Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.

View Poll Results: Can a Honda be considered 'High End'?

Voters
56. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. We call them Acuras.

    14 25.00%
  • Yes. Look at the Prelude and Accord.

    3 5.36%
  • No. Simply no.

    19 33.93%
  • No. Even the Acuras aren't truly high end.

    20 35.71%
Closed Thread
Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 123
Cadillac or competing brand model ? Why ? Discussion, Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison. in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; Okay, so the discussion went like this: Originally Posted by FastBall Some prefer all show with no go, I prefer ...
  1. #1
    gothicaleigh's Avatar
    gothicaleigh is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): Current: None Past: '94 STS, '93 Eldorado, '98 ETC, '03 CTS
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    MyWorldIsEvil, ButAmericanMade
    Posts
    6,654

    Exclamation Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.

    Okay, so the discussion went like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by FastBall
    Some prefer all show with no go, I prefer all go with no show.
    Quote Originally Posted by ElvisLives666
    That's funny...that you prefer all go with no show considering you drive a Honda
    Quote Originally Posted by FastBall
    Yes, I do drive a Honda...... if you looked closely, it's a Prelude. Not a Civic or Accord. If you had any idea what exactly a Prelude is, you'd recant that statement.
    Quote Originally Posted by ElvisLives666
    I do of course know what a Prelude is, I had one in 1985 (when you were 8). But are you saying that the Prelude is some kind of high end Honda???
    I thought an Acura was the high end Honda
    Quote Originally Posted by FastBAll
    This is getting way off topic, but I'll explain...... in 1993, The Prelude went high end. It should have been an Acura, but they kept it in the Honda lineup for panache I guess. Anyway, you know the variable valve timing on the 3.6 CTS? Honda was the first to mass produce an engine with 2 sets of cam lobes on for each valve (one at low speed short duration/lift, one at high engine speed for long duration/high lift). They called it VTEC, which stands for Variable Timing and Electronic lift Control. It debuted in the supercar Acura NSX in 1990, and the Prelude was the first mass produced car to get it in 1993. Obviously, mine is a 2000, so here's the deal..... At 4500 RPM, my engine becomes a monster. From 4500 to red line at 7500, it does not loose an ounce of power (technically it does, but you don't know it).

    Honda tends to be at the forefront of cutting edge technology for mass production. Far ahead of GM, as this case makes it obvious. Preludes from 93-96 had 190 hp, and 97-99s had between 195 and 200 (mine is 200). For a 4 cylinder. Keep this in mind, it merits repeating...... 200 hp in a stock from the factory 4 cylinder engine.

    That's more hp than the Allante had

    In a $20,000 car.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicaleigh
    I have always believed that Honda produces some of the world's best small engines. It's the rest of the package that they need to work on (their insistance on FWD being a major sticking point with me).

    I agree that a 4-cylinder pushing 200hp is impressive, but at the end of the day it is still 'only' 200hp. Even a 'high end' Honda is just a Honda (even if it wears an Acura badge). They could pull that horse out of a two cylinder engine for all I care and it isn't going to change that fact.


    As for the Allante, by 1989 it had 200hp. That's four years before the Prelude received as much and over ten years before your car. By 1993 the Allante had the 275hp Northstar. The Prelude is still awaiting it's upgrade.
    Quote Originally Posted by FastBall
    You want to talk high end, we'll talk high end...... the car I have had in mind other than the CTS is the Acura TL...... With 270 hp out of a 3.2 liter engine. The only reason I am entertaining a CTS over a TL is my GM mastercard has over 1500 on it.

    I love the TL. It's about as top notch as it gets for 33k. In fact, the car feels like a 50k car. I love the CTS as well.

    My point is Acura isn't "just" a Honda. And for the record, Honda isn't as plain Jane as you may assume either. You say I'm still waiting for an update on my Prelude? That's the Accord V6 six speed coupe, my friend. 240 hp, double wishbone suspension, 17" wheels, and a 6 speed trans. I've seen these blow Mustang GT's away. Stock.

