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Cadillac or competing brand model ? Why ? Discussion, BMW 550i - What a waste in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; Disco Cadillac. It's my name for the CTS because of its odd styling. Not necessarily bad, just unusual. Ok, a ...
  1. #16
    Zorb750 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: BMW 550i - What a waste

    Disco Cadillac. It's my name for the CTS because of its odd styling. Not necessarily bad, just unusual.

    Ok, a fact is that the BMW is better built. Go look seriously at one. Feel what it feels like to shut the door, or to open the door, the feel of the mechanism. How does the clutch feel? Is it well weighted, though not needlessly heavy, or is it light, maybe too light? The V's got a lighter clutch than a Corvette does. I know that much. The M5 is perfectly balanced, easy to control. You're a pro within 5 minutes. The V I drove was too easy to let up too fast, leading to jerky launches, or maybe not jerky, but not smooth either. M5 can be driven smoothly without any real effort.

    The bottom line is that there's more to price than performance. Do you pay +$300000 for a Rolls Royce then complain that it's not faster than your friend's Corvette? I would hope not. Now, that's an issue of comparing different kinds of cars, so it's not especially applicable here. I'm just saying that the M5 is a better car, and so is any other 5 series. BTW: A dinan kit for a 540i Sport will improve its handling beyond the capacities of the M5, and the CTS V. I know, that's a modified vehicle, and I am sure you can do something to the CTS suspension too, though not quite as much.

    The intent of this isn't to get you riled up. It's just to explain why the 5 series is worth its higher price tag than the CTS. And as I said, it's not just performance that makes it a good car. I would not buy a CTS at all. I think it's cheap with shoddy interior quality. I love when you poke at the padding on the door, where instead of feeling your finger hit the bottom of the pad, you feel the plate behind it start to bend. Cheap. Really cheap.

    Oh, and so you know, the M5 we've been comparing to was the last generation. It's essentially a 1997 car, with a package introduced in 1999 (euro) 2000 (us). The current M5 IS much improved, and exceeds the old M5 and the CTS V, even the Mercedes E55 for 0-60.

  2. #17
    davesdeville's Avatar
    davesdeville is offline Banned
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    Re: BMW 550i - What a waste

    Great, BMW is God now, we'll all bow down...

    Oh wait.

  3. #18
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    Re: BMW 550i - What a waste

    I do miss my old, old 5-series, and I'll buy another only if I get a ridiculously good deal like I did before. Otherwise, the very apparent goodness of a BMW, to ME, isn't worth the price premium.

    Its subjective, really. Perhaps emotionally, it has everything. Empirically, the 550i is a poor choice.

  4. #19
    Zorb750 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: BMW 550i - What a waste

    As before, I like the BMW for the same reason as the Cadillacs of my style. Davesdeville should get that one perfectly, his car's fairly similar to mine. Poke around the interior, examine everything, then do the same to a CTS, then to a BMW 5 series. The BMW 5 is about the same as the Eldorado is. The CTS is surprisingly cheap, actually really cheap. Not Econobox cheap, but not a Cadillac at all in interior quality. Probably why it costs so little.

  5. #20
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    Re: BMW 550i - What a waste

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorb750
    As before, I like the BMW for the same reason as the Cadillacs of my style. Davesdeville should get that one perfectly, his car's fairly similar to mine. Poke around the interior, examine everything, then do the same to a CTS, then to a BMW 5 series. The BMW 5 is about the same as the Eldorado is. The CTS is surprisingly cheap, actually really cheap. Not Econobox cheap, but not a Cadillac at all in interior quality. Probably why it costs so little.

    Guess what, I did this. I looked very hard at the BMW 550I, very hard. The interior is marginally better than the CTS-V. It had wood, which was nice, but the guage layout and and nav layout I did not care for and the rest of the interior had plastic too.

    Why is the CTS interior suprisingly cheap? Lack of wood accent? I actually like the CTS-V seats much better. The suede inserts are genius and very very comfortable. The stock 5 series seats are uncomfortable. You either need to pay for the sport package and get the sport seats or even upgrade to the comfort seats to get a comfy seat.

    Does the BMW have overall better material on the interior? Yes, but IMO marginally and definatly not 20k better. Check the E60 forums, there are plenty of people over there complaining about their transmissions and electronics. The 5 series is electronic overkill and it shows in many of the cars, especially the 04. Do a search on "software upgrade" and see how many hits you get.

