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Cadillac or competing brand model ? Why ? Discussion, STS vs M5 in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; You know what i think the problem is with any front wheel drive car? Its the powertrain design.. its soo ...
  1. #16
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    Re: STS vs M5

    You know what i think the problem is with any front wheel drive car? Its the powertrain design.. its soo in-effecient compared to rear wheel drive cars. Yes BMW is planning for a V10 in its (correction!) M6 series. But reguardless, cadillacs decision to make a front wheel drive V8 was terrible! You've probably seen rice rockets that have so much technology into them, that bolster about 300+ hp if your lucky.. but the way it gets transmitted to the ground makes it molasses slow! Having a V8 coupled to a front wheel drive system is even worse, because not only do you have butt loads of power but lots of tourqe makes the tyres do even more work then they already are trying to steer and support the car.

    And for Cadillacs sake, the cars just too heavy and elegant to compete with a BMW M5 in the first place! Want to race an M5? Dont do it in a STS or Deville, but a CTS-V... the only car truely made to compete with the German rocket.

    Nice try though, sounds like it was a good fight till the M5 beat you in aerodynamics, horsepower, power transmission, weight and top end (lol) bouncer: .

  2. #17
    Ultra Slow is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: STS vs M5

    Front wheel drive is AWFUL, but it actually does one positive thing for the case here. Being that the STS is 300HP, more of that power actually gets to the ground VS a RWD car. If you compare a 300HP corvette of 1995 and a 300HP STS of 1995 on a dyno, the average STS will be about 15% higher in a case by case deal. For racing, this is good as it actually gives the STS the advantage over the LT1 automatic corvette in many cases, even though the car is 800-900LBS heavier. But on the same note, I would MUCH rather have a RWD STS, but in order to run like it does now, it needs to be about 330HP..... Funny how that is just the magic number the XLR is getting.

    As far as the M5, that is a strong motor with a 6 speed, but the car has no weight advantage over the STS, it just has a ton more power. The M5 is a heavy car. BMWs just keep getting bigger. I find it funny that the new "3" series is actually heavier and bulkier than my daily driver BMW... 1986 735.... Cars are getting large again!




    Quote Originally Posted by JefferyG
    You know what i think the problem is with any front wheel drive car? Its the powertrain design.. its soo in-effecient compared to rear wheel drive cars. Yes BMW is planning for a V10 in its (correction!) M6 series. But reguardless, cadillacs decision to make a front wheel drive V8 was terrible! You've probably seen rice rockets that have so much technology into them, that bolster about 300+ hp if your lucky.. but the way it gets transmitted to the ground makes it molasses slow! Having a V8 coupled to a front wheel drive system is even worse, because not only do you have butt loads of power but lots of tourqe makes the tyres do even more work then they already are trying to steer and support the car.

    And for Cadillacs sake, the cars just too heavy and elegant to compete with a BMW M5 in the first place! Want to race an M5? Dont do it in a STS or Deville, but a CTS-V... the only car truely made to compete with the German rocket.

    Nice try though, sounds like it was a good fight till the M5 beat you in aerodynamics, horsepower, power transmission, weight and top end (lol) bouncer: .

  3. #18
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    Re: STS vs M5

    a sts gets 15% more power down???......NO. the 4t80e is proven to have about 23-24% drivetrain loss, which is huge even for a fwd transmission. so your saying a corvette's trans has about 38-39% loss???? i don't know anything about corvette transmissions but id guess high teens, no way are they even close to the 30's. the 4t65ehd (L67's transmission) is in the range of 18-20% for comparison, the northstars suck for getting there power to the road. sure they make 300hp, but they only put down 225/230 tops.

    only advantage for racing is the engine is on top of the driving wheels, easier to launch on the same tires, but a vette can have some huge meat back there, not so much for a cadillac.

    don't mean to be a jerk, but where are you getting this info from? XLR is a low 14 second car too, more power---faster, not needs more power to be equal. maybe the same place that told you a impalla ss has 300hp?

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    Re: STS vs M5

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackout
    What do you men by add equal parts turbos or s/c's? The M5 is N/A so wtf you talking about?
    I mean if you want a car that will be one of the fastest cars on the planet get a cts-v and start modifying the easiest choice would be turbo's in which case you would be looking at 550-700 hp and at 3800 lbs (less than the current M5) it would not even be close!

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    Re: STS vs M5

    Quote Originally Posted by GERMEEZY1
    I mean if you want a car that will be one of the fastest cars on the planet get a cts-v

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    Re: STS vs M5

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra Slow
    The M5 is fast, but the new Mercedes make it look pretty slow now. You get the CL/SL/S 55 AMG, then you have a high 12 car, and 115MPH..... You get the CL/SL/S 600, you get the twin turbo 12 cyl, you have a mid 12 car at 118MPH, and a screemer part the short 1320 ft race. If that aint enough, there will be a CL/SL/S 65 AMG..... This will be 580HP and 700FT LBS. It will run high 11's and hit 200MPH...... This is the car to have if you want a fast sedan..... Aint no Vseries whatever going to keep up with this, and neither does the Viper. Also, they will have a Renntech upgrade for all these cars... The latter is supposed to be over 800HP with just an ECU upgrade.... These guys have killed everyone....
    I don't mean to be rude but you have no idea not even close to what you are talking about and I also thought this was a pro cadillac website. The CL65 AMG runs 0-60 in 4.4 seconds and does the quarter mile 12.6 @ 118 mph. A Viper and Corvette Z06 are faster. And as for your stupid numbers where did they come from a Mclaren F1 the fastest car ever does 11.1 in the quarter. And I know they will have 604 hp and 738 lb ft sounds like a lot? Another sobering fact they weigh 4800 lbs.....so before you start spouting off at the mouth at least know what you are talking about.

