What's this Cat worth?
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Cadillac Catera and Cimarron Forum Discussion, What's this Cat worth? in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Here is the setup: Found a 1999 Cat with south of 50K miles on the clock. Car is virtually as ...
  1. #1
    guardian is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    What's this Cat worth?

    Here is the setup:

    Found a 1999 Cat with south of 50K miles on the clock. Car is virtually as new in terms of appearance; very nice. No Bose. No moonroof. No sport package. No leaks. Pristine CarFax (zero red flags). Belt was changed quite late along with the water pump. As a result, new belt has less than 25,000 miles on it so a belt change should not be in the immediate offing. Car has good tires.

    Seller wants $5500 but says that number is negotiable.

    Please tell me: How much would you offer for the car?

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  3. #2
    LoveMyLac is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: What's this Cat worth?

    Bluebook private party in Excellent condition is $2,025. Bluebook is overpriced IMO. And no 15 year old car is in excellent condition. Of course this is value based on southern california also. Your area may be different. I've never purchased a Catera but I've casually priced them in the past. I would stick around $2k. But any car is worth what your willing to pay.

  4. #3
    kaustein is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: What's this Cat worth?

    RUN LIKE HELL AWAY FROM IT!

    Read the posts on here. It's not called a Crapetera for no reason! 14 years old, Honda, Toyota, yes! This car no.

    Unless you want the car being admired sitting in the driveway as to how nice it looks, but needing repairs that you can't afford/perform your self/pay someone to do, stay away.

    BTW, Caddy dealers don't like working on them. From experience they will quote you outrageous repair numbers just so that you will go elsewhere.

  5. #4
    investor74 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: What's this Cat worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaustein View Post
    RUN LIKE HELL AWAY FROM IT!

    Read the posts on here. It's not called a Crapetera for no reason! 14 years old, Honda, Toyota, yes! This car no.

    Unless you want the car being admired sitting in the driveway as to how nice it looks, but needing repairs that you can't afford/perform your self/pay someone to do, stay away.

    BTW, Caddy dealers don't like working on them. From experience they will quote you outrageous repair numbers just so that you will go elsewhere.
    Want to see something interesting? Read through the ATS forums. If you did a word substitution of "Catera" for ATS, you'd think you were in the Catera forums. Same "worst car I ever owned", "I'm seeing the lemon law attorney next week", stuff you see here. And, of course, the defenses by those who have no problems at all. Makes me wonder if the Catera was really such an outlier.

  6. #5
    guardian is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: What's this Cat worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by investor74 View Post
    Want to see something interesting? Read through the ATS forums. If you did a word substitution of "Catera" for ATS, you'd think you were in the Catera forums. Same "worst car I ever owned", "I'm seeing the lemon law attorney next week", stuff you see here. And, of course, the defenses by those who have no problems at all. Makes me wonder if the Catera was really such an outlier.
    Exactly.

    I recently came into possession of a "Road and Track" archive, on microfiche. In 1994, when first thoughts of the Catera began entering into the heads of Caddy execs, "Road and Track" wrote about the MV6 (that's the Opel Omega MV6, the car which is the basis for the Cat) and how it was, at that time, Opel's top-of-the-line and one of the finest automobiles in Europe. The MV6 was described as a 150mph Autobahn cruiser!

    Of course the Catera, with the right tires and with the governor defeated, is as well. It is a really fine automobile. However:

    It is a completely European automobile. In that sense it is akin to the old Jags. The Cat is very high performance, VERY high maintenance, European iron. The Cat's abilities, and "flaws", are routine in European automobiles.

    All of that said, there is no way in hell the MV6 ever should have been imported into the USA and labelled "Cadillac". Americans have completely different expectations of their cars where reliability is concerned. Americans have no use whatsoever for a 150mph automobile. Shoot, most stateside Cats have never been driven over 100!! The Cat is just getting warmed up at 100!!!!

    I've ridden on the Autobahn at very high speed. It's a different world. Once, on business, we needed to get from the Frankfurt area up to Hannover in Lower Saxony. Our host, a German, offered to fly us up or drive us up, our choice. He said it would take about the same time either way. We made the trip in his personal car, an Audi, at circa 150mph. A properly outfitted MV6 (aka Catera) would have been equally capable of making that trip at that speed, if the car had existed at that time. It did not AFAIK, as my trip was made circa 1980.

