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Cadillac or competing brand model ? Why ? Discussion, 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!! in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; Originally Posted by AElayyat I work at a dealership, and I have drove (so far) 2 93 Fleetwood Broughams (both ...
  1. #31
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    Re: 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by AElayyat
    I work at a dealership, and I have drove (so far) 2 93 Fleetwood Broughams (both with the Brougham Package) and 2 97 Town Cars (1 Cartier the other Sig. Sieres).

    I have to say this, I have always liked the look of the Town Cars, and I think that they are good cars, but I must give it up to Cadillac. The only plus for the Town Car over the Caddy, is that the Town Car is a hair quiter in the ride, but the Caddy's have more power, better handeling, and softer rides, in my opinion. I also think that the leather GM used in the Caddy's is nicer than that in the Town Car. I hope this helps.
    Hmmm... I've never driven a 93-96 Fleetwood Brougham. I tried to test drive a '94 FWB with 89k miles, but the owner of the dealership wouldnt let me drive it b/c I wasnt gonna buy it at the time, so I just looked at it and sat in it.

    Anyways, for 89k miles that car was in pretty poor condition. The plastic wood panels were coming off the doors...just like in my Buick. That shows lack of quality and really a lack of care by GM. "Hey this car is only gonna be made for three more years...lets not throw too much money or effort into it." Plus, the headliner was sagging a bit in the rear. Not too much, but maybe like an inch. Again, a lack of quality and care. This car was dark blue velour and on the center armrest..the velour was wearing through so you could see what was under the velour. Again, low budget, low quality. And another thing that surprised me was the seats were actually were actually quite firm. Fronts and backs, is that normal? Or was it just this example? Because when I think "Fleetwood Brougham" I think of seats that are very very soft and lazy-boy like, not this firm shit. Leave that to the germans.

    Anyways from my poor experience in that FWB and the good experience in all three Town Car's I've drove, I'll take the Town Car.


    But between a '92 Brougham D'Elegance 5.7 and a '96 Town Car Signature or Cartier edition....I dunno....

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    Re: 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!!

    The Caddies seat padding has a tendancy to deteriorate rather quickly. I can't remember which year it was but they eventually came out with a high-durability seat cushion material, which became standard on commercial cars (R1P, V4U, B9Q etc). The seats you sat on were most likely repadded by a local upholstry shop. I used to do them all the time. It was also quite common for the seat frames (they're actually more of a sheet metal pan) to crack and come apart. I had to custom weld and rebuild MANY. Seat backs would commonly twist, leaving the right side of the driver's seat back leaning back a bit. Personally, I always thought it was caused by drivers leaning back to get money out of their pockets. Dash pads would crack (mainly '93-'94) om the ends. "B" pillar upholstry would rub through (mainly on the driver's side). The driver's seat recliner switch would get torn out of the frame and/or tear the surrounding upholstry. The list goes on and on.

  3. #33
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    Re: 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by I~LUV~Caddys8792
    Hmmm... I've never driven a 93-96 Fleetwood Brougham. I tried to test drive a '94 FWB with 89k miles, but the owner of the dealership wouldnt let me drive it b/c I wasnt gonna buy it at the time, so I just looked at it and sat in it.

    Anyways, for 89k miles that car was in pretty poor condition. The plastic wood panels were coming off the doors...just like in my Buick. That shows lack of quality and really a lack of care by GM. "Hey this car is only gonna be made for three more years...lets not throw too much money or effort into it." Plus, the headliner was sagging a bit in the rear. Not too much, but maybe like an inch. Again, a lack of quality and care. This car was dark blue velour and on the center armrest..the velour was wearing through so you could see what was under the velour. Again, low budget, low quality. And another thing that surprised me was the seats were actually were actually quite firm. Fronts and backs, is that normal? Or was it just this example? Because when I think "Fleetwood Brougham" I think of seats that are very very soft and lazy-boy like, not this firm shit. Leave that to the germans.

    Anyways from my poor experience in that FWB and the good experience in all three Town Car's I've drove, I'll take the Town Car.


    But between a '92 Brougham D'Elegance 5.7 and a '96 Town Car Signature or Cartier edition....I dunno....
    Based on what I have seen, (I am not being biased here) but the Caddys have better build quality/matierials. For example look at a Caddy w/ 80K and a Town Car w/80, the drivers side leather in the Town Car will be ready to crack, while the Fleetwood's leather still has some life to it. Now both cars will have been maintained the same, garaged, etc.

    I also like some of the other members here think that the Fleetwood looks more elegant and luxerious than the Town Car.