  6. #21
    Cadillacboy's Avatar
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    Re: BMW 550i - What a waste

    How stupid people these who buy that rubbit hutch shape ugly car . It's nothing but wasting such an enormous amount of money to have a goofy desire

  7. #22
    gobuster is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: BMW 550i - What a waste

    I must confess that I think the E60 5 series has an ugly interior that is an ergonomic nightmare. I've not driven one but hear it is not as good as my E39 540i, a car I have the greatest respect for. Utimately, all the cars discussed here are pretty quick and the fact that one may beat the other in a drag is basically unimportant. I've driven the CTS-V and 300 SRT 8 and both are quicker than the 540, but, they lack the refinement, the balance and comfort that make the 540 so special. On a drive from, say Miami to Atlanta, none of those other cars could beat the 540i without driving insane speeds, yet I'll arrive fresh where as in a CTS-V or SRT 8 you will be beat up!

    Hopefully my E39 will last till the next generation of the 5 series, which, hopefully will have a decent interior and better styling to go along with it's superior driving dynamics.

    Rob

  8. #23
    toysnob is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: BMW 550i - What a waste

    Quote Originally Posted by gobuster
    I must confess that I think the E60 5 series has an ugly interior that is an ergonomic nightmare. I've not driven one but hear it is not as good as my E39 540i, a car I have the greatest respect for. Utimately, all the cars discussed here are pretty quick and the fact that one may beat the other in a drag is basically unimportant. I've driven the CTS-V and 300 SRT 8 and both are quicker than the 540, but, they lack the refinement, the balance and comfort that make the 540 so special. On a drive from, say Miami to Atlanta, none of those other cars could beat the 540i without driving insane speeds, yet I'll arrive fresh where as in a CTS-V or SRT 8 you will be beat up!

    Hopefully my E39 will last till the next generation of the 5 series, which, hopefully will have a decent interior and better styling to go along with it's superior driving dynamics.

    Rob
    Well put. Everything said in this thread by the pro-BMW posters can easily be said too of the Audi S4 in the thread entitled "S4 vs. CTS-V....". I was banging the same drum in that thread but earwax seemed to prevent folks from hearing me.

    Cars from BMW and Audi are not just desirable because of a logo or badge, but because by and large they offer more refined driving experiences, more reliability, genuine luxury as opposed to faux-luxury and obviously higher build quality.

    I have never been a fan of BMW's interiors, at least compared to Audis, they come in a distant 2nd, but so does pretty much every car under $90k. But puleez, if you're going to compare a BMW interior to a GM, BMW will come out looking decadent.

    I see a lot of manufacturers that try to copy German interiors. Even Volvo does it. The brushed aluminum look found in Altimas, Cadillacs/GMs, etc. don't measure up to the trim in the S4. I mean really, the leather on the S4's doors are so thick you can't feel the door that sits beneath them.

    Or let's talk about the seats. The S4 comes with Recaro sport seating, with driver-side lumbar support. And the "genius" fake suede in the CTS-V? Yeah, it has been in the Audi S4 for the past 6 years, and it's otherwise found in Maseratis and other high end european cars.

    I could go on. We could talk about paint quality (those found in cars from BMW, MB and Audi look better than what is on a GM and offer better protection and long term aging).

    Or how about the leather stitching? The stitching on the CTS-V's steering wheel looks cheap compared to the wheels found in the S4 or RS4.

    Then there's the layout of the console, which on european cars usually outscores American and Japanese cars by leaps and bounds. Even Volvo, whose dashboards can sometimes be so neat that they apear cold, would be preferable to what's found in GM.

    The funniest thing I saw today was a black Chrysler 300C with silver side view mirrors. I don't know if that is stock or if it was a modification, but it makes me laugh since that is a signature of the S and RS Audis.

    Exterior styling, exhaust note, etc, etc, etc, etc.. Sometimes you do get what you pay for.

  9. #24
    Jesda's Avatar
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    Re: BMW 550i - What a waste

    The flaws on a GM product are usually skin deep. When an Audi fails you, it leaves you stranded in a bad part of town, waiting for a tow to a dealer that will treat you like dirt and rob you blind. German dependability does not apply to Audi-VW.