    Point is, the Cat is a fantastic car, but horribly out of place in the USA. It does not belong here. Our mechanics (except for the odd German car mechanic) are not equipped to deal with cars like the Catera. No American who fails to understand these things has any business whatsoever buying a Catera. It's not an American car and it's not even close to being a traditional Cadillac.

    But it is a fantastic German car, for those who appreciate and understand such things. And where else are you gonna find a 150mph car for a couple thousand bucks!!

  7. #6
    98Catera_2010's Avatar
    98Catera_2010 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Quote Originally Posted by guardian View Post

    Exactly.

    I recently came into possession of a "Road and Track" archive, on microfiche. In 1994, when first thoughts of the Catera began entering into the heads of Caddy execs, "Road and Track" wrote about the MV6 (that's the Opel Omega MV6, the car which is the basis for the Cat) and how it was, at that time, Opel's top-of-the-line and one of the finest automobiles in Europe. The MV6 was described as a 150mph Autobahn cruiser!

    Of course the Catera, with the right tires and with the governor defeated, is as well. It is a really fine automobile. However:

    It is a completely European automobile. In that sense it is akin to the old Jags. The Cat is very high performance, VERY high maintenance, European iron. The Cat's abilities, and "flaws", are routine in European automobiles.

    All of that said, there is no way in hell the MV6 ever should have been imported into the USA and labelled "Cadillac". Americans have completely different expectations of their cars where reliability is concerned. Americans have no use whatsoever for a 150mph automobile. Shoot, most stateside Cats have never been driven over 100!! The Cat is just getting warmed up at 100!!!!

    I've ridden on the Autobahn at very high speed. It's a different world. Once, on business, we needed to get from the Frankfurt area up to Hannover in Lower Saxony. Our host, a German, offered to fly us up or drive us up, our choice. He said it would take about the same time either way. We made the trip in his personal car, an Audi, at circa 150mph. A properly outfitted MV6 (aka Catera) would have been equally capable of making that trip at that speed, if the car had existed at that time. It did not AFAIK, as my trip was made circa 1980.

    Point is, the Cat is a fantastic car, but horribly out of place in the USA. It does not belong here. Our mechanics (except for the odd German car mechanic) are not equipped to deal with cars like the Catera. No American who fails to understand these things has any business whatsoever buying a Catera. It's not an American car and it's not even close to being a traditional Cadillac.

    But it is a fantastic German car, for those who appreciate and understand such things. And where else are you gonna find a 150mph car for a couple thousand bucks!!
    Well put man I agree.

  8. #7
    guardian is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: What's this Cat worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by 98Catera_2010 View Post
    Well put man I agree.
    Thanks. I live in the USA but I live hundreds of miles closer to you there in Ontario (I'm only a few hours south of Buffalo) than I do to Florida. Thus, my knowledge of south Florida geography is quite limited. And as I wrote elsewhere, I've returned to this forum recently after not having posted here for several years.

    But I recall "back in the day", right here on this forum and I'm sure it's still buried somewhere in the archives, a post from a south Florida Cat owner who used to prowl an interstate down there at night in his Cat at 125mph, or the max his Cat's governor and tires would allow. Like I said, I don't know south Florida. But I think it was the interstate across a desolate, inland, swamp?, region between the Atlantic coast and the Gulf coast. Nobody was on the roads late, but you did have to watch for 'gators. He wrote that the Cat really purred at those speeds and was completely within its cruising range.

    Heck, one of the reasons other North Americans might be experiencing so many problems with our Cats is that we all run 'em so darn SLOW!!!

  9. #8
    IvoryWhiteCatera's Avatar
    IvoryWhiteCatera is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: What's this Cat worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaustein View Post
    RUN LIKE HELL AWAY FROM IT!

    Read the posts on here. It's not called a Craptera for no reason! 14 years old, Honda, Toyota, yes! This car no.

    Unless you want the car being admired sitting in the driveway as to how nice it looks, but needing repairs that you can't afford/perform your self/pay someone to do, stay away.

    BTW, Caddy dealers don't like working on them. From experience they will quote you outrageous repair numbers just so that you will go elsewhere.
    I second that motion. It was a beautiful car, but I spent most of my time under it than driving it, and it left me stranded more times than I can count. Parts are expensive (from a college student's point of view), the engine bay is tight, and one can only curse at the British and Germans for engineering it the way it was (engine was built in U.K. which is automotively synonymous with oil leaks, stupidly placed parts, and overengineered crap).

    Bottom line, unless you have the time and money, do not buy.

  10. #9
    kaustein is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: What's this Cat worth?

    Cats is that we all run 'em so darn SLOW!!!
    Trust me, that isn't the problem!

  11. #10
    guardian is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: What's this Cat worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaustein View Post
    Trust me, that isn't the problem!
    Wow! So serious and negative. I was just having a little fun. You even took the trouble to edit out my smiley!!

    Here's the thing for those who might be unaware:

    The Catera is an extremely "needy" car by North American standards. At introduction, the brilliant minds at Cadillac imposed on dealerships a US$50,000 "buy in" fee. Dealerships not willing to pay that fee were denied access to the Catera product line. But probably more importantly, their mechanics were denied access to "Cat school" training.

    Between a third and one half of Cadillac dealers refused to pay the US$50,000 fee. This was circa 1996. Cadillac went ahead anyway with the MV6 . . er . . I mean Catera rollout. Suffice it to say a great many owners, over the years, have taken their Cats to dealers that never bought in. Thus, for those owners, their chance of receiving proper and satisfactory Cat service was vanishingly small. And, importantly:

    Early on the Cadillac dealers who never paid up to became Catera vendors were close-mouthed when asked to provide Catera service. They were content to "do the best they could", providing second-class service while gouging unknowing customers without mercy. For those dealers, only the bottom line mattered, not the distress of Catera owners.

    The Catera is pure German, with a gazillion points of difference between itself and "Detroit iron" where service matters are concerned. Even the techs who got through Cat school were scarcely prepared to deal with such an automobile. Cadillac techs who never had any training at all were completely and totally unprepared. It's no wonder so many Cadillac dealers today detest being asked to service Catera automobiles. It's not really a Cadillac!

    Add to that that the Catera has always been needy, it is "high maintenance", and what you had was a recipe for disaster.

    In real life I drive a North American car, proudly made in Ontario, Canada, an MGM (Mercury Grand Marquis). It is perhaps one of the most reliable cars on the road. The basic car (most often in Ford trim) is the basis for police fleets and taxi fleets all across the fruited plain. My MGM is a wonderful car . . . however it is not designed for 150mph.

    Do I have the good sense to realize a Catera is not designed to the same reliability standard as my MGM?

    You betcha.

    Is that a valid excuse to hate on the Catera?

    Not in my view.
    investor74 likes this.

  12. #11
    kaustein is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: What's this Cat worth?

    The repairs are secondary. The constant need for repairs/parts/service, that is the problem!

    An electrical nightmare. For me, some of the problems were, driving lights worked intermittently. Seats memory that never worked. sun roof that would open whenever it wanted too. Window switches that would break. And so on. The car is unquestionably a piece of crap! Getting people to fix it was secondary. Having a 35k car that your were afraid to drive more that 100 miles from home tells you a lot about the car.

    If I remember it weighed 3800 pounds with a 200 hp motor. Slow, and stodgy. Handles like tank.

    The only good thing about the car was interstate cursing, sorta of like driving your living room around.

    Again to answer the question, "do not buy the car for any amount of money!"

  13. #12
    guardian is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: What's this Cat worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaustein View Post
    The repairs are secondary. The constant need for repairs/parts/service, that is the problem!

    An electrical nightmare. For me, some of the problems were, driving lights worked intermittently. Seats memory that never worked. sun roof that would open whenever it wanted too. Window switches that would break. And so on. The car is unquestionably a piece of crap! Getting people to fix it was secondary. Having a 35k car that your were afraid to drive more that 100 miles from home tells you a lot about the car.

    If I remember it weighed 3800 pounds with a 200 hp motor. Slow, and stodgy. Handles like tank.

    The only good thing about the car was interstate cursing, sorta of like driving your living room around.

    Again to answer the question, "do not buy the car for any amount of money!"
    Acknowledged.

    I am respectful of your very negative experience with your Catera. You are among a LARGE group of owners who have suffered through such troubles with a Catera.

