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Cadillac or competing brand model ? Why ? Discussion, STS vs M5 in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; ...
  1. #76
    PerryT's Avatar
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    Re: STS vs M5

    Is this the LT1 vs. N* thread being refered to?

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...=lt1+northstar

    It is an interesting read. It is mostly a comparison of the two engines with a few pot shots thrown at the N*. I would fully agree that the LT1 is the better engine choice for a hotrodder that wants to modify his engine from stock. It also has a big displacement advantage and is easier to maintain. Important criteria for the hobbyist or racer.

    I would still argue the N* is a performance engine. The vast majority of current production automobiles do not have 300 hp. Mainly the high end performance and luxury cars do. The N* produced 295hp from 4.6L when it came out over ten years ago. That was huge back then. The new N*’s are pushing 320hp naturally aspirated. You won’t get much better from 4.6L without using forced induction or accepting performance tradoff’s such as loss of low end or streetability. When an engine is pushing the limits of its displacement and induction then it is most certainly designed for performance.

    Perry

  2. #77
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    Re: STS vs M5

    I think this quite from what my dad had to say sum's it up pretty good

    There's actually very little aftermarket stuff geared toward the Northstar. The reasons are as follows:

    1. Majority of Northstar owners are NOT liable to favor performance upgrades to their cars.
    2. In factory trim, the Northstar engine is NOT by any means ready for any "bolt-on" performance upgrades, especially forced induction.
    3. Cost of the Northstar engine is rather high and for that reason it does not easily lend itself to the DIY'r.
    4. The engine compartment of all Northstar equipped cars is too cramped and hot for doing most performance upgrades that would include addition of componentry.

    This is not to say that it CAN'T be done, there are a few people that have in fact, modified the Northstar engine for applications both in and out of Cadillac cars. The point is that the engine and the platforms it is found in, do not lend themselves to such modifications.

  3. #78
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    Re: STS vs M5

    And another quote as to why I'm not to fond of the Northstar

    And to answer Mikes questions:
    Northstars blow head gaskets because they suck.
    You have to use the coolant additive in Cadillac Aluminum engines because they suck. And Northstars burn oil because they suck.

    Ok...that was just to be funny.

    Northstar engines blow head gaskets because:
    1. Some engines were manufactured with improper size head bolts.
    2. Some engines were manufactured with improperly machined headbolt holes.
    3. Some engines were manufactured with improperly torqued heads.
    4. Some engines were manufactured with defective head gaskets.
    Take your pick.
    The coolant tabs are to help maintain the integrity of the cooling system, lubricate the pump, and help seal minor leaks. Without them, cylinder liner seals breakdown and leak allowing oil and water to mix (that's a bad thing), and eventually causing engine failure.
    Why do Northstar engines burn oil? Damn good question. Not all of them do. I've read the reports about aggressive cylinder cross-hatching and personally don't believe it. If that were the case, ALL the engines would use oil at virtually the same rate. This is NOT the case though. on this question, I'm likely to rely on my ORIGINAL comment above, they SUCK.

  4. #79
    Blackout's Avatar
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    Re: STS vs M5

    And I think this would be the last one

    And I know I mentioned it here before but just in case anybody missed it, there are Northstar failures under investigation right now that you guys have not even HEARD of yet. One I mentioned before was a block cracking problem that is being seen in an aweful lot of engines and there's supposedly NO EXPLANATION for it yet. Yes these are in higher mileage engines (approx. 150K miles) but there are a lot of Caddys out there with that kind of miles on them too.
    I will continue to say that even though the Northstar is an awesome engine when it's running properly, I DO NOT trust it's long-term reliability.
    And bearing that in mind, I have to point out that Cadillac has a very poor track record with its aluminum engines and it is probably the one largest reason for their having such a poor reputation in the marketplace.
    That, and their going to FWD has been a HUGE weight around their neck.
    Hopefully, their moving back to RWD signals their desire to get serious in their supposed target market. Now all they have to do is put a better engine in their cars.

  5. #80
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    Re: STS vs M5

    This goes back to the famous HRS vs. Scourge "Is this a race car" thread.

    Can we agree on this:

    Depending on platform, the N* can be a performance engine. However, it is certainly not the first choice when it comes time to increase performance, and is definitely outclassed by many competitors aftermarket-wise.

  6. #81
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    Re: STS vs M5

    Thank you, Brett.
    So Katshot is scripture to you? I like this one then:

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot
    In "stock" trim, the Northstar equipped cars WILL dog the Fleetwood for sure. They should either beat, or equal the SS. BUT.........it is VERY easy to boost the performance of the RWD Fleetwood and Impala SS compared to the FWD Northstar cars. So if you intend to leave the cars TOTALLY STOCK, an ETC or STS would be the hot ticket for performance. The Deville Concours will be a few ticks slower due to weight and tuning.