  10. #25
    Randy_W is offline Banned
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    Re: BMW 550i - What a waste

    the BMW's transmission is flawless, near telepathic,
    I find this quite a compliment to GM, since BMW has been using GM automatic transmissions for years! GM was building and selling 5 speed autos to BMW long before using them in their own cars. Rolls and Bently as well as Jaguar also used GM trannys.

  11. #26
    toysnob is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: BMW 550i - What a waste

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesda
    The flaws on a GM product are usually skin deep. When an Audi fails you, it leaves you stranded in a bad part of town, waiting for a tow to a dealer that will treat you like dirt and rob you blind. German dependability does not apply to Audi-VW.
    Sounds like you're spreading FUD to me. Do you work for 60 Minutes? I remember the hatchet job they did on Audi a decade ago over the mysterious automatically accellerating Audi 5000s, which turned out to be idiot drivers slamming on the gas before taking the car out of Park.

    I've had no problems with my S4 after 10k miles. On the other hand Mercedes Benz over the past 5 years has had serious quality assurance issues. Amongst the Germans, Audi is at the top of the list lately, I don't know where you're getting your information from.

    You can believe what you want, but the quality of German cars is obviously above American cars. Just slam the door shut on your CTS-V.. Nice clanky sound.. Slam the trunk or door on an S4 or 3 series.. A nice solid thuddd!

    And I don't know how you can say GM's problems are only skin deep. When a car is loud and noisy at highway speeds and starts to shimmy, I don't call that skin deep.

    And from what I hear, the reason the CTS-V is being pushed off the lot for over $10k off MSRP is because they keep breaking. This opinion comes from one of your fellow CTS fans, check the S4 vs. CTS-V thread for more info.

    Skin deep? Uhuh..

  12. #27
    CVP33's Avatar
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    Re: BMW 550i - What a waste

    [quote=toysnob]You can believe what you want, but the quality of German cars is obviously above American cars. Just slam the door shut on your CTS-V.. Nice clanky sound.. Slam the trunk or door on an S4 or 3 series.. A nice solid thuddd!

    quote]

    Sorry toysnob but that's just not true. One of the first things I noticed is how solid the CTS-V sounded when the door is shut, as is the SRT-8 for that matter. I won't argue the other points because frankly we've been there already.

  13. #28
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    Re: BMW 550i - What a waste

    CVP33, if the CTS-V and SRT-8 doesn't suffer from this problem then that is a good improvement, GM should now bring this "feature" to all of their cars. As is the cases on the lowest Jetta or Golf, none of VAGs cars have this issue and there's no reason why GM should be different.

  14. #29
    CVP33's Avatar
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    Re: BMW 550i - What a waste

    Quote Originally Posted by toysnob
    CVP33, if the CTS-V and SRT-8 doesn't suffer from this problem then that is a good improvement, GM should now bring this "feature" to all of their cars. As is the cases on the lowest Jetta or Golf, none of VAGs cars have this issue and there's no reason why GM should be different.
    Domestic quality is getting better, much better. I had some bad luck with my CTS-V but I have a 2002 Tahoe with 70,000 miles and absolutely no issues and a quiet/tight interior. We also have a 2000 LHS which had some issues early on, but has been scary reliable now with over 115,000 miles. My SRT-8 is driven as if I raped a nun at a Police picnic and I'm trying to escape and I've had no issues.

    But don't use my anectdotal evidence, just look up JD Power. Buick, Caddy and other domestics are climbing up while some Europeans and Japanese vehicles decline.

  15. #30
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    Re: BMW 550i - What a waste

    Here's the facts. I high-lighted the one's that I thought our group would find surprising.

    2006 Nameplate IQS Ranking
    PROBLEMS PER 100 VEHICLES
    Porsche 91
    Lexus 93
    Hyundai 102
    Toyota 106
    Jaguar 109
    Honda 110
    Cadillac 117
    Infiniti 117
    GMC 119
    Acura 120
    Chrysler 120
    Lincoln 121
    Nissan 121
    Chevrolet 124
    Industry Average 124
    Ford 127
    Mercury 129
    Saturn 129
    Audi 130
    Dodge 132
    Pontiac 133
    Volvo 133
    Buick 134
    Mitsubishi 135
    Kia 136
    Mercedes-Benz 139
    Scion 140
    BMW 142
    Subaru 146
    Mazda 150
    MINI 150
    Jeep 153
    Saab 163
    Suzuki 169
    HUMMER 171
    Volkswagen 171
    Isuzu 191
    Land Rover 204

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