    However:

    It is about having skillful service personnel available to fix the car. In Germany, the MV6 is not regarded poorly. But in Germany the country is replete with German service people able adequately to deal with the kinds of troubles you experienced. In Germany, the problems get fixed.

    I've already explained above what Cadillac did in North America during the Catera rollout. Straight up, the introduction of Cateras here was FUBAR!! Look, this is the same Cadillac/GM "brain trust" that, only circa ten years later, was destined to go bankrupt! These people were incompetent jackasses. They deserved to go bankrupt. What they did with Catera was ridiculous!

    So what about today? How do the cars get fixed now, after so much failure?

    First and foremost, nobody should buy a Catera if they cannot fix the car themselves. And with any Catera there is the possibility stuff can go wrong often and need attention. It's not a Cadillac. OK. It's just not. The Catera is a thoroughbred race horse. It's not a draught horse.

    Only exception would be if you have access to a good, and willing, German car mechanic. We don't have many such technicians here in North America, and most of the ones we do have know little about the Opel Omega MV6, a car never imported onto these shores without a "Catera" nameplate.

    The Catera is a problematic automobile, but it is a luxurious, very high performance, Autobahn-capable, automobile. People need to decide what they want, and how much they are willing to sacrifice to own a Catera. But at the bottom line, all in, it is a very, very cool car!!

    Finally, the Catera is not a hot rod in the North American tradition. In North America, at least in the USA, overpowered hot rods have always been the go-to cars for thrill seekers. This is because it's tough to reach even a lowly 100mph here without being placed under arrest. Thrills in North America can only legally be achieved through rapid acceleration. In Germany, instead, speed is the focus. It's quite enjoyable to drive along for hours on end at speeds of circa 150mph and higher. It's no big deal. So while cool Detroit iron has traditionally been designed with acceleration in mind, a German car like the Catera is designed with safe operation at high speed as the goal.

    BTW, for those driving along on the Autobahn in their Catera (aka, MV6), in the far left lane, at 150mph:

    When a car pulls up behind you, slows down to your speed, and you check your mirror and see his left turn signal flashing . . well . . better pull over for that Mercedes and let him by! You're holding that dude up!!

  14. #13
    kaustein is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: What's this Cat worth?

    very high performance
    I would never refer to this car as high performance! Not even close! HP to weight, just to start.

    Also it isn't about finding someone who will/can work on the cars, but it's the never ending need to have work done on the car! That is the problem.

    Just calling a car a "sport model" doesn't make it so.

    Again don't buy the car!

  15. #14
    guardian is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: What's this Cat worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaustein View Post
    I would never refer to this car as high performance! Not even close! HP to weight, just to start.

    Also it isn't about finding someone who will/can work on the cars, but it's the never ending need to have work done on the car! That is the problem.

    Just calling a car a "sport model" doesn't make it so.

    Again don't buy the car!
    Gotta disagree with you, dude. Any car capable of safe operation at 150mph is high performance by definition. Your evaluation is pure American. There are other points of view, in other regions of this world, which do not look at and evaluate things as you do.

    You're entitled, of course, to your opinion. Be aware it's constrained by your American experience. The Catera is, as I wrote earlier explaining why, a very high performance automobile.

    ETA

    Also I should add, finding a technician to work on the car is one thing. Finding a technician who knows the car well and can fix it properly and permanently is another matter entirely. In Germany the MV6, for all practical purposes a Catera, has rather a good reputation for reliability.

  16. #15
    kaustein is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: What's this Cat worth?

    I personally know a GM engineer from Germany. Worked for GM fuel cell division near me, but when GM moved all of it to Detriot he opted to go back to GM European division. When he saw the car for the first time, he laughed! As a German he knew what a crap car is.

    If the catera could get up to 150 mph, that isn't a high performance car! Trust me! Thats a car that goes 150 mph. Lipstick on a pig is still a pig, not a super model.

    You must not be reading this totally. The problem isn't necessarily finding someone who can work on the car. The problem is that the car so incredibly unreliable! Commonly called a lemon!

    I have never seen a catera on a list of High Performance cars. If you can find it on a list, please post it here. However, I have seen it on several list of bad cars, worst 50 cars, cars not to buy, and so on!

    http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...-all-time.html

    Or this list

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...o-fail#slide-6


    And this is a start!

    As for cars I own, a Volvo and MR2

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