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Cadillac or competing brand model ? Why ? Discussion, Is Lincoln throwing in the towel? in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano I think you're right about Lincoln taking Cadillacs old customers... That makes plenty of sense. ...
  1. #31
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    Re: Is Lincoln throwing in the towel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano
    I think you're right about Lincoln taking Cadillacs old customers... That makes plenty of sense. I think Buick would like to be in that situation, but they don't have the name and history that Lincoln does...

    Otherwise. The Infiniti J30 was a Nissan Altima.. The G20 was a Nissan Sentra... The interiors were much nicer inside...
    The Infiniti J30 is a four-door Nissan ZX with tanklike construction (quite heavy for its size, at over 3800 lbs). The J30 is also RWD, and uses the entire drivetrain from the Nissan 300ZX sports car. The Altima, however, is a FWD commuter car that sort of sits halfway between compact and midsize -- and it got ugly in the mid 90s with its tall boxy body. The only thing the J30 and Altima ever had in common basically, was that the J looked like the first Altima. Everything else was entirely different.

    The G20, while a spirited, attractive car, is simply a rebadged version of europe's Nissan Primera (not the same as Sentra, which is more downmarket and cheaper in overall build quality and performance). A slow but good-handling FWD car. Not exactly luxurious, but at least it was cheap in the mid 20s back in the day.

    The current Q45 is Japan's Nissan Cima. The original Q45 was based on the Nissan President, which at the time was Nissan's flagship. It came in two wheelbases, and in the US we got the short wheelbase version with better handling. In 1997, the Q45 went from being based on the Nissan President to a rebadged Nissan Cima. Think of it as going one small step down in luxury and performance.

    But one thing to bear in mind, is that rebadging cars that are otherwise only available overseas makes little difference to the brand perception of most Americans. Taking your little sister's Honda Civic and selling it as an Acura EL, or taking Officer Bob's Crown Vic and calling it a Grand Marquis isnt so subtle. Sharing and rebadging are fine to a degree... Oldsmobile (in the 80s) and Mercury took it to an extreme, and people just werent buying it. Selling the Crown Vic as a high end luxury car in Hong Kong, however, might work.

    -Jesda

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    Re: Is Lincoln throwing in the towel?

    Correction regarding Oldsmobile: People bought it at the time (making it one of the top selling brands in the 80s), but badge engineering muddied the brand and killed it in the 90s.

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    Re: Is Lincoln throwing in the towel?

    mercury does for ford what buick does for gm. its middle line you do not want to drive a chevy cant afford a cadillac so you settle with a new buick. same with ford. ther are many cadillac buick gmc dealers in town but i agree mercury shold seperate so that lincoln in exclusivley lincoln. like many big caddi dealerships are only exclusivly caddillac dealerships even their used car lots are only cadillacs.

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    Re: Is Lincoln throwing in the towel?

    Quote Originally Posted by cadibroughm
    mercury does for ford what buick does for gm. its middle line you do not want to drive a chevy cant afford a cadillac so you settle with a new buick. same with ford. ther are many cadillac buick gmc dealers in town but i agree mercury shold seperate so that lincoln in exclusivley lincoln. like many big caddi dealerships are only exclusivly caddillac dealerships even their used car lots are only cadillacs.
    Mercury doesnt bring in near enough revenue to even be alowed to consider a seperate franchise.........they need INDIVIDUAL products.

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    Re: Is Lincoln throwing in the towel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Msilva954
    Lincoln can and WILL take over the traditional Cadillac buyers....
    We'll have to see what happens to the DeVilles before we can make an assumption like that.

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    Re: Is Lincoln throwing in the towel?

    That was assuming that they will do the deville the way of Art & Science......but then again all the traditionalists were buying fleetwoods and sevilles too.....with this new styling they may think it is too flashy.

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    Re: Is Lincoln throwing in the towel?

    My friend has a 99 Crown Vic LX and that thing can not possibly ride any softer, if it did it would be dangerous, so I guess their is some truth to thinking all three ride the same.

    If Mercury is to survive and thrive, it needs a more clearly defined identity. All Mercurys are are fancied up Fords. Ford should position it as a performance luxury brand and Lincoln as the traditional luxury brand. This way they can work both sides of the luxury car market by attracting young and old buyers without competing with each other.

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    Re: Is Lincoln throwing in the towel?

    99 was before the major chassis reinforcements.

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    Re: Is Lincoln throwing in the towel?

    Quote Originally Posted by CoupeDevilleRob
    If Mercury is to survive and thrive, it needs a more clearly defined identity. All Mercurys are are fancied up Fords. Ford should position it as a performance luxury brand and Lincoln as the traditional luxury brand. This way they can work both sides of the luxury car market by attracting young and old buyers without competing with each other.
    Ford already has it's divisions set to work both ends of the luxury car market. Lincoln for it's 'pure' luxury and Jaguar for Luxury-Sport. Mercury is, and has always been an economy luxury brand. Think of it as Ford's Oldsmobile (and hopefully it shares the same fate).