    Cadillac, while very impressive, is still lagging a little when it comes to their high end designs. I give them alot of credit for catching up, but that's all they've really done is catch up. Case in point - the new Acura RL will have a 300 hp V6 and a full time awd system that can not only vary the traction output to each wheel independently in bad weather, but adjust the torque output at each wheel for beyond supurb performance in dry weather. The preliminary reports say it gives Audi's Quattro system a real run for it's money. Sure the new STS has an AWD option, but does it have active torque transfer? I think not.
    So, my question to you, my fellow forum-dwellers: Do we consider Honda 'high end'?

    No, seriously. I know it's hard not to laugh, but please give your honest opinion...
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  2. Remove Advertisements
    CadillacForums.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    gothicaleigh's Avatar
    gothicaleigh is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): Current: None Past: '94 STS, '93 Eldorado, '98 ETC, '03 CTS
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    MyWorldIsEvil, ButAmericanMade
    Posts
    6,654

    Re: Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by FastBall
    You want to talk high end, we'll talk high end...... the car I have had in mind other than the CTS is the Acura TL...... With 270 hp out of a 3.2 liter engine. The only reason I am entertaining a CTS over a TL is my GM mastercard has over 1500 on it.

    I love the TL. It's about as top notch as it gets for 33k. In fact, the car feels like a 50k car. I love the CTS as well.
    We already did this comparison, remember? It was pretty unanimous that the CTS was the better car:
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=17215
    The TL feels like a $50k car? Please. For that price you can get a CTS-V, an M3, a Corvette, or half a dozen other cars that ‘feel’ nothing like the TL… $33k is a good price, don’t push it.

    My point is Acura isn't "just" a Honda. And for the record, Honda isn't as plain Jane as you may assume either. You say I'm still waiting for an update on my Prelude? That's the Accord V6 six speed coupe, my friend. 240 hp, double wishbone suspension, 17" wheels, and a 6 speed trans. I've seen these blow Mustang GT's away. Stock.
    The comparison put forth by you was your Prelude versus the Allante. I pointed out the flaw in your reasoning. But if you want to go into current versions of the cars, remember that the XLR is the Allante’s spiritual descendent. Do you really want to go there?

    As for Mustang GT’s…
    See the recent posts in the ‘Kills’ section. Those don’t impress me .

    Quote Originally Posted by FastBall
    Cadillac, while very impressive, is still lagging a little when it comes to their high end designs. I give them alot of credit for catching up, but that's all they've really done is catch up.
    Go read any comparison done in the last year that includes a Cadillac. Go read our ‘Versus’ forum. Cadillac is near or at the top of every category it competes in.

    Quote Originally Posted by FastBall
    Case in point - the new Acura RL will have a 300 hp V6 and a full time awd system that can not only vary the traction output to each wheel independently in bad weather, but adjust the torque output at each wheel for beyond supurb performance in dry weather. The preliminary reports say it gives Audi's Quattro system a real run for it's money. Sure the new STS has an AWD option, but does it have active torque transfer? I think not.
    ‘Active torque transfer’ as Honda is calling it, is nothing new and has been around for years. Honda mainly has used it thus far to try and eliminate the vicious torque steer in their FWD cars. Most manufacturers use a version of torque transfer. Does Cadillac have a torque transfer system? Of course. They have that and more:

    STS is available in both rear-wheel drive and all-wheel drive. The all-wheel-drive system runs with a 40/60 front/rear torque split, until it is necessary to divert power to a specific wheel in the event of wheel spin. The system transfers torque through three open differentials, front, center and rear. In addition to modulating torque to the wheels, the system manages engine torque. The system's transfer case incorporates the center open differential distributing the 40/60 split.

    STS also comes with StabiliTrak, an active handling system with independent controls to all four corners of the vehicle to help it remain under the driver's control on wet, snowy and icy surfaces, in tight turns and in evasive maneuvers. The system can correct a potential slide or loss of control before the driver is even aware of it. StabiliTrak is enhanced with GM's Magnetic Ride Control, which the automaker calls the world's fastest reacting suspension control system.


    Let’s see Honda match that.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  4. #3
    Adam's Avatar
    Adam is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): JimmyH
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Kingsport
    Age
    29
    Posts
    12,029

    Re: Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.

    damn. gothicaleigh done her homework. i think she shut him up. honda has never and will never be a high end car
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  5. #4
    airbalancer's Avatar
    airbalancer is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Cobourg Ontario
    Age
    57
    Posts
    1,303

    Re: Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.

    gothicaleigh, I think you need to get out more.