  7. #22
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    Re: STS vs M5

    You are right the 4T80E has a 24-28% loss through the transmission it is the most inefficient tranny GM makes. In comparison the 4T65E used in the Gran Prix for instance only has a 16-20% loss through the tranny. The reason why is because the Northstar is really too much engine. If it was not for the torque management software they would not be able to handle the power without really hard and rough shifts. To be competitive the next STS will have to run 0-60 in 6.2 seconds or less regardless of hp.

  8. #23
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    Re: STS vs M5

    Quote Originally Posted by GERMEEZY1
    I don't mean to be rude but you have no idea not even close to what you are talking about and I also thought this was a pro cadillac website. The CL65 AMG runs 0-60 in 4.4 seconds and does the quarter mile 12.6 @ 118 mph. A Viper and Corvette Z06 are faster. And as for your stupid numbers where did they come from a Mclaren F1 the fastest car ever does 11.1 in the quarter. And I know they will have 604 hp and 738 lb ft sounds like a lot? Another sobering fact they weigh 4800 lbs.....so before you start spouting off at the mouth at least know what you are talking about.
    Well what about a linginfelter Corvette runing 9 sec. 1/4's? yeah this is a Cadillac website but we respect all cars no matter what company they are from. If I had to choose between a $14k Kia and a $36k BMW and both have identical performance numbers but the only difference was the name then I would be all over the Kia in a heartbeat. But why bother getting a Viper or Z06 to run low 12's? I'll go out and get a low $30k Cobra and be running mid-high 12's stock for $20k-$50k less *and yes a stock Cobra does run those numbers since I've seen them numerous times run those times at Atco Raceway* But if anything it sounds like your a wanna be troll and trying to start some stuff up here.

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    Re: STS vs M5

    Quote Originally Posted by GERMEEZY1
    You are right the 4T80E has a 24-28% loss through the transmission it is the most inefficient tranny GM makes. In comparison the 4T65E used in the Gran Prix for instance only has a 16-20% loss through the tranny. The reason why is because the Northstar is really too much engine. If it was not for the torque management software they would not be able to handle the power without really hard and rough shifts. To be competitive the next STS will have to run 0-60 in 6.2 seconds or less regardless of hp.
    Taking a page out of your book here....."Do you have idea as to what you are talking about?" The Northstar is by no means a performance engine. Its the last thing it is. The only real performance engine caddy has had in the past few years was the LT1 out of the Fleetwood's.

  10. #25
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    Re: STS vs M5

    I don't see what's so funny. Okay, I admit 'fastest on the planet' is a bit of a stretch, but the V already outperforms the current M5 and M3. A Lingenfeller[sp?] mod. like what Germeezy is talking about would make it quite the formidable street car.

    You don't have to outrun Enzos, just the other day to day guys on the street. The V will put you there.

  11. #26
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    Re: STS vs M5

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackout
    Well what about a linginfelter Corvette runing 9 sec. 1/4's? yeah this is a Cadillac website but we respect all cars no matter what company they are from. If I had to choose between a $14k Kia and a $36k BMW and both have identical performance numbers but the only difference was the name then I would be all over the Kia in a heartbeat.
    The rest of the money goes towards class. Remember some people have taste when choosing a car. If all that mattered was speed, the cars you listed are excellent choices. Personally, I want to be showing up whoever is next to me, be it launching off a stoplight or parked in a lot.

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    beemer2k is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: STS vs M5

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackout
    Taking a page out of your book here....."Do you have idea as to what you are talking about?" The Northstar is by no means a performance engine. Its the last thing it is. The only real performance engine caddy has had in the past few years was the LT1 out of the Fleetwood's.
    Argumentative... and it depends on your definition of "performance engine". Are you talking weight to hp ratio, overall hp and tq, ease of modification, or what? 300hp/295tq vs 260hp/330tq. 6 of one, half dozen of the other. The chassis is what makes the difference. I would argue that the STS/ETCs are more performance oriented cars because they average 3-400lbs lighter than the Fleetwoods. That makes the STS/ETC faster. To say the 4.6 N* isn't a performance engine is, at best, an ill conceived statement. If you take a Honda S2000 engine out of it's chassis and put it in a dump truck is it still a performance engine? What if I dropped a 4.6 in a Fiero (God forbid), would it be a performance engine then? On it's slowest days my 96 STS consistently outperforms Impala SSs.

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    GERMEEZY1 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: STS vs M5

    You must have manure for brains but of course driving an old ass caddy like the one you have would be the reason for your comments. Could you please call GM and tell them their northstar wich they used for IRL and Lemans and also the German Opel Astra DTM team is not a performance engine. If you could also give cadillac hotrod fabricators a call and ask them how in the hell are they able to get 800 + hp from a non performance engine. Let us not confuse the 260 hp boat anchor detuned LT-1 for a real performance engine either because I would crush any stock Fleetwood or Impala SS. The real truth is the LS-1 put in the CTS-V is a real performance engine. But the north star could easily make 400 hp but the fwd transaxle would not be able to handle it. Let us not forget that the STS/DTS are the highest horsepower Fwd cars in the world. And many engineers say 250 hp is the max for Fwd.
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    Re: STS vs M5

    If that thumbnail is of your car, i think you have a DTS not an STS. Either way. lets relax a bit here.......

  15. #30
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    Re: STS vs M5

    Quote Originally Posted by GERMEEZY1
    I mean if you want a car that will be one of the fastest cars on the planet get a cts-v and start modifying the easiest choice would be turbo's in which case you would be looking at 550-700 hp and at 3800 lbs (less than the current M5) it would not even be close!
    ...or you could get a 90 deville, chip tune it, and race it downhill.

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