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Cadillac or competing brand model ? Why ? Discussion, Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII? in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; Originally Posted by davesdeville That's nice. If I put a Northstar in a streamliner, it would do well over 200. ...
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    Re: Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII?

    Quote Originally Posted by davesdeville
    That's nice. If I put a Northstar in a streamliner, it would do well over 200. Doesn't prove anything about top end power. Fact is, the northstar revs out 500rpm higher than the Ford's 4.6, and it's peak HP is several hundred RPMs higher as well.
    WTF does a N* in a streamliner have to do with anything? I'm talking stock for stock the Mark VIII has a better top end then a N* ETC, STS, etc.

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    Re: Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII?

    I generally prefer the N* for performance, but the 4.6 leaks less and has fewer issues (no issues) with head gaskets.

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    Re: Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackout
    WTF does a N* in a streamliner have to do with anything? I'm talking stock for stock the Mark VIII has a better top end then a N* ETC, STS, etc.
    Your example of the Mark going 180 doesn't have a lot to do with the top end power of the motor (which is what I was talking about in my first post.) It's simply a more aerodynamic car.

    Kevin, redline is 500rpm higher (6500) on the Northstar, compared to the 6000rpm redline on the Mark. As you said the peak HP is at a higher RPM with a Northstar. And after driving both I'd say it's enough info to say that if anything the Northstar has better top end power than the "Intech" 4.6 in the Mark VIII.

    If you say the Mark has a higher top speed it wouldn't surprise me too much. Are all of them limited to 140 stock or are there un-limited versions like my ETC? The "stock" Mark VIII that ran 181 can not exactly have been stock, I mean hell the older 450hp vipers couldn't manage 181 - that's more power and similar if not better aerodynamics.

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    Re: Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII?

    The Mark VIII's were limited too 126mph. All Ford did with the Mark VIII was put on dropped speed rated tires and a roll cage and let it loose on the Salt Flats. Here's the certificate:



    But after racing a DTS as well as a STS from a roll I never had an issue with beating one. But who knows. We can go back and forth saying this car has a better top end then that car all day.

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    Re: Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII?

    Quote Originally Posted by davesdeville
    Your example of the Mark going 180 doesn't have a lot to do with the top end power of the motor (which is what I was talking about in my first post.) It's simply a more aerodynamic car.

    Kevin, redline is 500rpm higher (6500) on the Northstar, compared to the 6000rpm redline on the Mark. As you said the peak HP is at a higher RPM with a Northstar. And after driving both I'd say it's enough info to say that if anything the Northstar has better top end power than the "Intech" 4.6 in the Mark VIII.

    If you say the Mark has a higher top speed it wouldn't surprise me too much. Are all of them limited to 140 stock or are there un-limited versions like my ETC? The "stock" Mark VIII that ran 181 can not exactly have been stock, I mean hell the older 450hp vipers couldn't manage 181 - that's more power and similar if not better aerodynamics.
    Dave,
    I'm not sure why you think the higher redline means anything with respect to top-end power. Revving the Northstar past 6000rpm (where it's making it's max power) will only translate to a gradual LOSS of power. Personally, I've never been in an un-governed Northstar car at or near it's top speed but I'd be willing to bet that it "probably" won't make it to 6000rpm in top gear, let alone anywhere near it's 6500rpm redline. I doubt the MKVIII would either so this arguement is rather silly. Be that as it may, I HAVE driven both cars and my 2 cents is that the Northstar cars are much stronger off the line but the Lincoln feels stronger at anything above a crawl. And definately, on the highway, I think the MKVIII will pull away from a ETC or STS.

    Another point that seems to have been over-looked is that of max. TORQUE. On these two cars it is at a much lower rpm than max HP and while the Caddy reaches max. HP at a higher rpm than the Lincoln, the Lincoln actually reaches it's max. TORQUE at a higher rpm than the Caddy. Again, like I said before, there's so many variables in this comparison that it's very difficult to make any "absolute" conclusions.