  4. #34
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    Re: 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!!

    Well the Fleetwood certainly stands out more than a Town Car. It's definetly got much more presence. It's a real throwback to the '70s models, whereas the Town Car fits in more in the '90s.

    In that '96 Executive Series I almost bought with 134k miles, the leather was in mint condition, and it was very very supple and high quality. In the '94 Signature Series I drove with 149k miles, the leather was starting to crack, around the edges of the seat, but it was nothing too bad. The leather in the Lincolns always seemed more soft and supple, whereas the GM leather always seemed firmer and more like a vinyl IMO.

  5. #35
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    Re: 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!!

    well that goes back also to how well the vehicle was maintained. the previous owner probably didnt give a damn about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by I~LUV~Caddys8792

    Anyways, for 89k miles that car was in pretty poor condition. The plastic wood panels were coming off the doors...just like in my Buick. That shows lack of quality and really a lack of care by GM. "Hey this car is only gonna be made for three more years...lets not throw too much money or effort into it." Plus, the headliner was sagging a bit in the rear. Not too much, but maybe like an inch. Again, a lack of quality and care. This car was dark blue velour and on the center armrest..the velour was wearing through so you could see what was under the velour. Again, low budget, low quality. And another thing that surprised me was the seats were actually were actually quite firm. Fronts and backs, is that normal? Or was it just this example? Because when I think "Fleetwood Brougham" I think of seats that are very very soft and lazy-boy like, not this firm shit. Leave that to the germans.

    Anyways from my poor experience in that FWB and the good experience in all three Town Car's I've drove, I'll take the Town Car.


    But between a '92 Brougham D'Elegance 5.7 and a '96 Town Car Signature or Cartier edition....I dunno....
    but anyway, i had a 96 TC for about a week, had tranny problems and a replacement transmission. i sold it to a friend of mine who put the new tranny in and the car runs and looks like it just came off the show room floor. its juiced of course but rides like a dream. i love the car and wish i hadnt sold it. but it was nothing compared to my Fleetwood. everything about the Fleetwood i liked more than the TC. the style, the interior, size, hell even the engine (even though it was the LO5 there are plenty of performance options for them). plus the rarity factor and all... now the 90-92... well 80-92 Fleetwood Brougham/ Broughams are very nice, i love the long low look, the box style and all. but i dont think they look as good as a big body Fleetwood. but i like both for what they are. i would take a 93-96 Fleetwood over any older Cadillac (or new one for that matter save for the V series lines or a XLR).

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    Re: 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!!

    I do admit, the seats in my 91 Deville were more cushy than my 94 Fleetwood, but the 94 Fleetwood seats (leather) are more supportive, which is what I like better. I agree, more padding would be nice though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot
    That's not always a fair statement. Perfect example is the LT1 cars. They net better mileage than many cars with similar power.
    I didn't mean it to be a blanket statement, but it is fairly accurate. The 91 Deville vs the LT1 is a good case you are correct. The EPA rating is 16/25 on the 4.9L Deville, and the EPA rating on the LT1 w/2.56 is 17/26. Even with 2.93's it is 17/25.

    But go compare a 1994 TC, Cadillac Fleetwood LT1 and a Lexus LS400 for fuel economy. The Lexus and LT1 share HP, and fuel economy. Even though the LS400 is a 4.0L V8, it is still getting the same mileage. The Lincoln is 210 hp, and same mileage. That is my point. Same year to same year, keeping average techology the same (like not comparing a LT1 to a 4.9L, or a LT1 to a L05, etc).

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    Re: 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!!

    How does the Fleetwood Brougham's steering compare to the Town Cars? The Town Car's steering is very very light, but it is driver adjustable. The Fleetwood Brougham's steering is speed sensitive, if the 93-96's steering is anything like the 1990 I drove, its much lighter than a Town Car's.


    I really need to go out and test drive them back to back.

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    Re: 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot
    The Caddies seat padding has a tendancy to deteriorate rather quickly. I can't remember which year it was but they eventually came out with a high-durability seat cushion material, which became standard on commercial cars (R1P, V4U, B9Q etc). The seats you sat on were most likely repadded by a local upholstry shop. I used to do them all the time. It was also quite common for the seat frames (they're actually more of a sheet metal pan) to crack and come apart. I had to custom weld and rebuild MANY. Seat backs would commonly twist, leaving the right side of the driver's seat back leaning back a bit. Personally, I always thought it was caused by drivers leaning back to get money out of their pockets. Dash pads would crack (mainly '93-'94) om the ends. "B" pillar upholstry would rub through (mainly on the driver's side). The driver's seat recliner switch would get torn out of the frame and/or tear the surrounding upholstry. The list goes on and on.
    Weird that you mention this, because I was just about to ask on here if anyone knew of any seating material changes over the years.

    I always enjoyed the "just right" level of softness and firmness in the '93 Fleetwood, but then noticed that side by side, it seems almost like my '95 has firmer padding in the seats. Both are Broughams, and the leather feels about equal, but the padding, particularly in the back seat, is considerably firmer than it is in the '93.

    As for TC's, though I do like most everything about the newer ones (never sat in a "box" version), the one thing I could never stand--the uncomfortable, MARSHMALLOW seats. Soft is one thing, but when the padding is so weak, your butt sinks down and onto the metal frame underneath, something is wrong.

    I noticed this in EVERY '03-06 model I've been in, some moreso than others, and it always bugged me in exactly the same way as my grandfather's '94 Ford Aerostar van...seats look nice and are covered in nice materials, but it'd be nice to have so decently firmed up padding so my arse didn't have to rest on the metal frame underneath.

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    Re: 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by N0DIH
    I do admit, the seats in my 91 Deville were more cushy than my 94 Fleetwood, but the 94 Fleetwood seats (leather) are more supportive, which is what I like better. I agree, more padding would be nice though.



    I didn't mean it to be a blanket statement, but it is fairly accurate. The 91 Deville vs the LT1 is a good case you are correct. The EPA rating is 16/25 on the 4.9L Deville, and the EPA rating on the LT1 w/2.56 is 17/26. Even with 2.93's it is 17/25.

    But go compare a 1994 TC, Cadillac Fleetwood LT1 and a Lexus LS400 for fuel economy. The Lexus and LT1 share HP, and fuel economy. Even though the LS400 is a 4.0L V8, it is still getting the same mileage. The Lincoln is 210 hp, and same mileage. That is my point. Same year to same year, keeping average techology the same (like not comparing a LT1 to a 4.9L, or a LT1 to a L05, etc).
    But what is the final drive ratio on those cars? Plus, don't forget the EPA estimates don't get real specific. Different sub-models (like SLS/STS) have the same EPA ratings even though they get quite different actual numbers.

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    Re: 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by I~LUV~Caddys8792
    How does the Fleetwood Brougham's steering compare to the Town Cars? The Town Car's steering is very very light, but it is driver adjustable. The Fleetwood Brougham's steering is speed sensitive, if the 93-96's steering is anything like the 1990 I drove, its much lighter than a Town Car's.


    I really need to go out and test drive them back to back.
    Don't later model T/Cs have rack and pinion steering?

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    Re: 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!!

    Up until atleast 1999, Town Cars had variable assist (driver selectable) recirculating ball steering. As for 2000 and newer, I dont have the information beyond 1999.

    As for the 1998-2006 Town Cars, I would never buy one. I think they are very ugly, plus they don't ride very well, nothing like a 1990-97 Town Car. My father picked one up as a rental when my deVille was in the bodyshop getting the driver's side door fixed. I rode in it twice and was not impressed at all.

    If the choice was between that and a LT1 Fleetwood Brougham, I would take the FWB in a heartbeat, I would even take a '81 Brougham with the V 8-6-4 over a 98-06 Town Car.

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    Re: 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!!

    Well after racing a Saturn Ion sedan tonight and barely winning, I've decided my next car must have significantly more power... This LT1 FWB is starting to look more appealing FDC or no FDC.

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    Re: 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!!

    And here's my dream LT1 FWB!



    1995 FWB, Calypso Green, Neutral Leather interior.

    1992 DTS (2.93:1 performance ratio) 0-100: 26.7
    1994 Fleetwood (2.56:1 rear axle) 0-100: 22.8
    1995 Grand Marquis (similar to Town Car) 0-100: 24.3

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    Re: 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!!

    It is very easy to get these cars to run 14s with just bolt ons... a good friend of mine runs 13.4 with his 1995 Fleetwood in the 1/4.

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    Re: 1990 and newer Brougham/Fleetwood Brougham, your likes and dislikes!!

    Yeah I remember when I had my LT1 Roadmaster, I would look through the Jegs and Summit Racing Catalogs and I would dream about what I would put on that car if I had the money.

    LT4 Conversion kit: $2000, ~425 hp
    Powerdyne Centrifugal Supercharger Kits: 6.0PSI: $5690.69 ~390 hp.

    If I could do them both together, It would be around 640hp! Which with the 4500lb curb weight would put this at a 11-12 second 1/4 mile!

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