    Take your car out for a run when you start to read post about people comparing Hondas to Caddys lol
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  6. #5
    fastball is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Age
    37
    Posts
    112

    Re: Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by gothicaleigh
    We already did this comparison, remember? It was pretty unanimous that the CTS was the better car:
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ad.php?t=17215
    The TL feels like a $50k car? Please. For that price you can get a CTS-V, an M3, a Corvette, or half a dozen other cars that ‘feel’ nothing like the TL… $33k is a good price, don’t push it.



    The comparison put forth by you was your Prelude versus the Allante. I pointed out the flaw in your reasoning. But if you want to go into current versions of the cars, remember that the XLR is the Allante’s spiritual descendent. Do you really want to go there?

    As for Mustang GT’s…
    See the recent posts in the ‘Kills’ section. Those don’t impress me .



    Go read any comparison done in the last year that includes a Cadillac. Go read our ‘Versus’ forum. Cadillac is near or at the top of every category it competes in.



    ‘Active torque transfer’ as Honda is calling it, is nothing new and has been around for years. Honda mainly has used it thus far to try and eliminate the vicious torque steer in their FWD cars. Most manufacturers use a version of torque transfer. Does Cadillac have a torque transfer system? Of course. They have that and more:

    STS is available in both rear-wheel drive and all-wheel drive. The all-wheel-drive system runs with a 40/60 front/rear torque split, until it is necessary to divert power to a specific wheel in the event of wheel spin. The system transfers torque through three open differentials, front, center and rear. In addition to modulating torque to the wheels, the system manages engine torque. The system's transfer case incorporates the center open differential distributing the 40/60 split.

    STS also comes with StabiliTrak, an active handling system with independent controls to all four corners of the vehicle to help it remain under the driver's control on wet, snowy and icy surfaces, in tight turns and in evasive maneuvers. The system can correct a potential slide or loss of control before the driver is even aware of it. StabiliTrak is enhanced with GM's Magnetic Ride Control, which the automaker calls the world's fastest reacting suspension control system.


    Let’s see Honda match that.
    It's obvious you need to do some homework on SH-ATTS (Super Handling - Active Torque Transfer)...... it can send up to 95% tq to any one wheel at any given time. Or any two wheels. Or any 3 wheels. And ATTS was up untill now only used on the 97-01 Prelude SH, not on any other Honda model. It's not electronic, it's hydraulic. But the system in the RL is a combination hydroelectronic system. In normal driving operations, the system is 25/75 front to rear.

    When I say the TL feels like a 50k car, I mean quality, fit and finish, solidity of the interior, and refinement of the switchgear and controls inside. Unless you are either blind or too biased to even compare fairly, you have to admit while the CTS is much better than any GM vehicle in those repsects, it still has a ways to get to Acura, Audi, and BMW levels.

    When I compared the Prelude to the Allante, it was only to show that 200 hp out of a 4 cylinder is an incredible achievement, considering the Allante had only 140 out of a V8 untill the Northstar came about. I could have mentioned any car, but that was the first one in my head. It was not meant to compare specifically. Honestly, GM's 3800, STILL has only 200 hp. In 2004. While Honda is getting 240 and 270 (and soon 300) out of theirs. The 3.6 is 255 hp, yes, but is it available on all bread and butter GM vehicles? No, just Cadillac. When the 3.6 is available on a 23,000 Grand Prix, only then can you say GM can compete head to head in their technology.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  7. #6
    ljklaiber's Avatar
    ljklaiber is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 1995 SLS 200K miles
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Georgia
    Age
    73
    Posts
    372

    Re: Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.

    This is kind of silly here.

    I love my Caddy sls and my wife loves her Honda 2 Door EX , V6 240HP, which has every option the Caddy has including heated seats. Her 2004 will stay right on my 95 and we love both of the cars. If ya drive it like ya stole it, Both are fine. I love my SLS and she loves her Honda. Her advantage is 26k, NEW , out the door. My advantage is 6K used... :coolgleam
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  8. #7
    Ralph's Avatar
    Ralph is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): Cadillac
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    16,028

    Re: Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.