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    Re: Is Lincoln throwing in the towel?

    Lincoln/Mercury does not control its destiny, as Ford goes, so goes LM. As a long time Ford-LM supporter (customer), this is how I see it.

    The other side:
    ·Other American manufacturers have the Viper, the “can you say HEMI”, and the Corvette. Ford has a pony car just reaching it’s potential with a 25 year plus chassis.
    ·Pontiac comes out with a GTO with power, road hugging ability, and good looks. Ford kills it’s SHO just as it was achieving its next level. Ford currently sells, would you believe, a Taurus with 50/60’s technology rear drum brakes. We notice!
    ·Cadillac comes up with one visceral car after another (XLR, CTS(V), etc)… Ford has an LS Lincoln with an anemic and detuned Jaguar motor.

    FORD, some thoughts:
    ·If Ford imagines itself as primarily a truck company, then you are writing your epitaph.
    ·You promised to compete with BMW and the worlds best with the LS in 2000 and by 2006 your leaving your LS customers high and dry.
    ·You have raised your current subsidiaries from the grave at the expenses of the parent company. If Ford's vision is to be the “Yugo” of the world, then expect one of your subsidiaries to own you one day.
    ·Stop making very limited production cars, only the Jay Leno’s of the world will be buying the Ford GT. I’m convinced your are not making a profit from these cars, so selling a few to people who will keep them in a garage doesn’t make a lot of corporate sense.
    ·Your current financial woes are what you are reaping for the blasé products you produce, just as GM suffered in the early 90’s.
    ·“Bold”, “Daring”, and “Inspired” you are not.

    PS: After 30 + years of buying Ford products, my last three cars have been a Z06, CTS-V, and a Lemans Commemorative Corvette. I hope they get the message.

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    Re: Is Lincoln throwing in the towel?

    If any of you live in Central or South Florida you know that most of the snowbirds or retirees tend to purchase the Mercury Marquis simply because the offer the size and ride of a Lincoln without the cost.

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    Re: Is Lincoln throwing in the towel?

    Yeah, I see that.. I live in West Palm Beach and a lot of the retirees drive Mercury Grand Marquis.. In many of the reviews I read, they've got a similar feel as well.. To the serious enthusiast, I'm sure that's not true. But to the average driver - I'm sure it is...
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    Re: Is Lincoln throwing in the towel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano
    Yeah, I see that.. I live in West Palm Beach and a lot of the retirees drive Mercury Grand Marquis.. In many of the reviews I read, they've got a similar feel as well.. To the serious enthusiast, I'm sure that's not true. But to the average driver - I'm sure it is...
    True True.......Very same cars but at the same time they are very different....I can notice it..

    1000 POST BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......and Im here to stay.

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    Re: Is Lincoln throwing in the towel?

    If what Gothicaleigh posted about Ford pulling Lincoln out of PAG is true, that is just absurd. Lincoln was really turning itself around with the recent updates to the LS, the awesome technology and refinement of the new Navigator, and the plushness of the 2003 and up Lincoln Town Car, I was really expecting great things from Lincoln, and Im still hoping to see some coming down the line. When the Ford family took the company back from that Nasser idiot, they began to turn the rusted out wheels of change back in the right direction, but they will need to keep the change alive and kicking if they are to stay competitive. Unfortunately, I have to agree with some here who say its time for Mercury to go, for petes sake there is no American brand left that so CLEARLY defines badge engineering as Mercury. The half-assed attempt at the Marauder was absolutely laughable, and if you dig deeper, you find that it was really only once again a rehashed version of the Crown Vic Sport model which was also introduced as a fat sedan with some speed.

    The 2003 Lincoln Town Car however does deserve some praise. For those who like classic BIG RWD American luxury, no other car so well defines it as the Town Car. It blends a wonderfully smooth ride, with such amenities as a big fat genuine wood trimmed steering wheel, Xenon lights, extended length models (like BMW and Mercedes), high quality stereo systems, park distance sensors and other gadgets. In comparison, the Mercury Grand Marquis and Crown Vic are really an afterthought, EXCEPT for when it comes to Police use, something the Crown Vic seemed destined for from the beginning. It really makes those Impala cruisers seem like toys.

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    Re: Is Lincoln throwing in the towel?

    Lincoln is on its way up......granted way SLOWER then Cadillac.......yet they dont have the billions given to them either......It will be many more years for Lincoln to play catch up with any company.....but they are on a tariffic start...........and Ill still take a new towncar anyday.

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