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    Re: Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackout
    WTF does a N* in a streamliner have to do with anything? I'm talking stock for stock the Mark VIII has a better top end then a N* ETC, STS, etc.
    i'm no expert in this matter,but i can tell you this,i've never had to follow a Lincoln in my 94 STS,and yes some are fairly quick.from what i read on the Lincoln,they peaked out to 290bhp in the Mark VIII(still not quite 300bhp like the Cadillacs).and no the Lincoln engine is'nt exactly similiar to the Cobra engine,so don't even go there.at least Cadillac did in fact build a legitimate "stock out of the box" 300bhp motor.Lincoln could'nt match the Eldo's,and STS's power.it was only when a grease-monkey took his/her wrench to those cars,and tried to make them run "half way decent".i would'nt be caught riding in a Mark VIII.all the one's i see,usually be dragging the bottom end.i guess it's because that useless goofy looking airbag system finally collapsed.what a joke!!!!!! Lincoln was embarassed as usual with that ugly car.i guess that's why they're dead,and rusting away.

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    Re: Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haleykeek
    i'm no expert in this matter,but i can tell you this,i've never had to follow a Lincoln in my 94 STS,and yes some are fairly quick.from what i read on the Lincoln,they peaked out to 290bhp in the Mark VIII(still not quite 300bhp like the Cadillacs).and no the Lincoln engine is'nt exactly similiar to the Cobra engine,so don't even go there.at least Cadillac did in fact build a legitimate "stock out of the box" 300bhp motor.Lincoln could'nt match the Eldo's,and STS's power.it was only when a grease-monkey took his/her wrench to those cars,and tried to make them run "half way decent".i would'nt be caught riding in a Mark VIII.all the one's i see,usually be dragging the bottom end.i guess it's because that useless goofy looking airbag system finally collapsed.what a joke!!!!!! Lincoln was embarassed as usual with that ugly car.i guess that's why they're dead,and rusting away.
    So lets see......your no expert in the manner but yet you claim you know all this stuff and are quick to call a car a joke and the company being embarrassed about it. Your knowledge on either one of these cars or engine's is probably so minute that you had to go online and look up the power out put of each. And what do you mean the Lincoln's engine isn't exectly similar to a Cobra engine? The only difference's are the bottom end and the heads. They are identical down to the bore and stroke, compression ratio, etc. The only thing that killed the Mark VIII from a performance stand point was it had a automatic. In my stock 1995 Mark VIII with a slipping transmission and a bad MLPS sensor and really crappy tires I ran a 14.921. Guys in stock LSC's have run as fast as 14.2 in stock trim. But at the end of the day I'll take a RWD, less hp engine that runs faster then a more powerful FWD car anyday of the week.

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    Re: Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII?

    In 1993, Ford released the all-aluminum DOHC 4.6 in the Lincoln Mark VIII, which became the predecessor to the Cobra V-8.
    Taken straight from Mucle Mustangs and Fast Fords website.
    http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...MMFF_MixMatch/
    do your homework before you run off with the mouth

    http://www.answers.com/topic/ford-modular-engine

    Here's another good link so you can brush up on the 4.6

  9. #39
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    Re: Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII?

    Yeah the Mark VIII's are pretty great cars, His review was extremely biased and opinionated..

    FYI, the VIII died because of a diminishing market segment, same with the Eldorado and Riviera.

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    Re: Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII?

    Quote Originally Posted by I~LUV~Caddys8792
    Yeah the Mark VIII's are pretty great cars, His review was extremely biased and opinionated..
    FYI, the VIII died because of a diminishing market segment, same with the Eldorado and Riviera.
    Exactly. Nobody really wanted 2 door cars anymore. At the time that was when the SUV's were starting to get big and everybody wanted 4 door cars.

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    Re: Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot
    Dave,
    I'm not sure why you think the higher redline means anything with respect to top-end power. Revving the Northstar past 6000rpm (where it's making it's max power) will only translate to a gradual LOSS of power. Personally, I've never been in an un-governed Northstar car at or near it's top speed but I'd be willing to bet that it "probably" won't make it to 6000rpm in top gear, let alone anywhere near it's 6500rpm redline. I doubt the MKVIII would either so this arguement is rather silly.
    Yes revving it out past 6000 means a loss of power... hence the peak power being listed as 300 at 6000rpm. Less of a loss of power than shifting though. My particular ETC likes to shift at about 6100 in D and 6500 in 1 or 2... holding it to 6500 is worth 2 tenths. The extra 500rpm do make a good difference.

    Be that as it may, I HAVE driven both cars and my 2 cents is that the Northstar cars are much stronger off the line but the Lincoln feels stronger at anything above a crawl. And definately, on the highway, I think the MKVIII will pull away from a ETC or STS.
    Like I've said I've driven both as well. Funny I've experianced the opposite being true, the Mark gets a lil jump off the line (even with RT being similar) and I reel it in and pass around the 660' mark.

    I guess there's only one way to really determine it. Sometime in late Feb I'm expecting my friend with the Mark VIII to return from Phoenix for a few days. I *might* go visit him out there. Either way, next time we'll do a few races from a dig, couple from a 25 roll, couple from a 60 roll, maybe even a 100 roll and get it on video. We're both stock, with the exception of my Magnaflows (on stock pipes) and his lack of mufflers. (The car is surprisingly rather quiet inside and out for having no mufflers.) He's got a video camera, I've got RCA inputs on my video card.

    Another point that seems to have been over-looked is that of max. TORQUE. On these two cars it is at a much lower rpm than max HP and while the Caddy reaches max. HP at a higher rpm than the Lincoln, the Lincoln actually reaches it's max. TORQUE at a higher rpm than the Caddy. Again, like I said before, there's so many variables in this comparison that it's very difficult to make any "absolute" conclusions.
    Max torque at a higher RPM isn't necissarily a good thing though...


    Blackout, sorry, that is far from a stock Mark VIII. If you truly believe it's stock I think that's a bit foolish. I sniffed around markviii.org and even many of them don't think it's stock... heard plenty of things people there were "remembering" IE narrower tires, lowered 4," straight pipes, etc. Who knows what the real deal is with that run, but as far as I'm concerned it can not be a stock 280hp car with that much frontal surface area (it's no small car) pulling 181mph... even with a coefficent of drag as low as the Mark must be.

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    Re: Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII?

    Quote Originally Posted by davesdeville
    Like I've said I've driven both as well. Funny I've experianced the opposite being true, the Mark gets a lil jump off the line (even with RT being similar) and I reel it in and pass around the 660' mark.
    I guess there's only one way to really determine it. Sometime in late Feb I'm expecting my friend with the Mark VIII to return from Phoenix for a few days. I *might* go visit him out there. Either way, next time we'll do a few races from a dig, couple from a 25 roll, couple from a 60 roll, maybe even a 100 roll and get it on video. We're both stock, with the exception of my Magnaflows (on stock pipes) and his lack of mufflers. (The car is surprisingly rather quiet inside and out for having no mufflers.) He's got a video camera, I've got RCA inputs on my video card.
    If a Mark VIII is able to get the jump on you from the line then thats sad because the Mark VIII has very little power down low and gets off the line like a slug.

    Max torque at a higher RPM isn't necissarily a good thing though...
    True but when racing from a roll having the max tq up high is better then having it down low which would give the Mark a better advantage.

    Blackout, sorry, that is far from a stock Mark VIII. If you truly believe it's stock I think that's a bit foolish. I sniffed around markviii.org and even many of them don't think it's stock... heard plenty of things people there were "remembering" IE narrower tires, lowered 4," straight pipes, etc. Who knows what the real deal is with that run, but as far as I'm concerned it can not be a stock 280hp car with that much frontal surface area (it's no small car) pulling 181mph... even with a coefficent of drag as low as the Mark must be.
    After digging into it more this is what I found:
    The engine was bone stock. All that was done to it was it being blue printed.
    It had no cat's and a dual exhaust.
    The engine made 290-295 hp on the dyno
    The transmission was stock but they did search for rotating parts that had no imbalance and no runout on the shafts. Then we built the transmission with high clearance on the clutches and bands that would not be applied during the 3rd gear runs.
    The air suspension, which normally lowers the car about 20 mm when you get above a speed, was set to lower the car another 25 mm so the car would drop almost 2” from it’s static ride height.
    Aside from this, the only other changes to the car itself were removed rear brakes (for less drag), removed side view mirrors, some fabricated “belly pans” for under the car and some kind of air deflector behind the grill, and the skinny Bonneville tires. (Of course the car had a roll cage and a two-piece driveshaft).

    So in actuality there wasn't anything huge done to the car. Stock motor with no performance parts, a redone tranny, and they had the drop an extra 25mm. So basically 90% of the guys over at cadillacowners have these similar mods done and some have more done to their cars. But either way, Ford took home the plaque and a new record for their class. Does GM or Cadillac have that with a N* powered vehicle? Oh and with Bonneville having 4300 ft above sea level that 290 hp that Mark was putting out when they dynoed it was now 255-260 hp.

    EDIT: After reading more the car did run in the high 160 mph range with regular street legal Goodyear GSC's from the Corvette since that was the only tire approved for these speeds on the Mark and the side mirrors on. They then took the mirrors off and put on the skinny Bonneville tires and it ran 178 mph but they couldn't back up the run do to an issue at the track. So they then took off the rear brakes and its first run recorded a 180.794 and then backed up the time with a run of 182.694 for an average speed of 181.717 mph.

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    Re: Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII?

    Quote Originally Posted by davesdeville
    Yes revving it out past 6000 means a loss of power... hence the peak power being listed as 300 at 6000rpm. Less of a loss of power than shifting though. My particular ETC likes to shift at about 6100 in D and 6500 in 1 or 2... holding it to 6500 is worth 2 tenths. The extra 500rpm do make a good difference.
    Like I've said I've driven both as well. Funny I've experianced the opposite being true, the Mark gets a lil jump off the line (even with RT being similar) and I reel it in and pass around the 660' mark.
    I guess there's only one way to really determine it. Sometime in late Feb I'm expecting my friend with the Mark VIII to return from Phoenix for a few days. I *might* go visit him out there. Either way, next time we'll do a few races from a dig, couple from a 25 roll, couple from a 60 roll, maybe even a 100 roll and get it on video. We're both stock, with the exception of my Magnaflows (on stock pipes) and his lack of mufflers. (The car is surprisingly rather quiet inside and out for having no mufflers.) He's got a video camera, I've got RCA inputs on my video card.
    Max torque at a higher RPM isn't necissarily a good thing though...
    Blackout, sorry, that is far from a stock Mark VIII. If you truly believe it's stock I think that's a bit foolish. I sniffed around markviii.org and even many of them don't think it's stock... heard plenty of things people there were "remembering" IE narrower tires, lowered 4," straight pipes, etc. Who knows what the real deal is with that run, but as far as I'm concerned it can not be a stock 280hp car with that much frontal surface area (it's no small car) pulling 181mph... even with a coefficent of drag as low as the Mark must be.
    Dave,
    Your post is confusing. You original issue was top-end power, no 1/4 mile runs. I admit that in stock form the Caddy will pull the MKVIII in the 1/4 due to it's lack of off the line power. In your statement about your car shifting a few hundred rpm past peak power, and how it nets you a better 1/4 mile run is misleading. I hope you realize that by hanging the shift slightly beyond peak power, the loss of power is more than offset by getting further into the meat of the following gears's powerband. Obviously, that has nothing to do with our original issue since the car will already be in it's top gear. What's at issue here is what each car will do in it's top gear at well past the 100mph mark. At the very least, I'd maybe give you that we might be talking having to go through the last shift. You also seem to be forgetting that the MKVIII driver can do exactly what you do and hold his shift manually too in which case your "revving past peak power" theory will work equally well for either car.
    To be honest, I think it's quite obvious that you're going to keep twisting the scenario around in an effort to imply an advantage for your Caddy so I think it's time to just let this one go. Have fun racing your freind. Do yourself a favor though, race him from a dead stop if you want to retain your ego.

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    Re: Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII?

    Hell the day me and Katshot went to go pick up my Mark VIII on the way home we played around from a roll and we hit it and I was inching away from him in stock trim. We then raced from a dead stop another time and that out come was ummm......different to say the least

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    Re: Who here owns a Lincoln Mark VIII?

    Yeah it was! I left that Lincoln for DEAD!!!

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