Bonnieville... and.... look at that grille, its the same proportions of the Pontiac grille, not the smaller spilt grille it is today. I don't see you logic.

    Here is a SWEET 1962 BMW:



    Lets say it together "boo-yah!" 12hp of fury!.

    Here is a 1967 GTO, my favorite year for the Goat... this is the car that you say got the "tiny" grille....



    opps....can't see the grille in that picture....

    Here is the front of the GTO... the grille dosn't look "tiny" to me... and it still has the same shape as it did in that '59 Bonnie:



    Here is a 1969 Pontiac... as late 60's as you can get.... I still don't see that tiny grille.... tho the car keeps getting bigger.... that 455 under the hood is pretty sweet too



    Just face it, you hate Pontiac... you make absurd claims that I never heard of before "testerossa lines"... Pontiac taking the grille from BMW.... give me a break if you like BMW so much then get a freakin Bimmer.... Pontiac has made some really nice cars, and atleast they have alot of nice styling to back up the performance.... too bad the same can't be said about BMW....

  8. #23
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    Re: Dont Move This To Cadillac Vs! Its Not A Cadillac Question!

    Great topic because it stirs debate. But does anyone honestly believe that someone truly interested in leasing a BMW 550i would go to the SRT-8 and Cadillac forums to ask advice? I mean really. Oh, I know. We're all experts here and he just wants our advice.

  9. #24
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    Re: Dont Move This To Cadillac Vs! Its Not A Cadillac Question!

    Leasing is the better option alot of the time.
    If you're lookin at a car which will depreciate $25,000 over three years,
    And it costs you only $18,000 over three years to lease,

    Lease it..


    Mr. Night Wolf you really do have some reasonable ideas and you put up quite a compelling argument against leasing. I can't stand to see people with broken spirits giving up and saying well I'll always be making payments anyway.
    And it also makes alot of sense, your example where someone pays for so many years and then owns and drives the car for another so many years..


    The thing is, it isn't always worth owning it.. because you almost always end up with less equity in the automobile than the amt. of money you could have saved by leasing. After you own it, usually it will be out of warranty and then you have to spend more maintaining it and/or put down a grand or so for an extended warranty and etc...
    Then the guy who is leasing catches up with you if he was ever behind because he still ends up spending less and he's driving an '05 you're driving a '98



    As an aside I can't believe what people are out spending on automobiles.
    I've seen TOO MANY - just far too many cases of people spending as much and in some cases TWICE as much in automobile and toy payments (boats - RVs - skidoos - etc) as they're spending on their HOUSE PAYMENT.
    Where does it all end..
    It's getting scary!

  10. #25
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    Re: Dont Move This To Cadillac Vs! Its Not A Cadillac Question!

    Nightwolf, I think you want a Jeep Rubicon but after reading your posts I am not sure...

    You posted quite a dissertation on why a lease is not good for you and I wanted to reply to some of your comments.

    1. People who lease cars don't necessarily do it because they can't "afford" to buy the car.

    2. Some people like being in new cars, they like the new features, the new safety features and if they decide they don't want the car in 2-3 years they don't have to deal with the hassle of selling a car or trading in a car that is quite likely upside down.

    3. All of your examples are previous vehicles. If you ever buy a new car you may find that someday you don't like that new car or that another comes along that supersedes it.

    Here is one example (my own). I had a 99 Tahoe, fully loaded except 4WD. Then in 2000 the new Tahoe's came out and had many new safety features, a better cabin, more power, better mileage, ABS, traction control, improved airbag coverage, etc. Now the value on my 99 was even less than if the Tahoe had continued the same body/design. So in 2001 when my lease expired (total of about 11k outta pocket) I was able to get right into a 2001 (which I purchased because I was going to keep it - new body style changes not likely in the near future 5-7 years). Since I traveled for my work and my daughter was an infant I wanted the safest Tahoe offered. The braking distance between those two vehicles was astounding. I also always wanted my wife’s vehicle to be under warranty and covered by roadside assistance should she ever have needed it and I was not around.

    4. You seem to have made the assumption that you can't “own or buy” a lease vehicle when your lease ends. If you decide to keep a lease vehicle you simply have to pay off the residual and it is yours.

    5. As you continue leasing, GM (IIRC) will waive down payments since you are a preferred lease customer.

    6. There are numerous business reasons for leasing also, like I write mine off on taxes as it is my leased to my corporation. When meeting clients it does not necessarily give a good impression when you pull up in a 5-7 year old car. First impressions are very hard to do over.

    My Allante, an older car I wanted and I bought, as you said a premium vehicle (65k new in 93) for a fraction of that price and with 52k miles (when I bought it) very much like new.

    Like Speedy said, different strokes. I like new cars and features and I like my wife and daughter in new vehicles with all the latest safety features.

    Hope you find that Jeep...

  11. #26
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    Re: Dont Move This To Cadillac Vs! Its Not A Cadillac Question!

    My opinion is to get the SRT8 chrysler, you will lose less money in the long run but if it was me picking I would get the Dodge charger SRT8 version, it looks better

  12. #27
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    Re: Dont Move This To Cadillac Vs! Its Not A Cadillac Question!

    If you have the money, spend it like it's going out of style. Lease, rent, buy...Do whatever you'd like to.

    I'm sticking with Rick on this one though: keep away from leasing!

    By the way, go for the SRT-8; it's mucho faster and better looking...

  13. #28
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    Re: Dont Move This To Cadillac Vs! Its Not A Cadillac Question!

    Again, this all depends on circumstances. My dad has had a combination o leased, financed and cash bought cars, and he still prefers lease, but he lost his business, and the only way he could justify leasing was through the business. Now he hasn't got the business, he has neither the means or the need for a £50k car. Or a £20k car. Or a £10k car for that matter. Our car is worth pennies. In 2004 it cost £4100 and it was five years old then. ]

    Here is the Parkers pricing.

    Vauxhall Vectra Hatchback
    1.8 LS 5d (AC) (99) 1999/T

    Average mileage: 60,000 miles
    Cost New ('99) £ 16240
    Franchised Dealer £ 3040
    Independent Dealer £ 2830
    Private Good £ 2320
    Private Poor £ 1635
    Part Exchange £ 1845

    It was bought comparitively cheap considering it was £16k new. Now dad didn't buy this car through choice, he bought it of need, he needed a car. He would rather have had a newer car, but decided it would be wiser to pay cash outright for a used car, than take out even more credit. He didn't particularly want a car that was old enough to need repair work every other week, nor did he want a car that wouldnt be safe in a crash, that's why he comprmised and got the Vectra, relatively modern, had only been out of production for 2 years.

    His reason for leasing was feeling safer in a new car, and as FSU said, the need to leave a good impression on clients. Wouldnt you feel the same? I would rather lease and "never own" the car, than buy an older crappy car outright. Luckily we found a fairly reasonable example that did the safety job, but it couldnt impress anyone. It isnt needed for that anymore.

    Dad and I both agree that if you intend on selling it before five years, purchasing (or financing) a car is stupid, it makes more sense to lease it. If you intend on keeping it for longer than five years, buy it, its not worth leasing after five years, so long as you dont want a modern car.

  14. #29
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    Re: Dont Move This To Cadillac Vs! Its Not A Cadillac Question!

    Wait.... so what exactly is the problem with me wanting a 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon in 2 years? Is finding a 5 year old Jeep in mint condition really all that hard? I've been looking on ebay... and its not....

  15. #30
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    Re: Dont Move This To Cadillac Vs! Its Not A Cadillac Question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Wolf
    Wait.... so what exactly is the problem with me wanting a 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon in 2 years? Is finding a 5 year old Jeep in mint condition really all that hard? I've been looking on ebay... and its not....
    Nothing is wrong with that, but some people cannot go near a car that is over three years old, espcially if they are in a sensitive business. I would like a car that is still in warrenty, and being under three years old it won't have had the chance to gain exstensive damage, except in special circumstances. You know hwo to fix cars, most dont, and you are hoping to gain a collection of more than one car, most people only want one car at a time. Therefore it pays to have a newer car, if something on your Jeep goes catastrophically wrong to the point its too expensive to consider work, you'd want another car to drive, which is fine because you have one, most dont and need something they know will have a warrenty.

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