  7. #82
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    Re: STS vs M5

    Quote Originally Posted by gothicaleigh
    Thank you, Brett.
    So Katshot is scripture to you? I like this one then:
    I agree with Brett, But Katshot isn't a scripture to me, he's my father.

  8. #83
    Dubya is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: STS vs M5

    how old is the northstar? 11 years, comparing that to newer lexus technology is not releavant.

    the northstar came out in 93, 295 hp. lexus had a 4.0 i believe, with 250hp/260tq . lincoln had a 280hp/290tq (later upped to 290hp on the lsc's) 4.6v8. Corvette had a 300hp 5.7, ford used a what, 235hp in there COBRA mustang? what was the camaro at at that time? 275hp? wow, its numbers are right on track with REAL sports cars, if only it was lighter....oh wait, there's the series 1, fastest production american car at its time, sure it has a blower, but ford strapped a blower on top of its 5.4 and only came out with less power than the lil ol 4.0

    but what now? i guess you'll say its no longer a performance engine? because i guess a car can have a performance engine, and loose its status?

    and the 320hp northstar is also available in the SRX, 25,000 less than the xlr, and will be in the 2005 sts which is a few months away.

  9. #84
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    Re: STS vs M5

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubya
    and loose its status?
    I think you mean "lose"



    As "packaged" it is not a performance engine.

    That seems like a reasonable solution, lets try and leave it at that

  10. #85
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    Re: STS vs M5

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett
    I think you mean "lose"



    As "packaged" it is not a performance engine.

    That seems like a reasonable solution, lets try and leave it at that
    Dubya its done and over with. Once again Brett comes in with some good words

  11. #86
    Dubya is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: STS vs M5

    as packaged its not a performance car

    take the extreme, put a porsche engine in a tank, is it not a performance engine anymore? order a porsche crate engine, so it isnt a performance engnine untill its in the car?

    it is done

  12. #87
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    Re: STS vs M5

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubya
    as packaged its not a performance car

    take the extreme, put a porsche engine in a tank, is it not a performance engine anymore? order a porsche crate engine, so it isnt a performance engnine untill its in the car?

    it is done

  13. #88
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    Re: STS vs M5

    Good Posts my 96 STS recently whipped a Saleen by a few feet. That car was running 13.7 in the quarter mile. I took him to 90 before we stopped, but he seemed shocked when I turned the interior lights on and padded my dash board with love. I will be doing the 1/4 this friday and will post a video and my times on this forum. Email cruzajc1@aol.com only mod is a Dynomax Turbo exhaust. Trying to get a duct ran from the fog light area of my car to the intake duct for a little colder air, we will see.

    Gus in Valdosta

    11-0 in kills to date.

    4 Mustang GT's (various, but at least car length, 2 in some cases
    1 70 Lemans with a 4 barrel carb (4 car lenghts)
    1 Saleen (8 feet)
    1 Eagle Talon Turbo from a role (a half a car length)
    1 GT Supercharged Gran Prix i beleive the car was.
    a couple of ricers... I hate eating junk food, but I can't resist sometimes

    Gus in Valdosta
    cruzajc1@aol.com

  14. #89
    Mikethegreeat is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: STS vs M5

    Quote Originally Posted by cruzajc1
    Good Posts my 96 STS recently whipped a Saleen by a few feet. That car was running 13.7 in the quarter mile. I took him to 90 before we stopped, but he seemed shocked when I turned the interior lights on and padded my dash board with love. I will be doing the 1/4 this friday and will post a video and my times on this forum. Email cruzajc1@aol.com only mod is a Dynomax Turbo exhaust. Trying to get a duct ran from the fog light area of my car to the intake duct for a little colder air, we will see.

    Gus in Valdosta

    11-0 in kills to date.

    4 Mustang GT's (various, but at least car length, 2 in some cases
    1 70 Lemans with a 4 barrel carb (4 car lenghts)
    1 Saleen (8 feet)
    1 Eagle Talon Turbo from a role (a half a car length)
    1 GT Supercharged Gran Prix i beleive the car was.
    a couple of ricers... I hate eating junk food, but I can't resist sometimes

    Gus in Valdosta
    cruzajc1@aol.com

    where are you from? and are you BSing! what car do you have?

    also im planning on buying dynomax mufflers for my STS soon

    super turbos to be exact... what case size did you buy?

  15. #90
    156MPH's Avatar
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    Wink Re: STS vs M5

    I like the "scorecard" . I dont do ricers anymore unless they look impressive. I had raced numerous "redneck" pickups....why do they think if they put LOUD pipes on a dodge ram they think its fast?

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