    I do consider Acuras to be a "top of the line" Honda. But thats all it really is. It is not as luxurious as a Caddy, even when you consider all of the technology the TL has. In the same respect, I hold a Lexus in the same regard, but they are only top of the line among Toyota because it's not logical to compare an IS 30 to a Deville.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  9. #8
    RBraczyk's Avatar
    RBraczyk is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Amherst, NH
    Age
    27
    Posts
    4,178

    Re: Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.

    I voted for preludes and accord for the hell of it.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  10. #9
    fastball is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Age
    37
    Posts
    112

    Re: Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.

    I love how people take what I say and turn it in to what they want to hear.

    Like you guys just have to win :madtalkin

    And this all started with someone turning a CTS into a cartoon.

    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  11. #10
    RBraczyk's Avatar
    RBraczyk is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Amherst, NH
    Age
    27
    Posts
    4,178

    Re: Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.

    Hey man, chill out. I bet your car is fast, because its half as light as their cars even though it has half the cylinders. Hell i drive a beast, i ain't racing anybody anytime soon.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  12. #11
    lev
    lev is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Planet Earth
    Age
    37
    Posts
    407

    Re: Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.

    I consider Honda having an upper hand on craftsmanship and reliability. Luxury toys wise it has nothing Cadillac doesn't have.

    The only negative side is that Hondas are "hip" and not very classy like Cadillacs are. I like very much how most Hondas look, but Cadillac's elegance cannot be rivaled by that brand.

    If all cars were built like Hondas, most mechanics would be on welfare, that's a fact.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  13. #12
    gothicaleigh's Avatar
    gothicaleigh is offline Cadillac Owners Master
    Automobile(s): Current: None Past: '94 STS, '93 Eldorado, '98 ETC, '03 CTS
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    MyWorldIsEvil, ButAmericanMade
    Posts
    6,654

    Re: Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by lev
    I consider Honda having an upper hand on craftsmanship and reliability. Luxury toys wise it has nothing Cadillac doesn't have.

    The only negative side is that Hondas are "hip" and not very classy like Cadillacs are. I like very much how most Hondas look, but Cadillac's elegance cannot be rivaled by that brand.

    If all cars were built like Hondas, most mechanics would be on welfare, that's a fact.


    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  14. #13
    illumina's Avatar
    illumina is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): '98 Buick Regal LS - '91 Caddy Seville - '87 Caddy Seville!
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    The Empire...
    Posts
    4,425

    Re: Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.

    ^

    well put.

    when honda comes out with a V-8 with a 4000 lb. body, and rolls low 14's while not feeling a damn thing, then ill consider them "high end". until then, ill agree that they are quality affordable cars, but not super-luxury performance machines. (exclude s2000, one sweet f****** honda!)
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  15. #14
    ben72227 is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,483

    Re: Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.

    I agree that Acuras are top of the line Hondas, but they aren't luxary cars. They just feel like you're riding in an Accord with heated leather seats. Same Honda suspension and same handling. Even the design is almost the same (visualy). Basically, if im going to buy a Japanese "luxary" car, then its going to be a Lexus LS430. Not an acura. Even though the RSX looks cool, its still a Honda. A $90,000 honda....

    I will say though, that Hondas as a whole over the past decades are some of the most reliable cars. The JP Power Reports are 2004 and im sure that Cadillac has caught up in reliability ratings because of the whole Sigma revamp of thier lineup. But Hondas are definately built sturdy and designed to be low-maintanence cars. And thats a good thing, its one of the main reasons people are drawn to Hondas.

    But me, I just don't see me in a Honda or Acura or any Jap car any time soon. CADILLAC!
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  16. #15
    Slick V's Avatar
    Slick V is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale
    Age
    30
    Posts
    247

    Re: Cadillac Vs. Honda : Yes, another absurd comparison.

    There is a limit on how much hp you can get out of a N/A 4 banger, and I think 240-260 will be that limit, that will be later on down the road with better tech development. On the other hand ive seen a N/A V8 with 900+ hp. 4 cylinder engines will never match the torque or hp of a V8, and if you want to talk about them having 1100hp with turbos, then youll have to think about V8's having 3000hp with a supercharger(topfuel drag cars).
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting