'01 Catera, starts up but dies
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Cadillac Catera and Cimarron Forum Discussion, '01 Catera, starts up but dies in Past Cadillac Vehicle Discussion; Hiya! Vekspec here! My 2001 Catera recently started having engine problems. First I had high RPMs, hard shifting and it ...
  1. #1
    vekspec's Avatar
    vekspec is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    '01 Catera, starts up but dies

    Hiya! Vekspec here!

    My 2001 Catera recently started having engine problems. First I had high RPMs, hard shifting and it would sputter (and the car would jerk forward and back) at a certain range of speed, then it seemed to have gotten better. I thought maybe it was because I put better gas in it. But just last week, the engine would not start at all. It would turn on, start, everything would seem ok but then the engine would stall and die after a few seconds. I replaced the battery and all spark plugs and that did not help. the mechanic said the cylinder was misfiring and the coolant temp sensor was dead. he said to change the plugs which I did. obviously it didn't help.

    So far the error codes i gotten was are P0650 (check engine light out i believe), P0116 (coolant temp sensor) and P0300s (misfires).

    Other guesses are maybe the fuel injection system or related is out. MAF (mass air flow) was a possible area but I removed the sensor and it did not help.

    Any suggestions would be great!

    thanks!
    Vekspec

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  3. #2
    kaustein is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: '01 Catera, starts up but dies

    Quote Originally Posted by vekspec View Post
    Hiya! Vekspec here!

    My 2001 Catera recently started having engine problems. First I had high RPMs, hard shifting and it would sputter (and the car would jerk forward and back) at a certain range of speed, then it seemed to have gotten better. I thought maybe it was because I put better gas in it. But just last week, the engine would not start at all. It would turn on, start, everything would seem ok but then the engine would stall and die after a few seconds. I replaced the battery and all spark plugs and that did not help. the mechanic said the cylinder was misfiring and the coolant temp sensor was dead. he said to change the plugs which I did. obviously it didn't help.

    So far the error codes i gotten was are P0650 (check engine light out i believe), P0116 (coolant temp sensor) and P0300s (misfires).

    Other guesses are maybe the fuel injection system or related is out. MAF (mass air flow) was a possible area but I removed the sensor and it did not help.

    Any suggestions would be great!

    thanks!
    Vekspec
    CPS Crankshaft positioning sensor. Very common problem with these car and one of the cheaper fixes. About $150

  4. #3
    JohnJJO's Avatar
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    Re: '01 Catera, starts up but dies

    P0650

    Description
    Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) Control Circuit Output drive moduels (ODM’s) are used by the powertrain control module (PCM) to turn on many of the current-driven devices that are needed to control various engine and transaxle functions. Each ODM is capable of controlling up to 7 separate outputs by applying ground to the device whish the PCM is commanding ON. Unlike quad diver modules (QDM’s) used in prior model years, ODM’s have the capability of diagnosing each output circuit individually. DTC P0650 set indicates an improper voltage level on the output circuit that control the MIL.

    Symptoms
    The PCM will illuminate the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) during the second consecutive trip in which the diagnostic test has been run and failed.
    The PCM will store the conditions, which were present when the DTC set as Freeze Frame and Failure Records Data only.
    If the misfire is determined to be catalyst damaging, the PCM will flash the MIL.
    Causes
    An improper voltage level has been detected on ODM D output 1 (the MIL control circuit)
    The above conditions are present for at least 30 seconds.

    Solutions
    Check for the following conditions:
    A faulty connection at the PCM – inspect the harness connectors for backed out terminals, improper mating, broken locks, improperly formed or damaged terminals, and faulty terminal to wire connections.
    Inspect the wiring harness for damage.
    If the harness appears to be okay, disconnect the PCM, turn the ignition ON and observe a DMM connected between the MIL control circuit and ground at the PCM harness connector while moving connectors and wiring harnesses related to the MIL. A change in voltage will indicate the location of the fault.
    Located the MIL fuse. If the fuse is open, locate and repair a short to ground in the MIL ignition supply circuit or a shorted cluster. Inspect the MIL fuse and replace as necessary. Did you find and replace the blown fuse and make repairs?
    Yes – Clear the DTC.
    NO – Turn the ignition OFF and disconnect the PCM. If the jumper fuse opens, locate and repair a short to voltage in the MIL control circuit or a shorted cluster. Install a 3amp fused jumper between the MIL control circuit at the PCM harness connector and a good ground. Turn the ignition ON with the engine off. Is the MIL illuminated?
    YES – Leave the ignition on and remove the jumper. Is the MIL still illuminated?
    YES – Remove the instrument cluster. Test the MIL control circuit for a short to ground and repair as necessary. Did you fin and repair the condition?
    YES – Clear the DTC
    NO – Inspect the PCM and PCM harness connector for faulty connections and repair as necessary. Did you find and correct the connection?
    YES – Clear DTC
    NO – Replace the PCM
    NO – Remove the instrument cluster. Test the MIL control circuit for a short to ground and repair as necessary. Did you fin and repair the condition?
    YES – Clear the DTC
    NO – Test the MIL ignition supply circuit for an open and repair as necessary. Did you find a problem and correct?
    YES – Clear the DTC
    NO – Inspect the cluster harness connector for faulty connections and repair as necessary. Did you find and repair the condition?
    YES – Clear the DTC
    NO – Repair or replace the cluster. Did you complete the repair or replacement?
    YES – Clear the DTC

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    CPS Crankshaft position sensor just $46.99
    http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...mString=search
    But this is not the problem . Crankshaft positioning sensor fail will not cost car to stop running !!!!!
    i had problems with Crankshaft positioning sensor and Camshaft positioning sensor in both cases wouldn't be able to start the car in first crank, some time had to crank it like 10 times and car had never stop running on me. Had check engine light (had 1 code, only related to sensor)in both cases.

    ----------

    CPS Crankshaft position sensor just $46.99
    http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...mString=search
    But this is not the problem . Crankshaft positioning sensor fail will not cost car to stop running !!!!!
    i had problems with Crankshaft positioning sensor and Camshaft positioning sensor in both cases wouldn't be able to start the car in first crank, some time had to crank it like 10 times and car had never stop running on me. Had check engine light (had 1 code, only related to sensor)in both cases.

  5. #4
    vekspec's Avatar
    vekspec is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: '01 Catera, starts up but dies

    cool! I will give that a try. I bought a new CPS from Auto Zone. Is the installation the same as the guide for the 98 catera here on the forums? if so, that means I have to attach the other end underneath my car correct?
    Any way to test if the one I have is bad or not?

    @JohnJJO, I appreciate the post on the P0650, but at the moment, the light malfunction isn't a huge priority. and for the looks of it, it seems that will be a tedious task, removing the panel and all and probably best done by the shop. Right now I need to get the car running.

    I just want to be sure that the CPS is most likely the culprit.

    Appreciate the replies! =)

  6. #5
    JohnJJO's Avatar
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    Re: '01 Catera, starts up but dies

    location of sensor next to the oil filter canister

  7. #6
    rruff98 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: '01 Catera, starts up but dies

    any DIY for the CPS how to change?

  8. #7
    JohnJJO's Avatar
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    Re: '01 Catera, starts up but dies

    Description and Operation

    Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor

    The Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor works in conjunction with a single tooth reluctor wheel on the bank 2 intake camshaft. The ECM pulls up the CMP sensor signal circuit to 12 volts and monitors this voltage. As the reluctor wheel tooth rotates past the sensor, the sensors internal circuitry pulls the signal circuit to ground, creating a square wave signal used by the ECM. The reluctor wheel tooth covers 180 degrees of the camshaft circumference. This causes the CMP signal voltage to transition once per crankshaft revolution. This signal, when combined with the Crankcase Position (CKP) sensor signal, enables the ECM to determine exactly which cylinder is on a firing stroke. The ECM can then properly synchronize the ignition system, the fuel injectors, and the knock control. Note that as long as the CKP signal is available, the engine can start even if there is no CMP sensor signal. The ECM will default to non-sequential fuel injector operation. The DTC P0340-CMP Sensor Circuit indicates that the ECM has detected a CMP system fault.
    84990651.gif
    REMOVAL PROCEDURE
    86415451.gif
    Disconnect the wiring harness from the camshaft position (CMP) sensor (1).
    Remove the A/C low pressure line bracket.
    Remove the hold down bolts for the wiring harness to the intake plenum to gain access to the sensor.
    Remove the fastening bolt for the CMP sensor.
    Remove the CMP sensor and the O-ring seal from the camshaft cover.
    INSTALLATION PROCEDURE
    Thoroughly clean the mating surfaces of the CMP sensor (1) and the camshaft cover.
    Install the CMP sensor with a new O-ring seal into the camshaft cover.
    NOTE: Refer to Fastener Notice in Service Precautions.

    Install the fastening bolt for the CMP sensor.
    Tighten
    Tighten the bolt to 8 N.m (71 lb in) .

    Install the hold down bolts for the wiring harness to the intake plenum.
    Install the A/C low pressure line bracket.
    Connect the wiring harness to the CMP sensor. Ensure the correct cable routing.

  9. #8
    vekspec's Avatar
    vekspec is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: '01 Catera, starts up but dies

    awesome! thanks everyone for the input! I replaced the CPS sensor...getting below the car was kinda tricky but was able to replace. the car still however won't keep running after ignition so I ran the code check again and I got Mass Air Flow sensor code p0100 (i believe). So i disconnected the MAF and viola! the car starts up and runs fine now and the RPM hovers in the 1000 range without dying! woohoo!

    So i ordered a new MAF sensor and hopefully that fixes it completely! still 200 bucks-ish for plugs, CPS and MAF...much better than going to the shop lol. and I learned a little more about car repair

    I will keep you guys updated on how my little Catera does but I just want to thank everyone right now for all the input/help in finding a solution to this problem =)

  10. #9
    JohnJJO's Avatar
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    Re: '01 Catera, starts up but dies

    after u put new maf sensor there, dont plug it!!!!!!!! while battery connected !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    unplug battery or 20 min, install maf, connect battery, DO NOT start your car !!!!!! put key on position right before cranking position and let it sit for 3 min (this is computer loading procedure)

  11. #10
    vekspec's Avatar
    vekspec is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: '01 Catera, starts up but dies

    oh dear...i put in the MAF while it was still connected O.o it started up and ran fine, idling around 500 rpm. should I redo it with your procedure then?

    slight issue I noticed, i took the car out for a run, didn't encounter any problems but on the way back from the grocery store, it took a couple of tries to start the car. should I worry about that? do you think your procedure will fix that?

    Edit: I have an auto scanner from Sears, that's how I figured out the codes. I used that to reset the computer/codes. Will that do the trick or should I still unplug the battery?

  12. #11
    slimrob is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: '01 Catera, starts up but dies

    Hi Vekspec:

    So did that do the trick? How is your Caddy running?

    To All in Forum:

    My brother-in-law bought a 1999 Catera less than a year ago. It had tranny problems so he changed the tranny. Car ran good for months and suddenly without prior warning, he parked the car in front of my house a couple of months ago and hasn't started since. Right now, it starts for a second or two, then dies, just ike Vekspec's car above. If I put it in neutral, it cranks but doesn't even attemp to start. Same thing if I try to start it with the brakes depressed. It will only start for a second or two in "Park".

    We rented a DTC scan tool a couple of days ago from our local autoparts store and gave us 10 DTC's:

    1. U2108 - ABS
    2. P1700 - Transmission Control Module
    3. P0135 - Oxgen Sensor
    4. P0300 - Random Multi Misfire
    5, 6, 7. P0301, P0303, P0305 - Cylinder misfires
    8. P0500 - Vehicle Speed Sensor (speedometer doesn't work, but it was running like that before)
    9. P0150 - Oxygen Sensor
    10. P0650 - Malfunction Indicator Lamp

    *Sorry for the incomplete diagnostics descriptions above; i just wrote down short versions cause we needed to return the Scan Tool.

    Today, I've replaced the CPS and fuel filter, so we can rule those out. I'm gonna try disconnecting the MAF sensor tomorrow and see what happens.

    So my first question, are Cateras originally able to start in "neutral", or must it always be in "park"?
    Second, which one of the above DTC's would prevent the car from running? My brother-in-law is super short in money so he can't afford to do much more "guess work". I suspect it's an engine to tranny communication issue, but your inputs will be highly appreciated. I will definitely update if I get it running by disconnecting the MAF sensor.

    Thank you all in advance!!! And thank you, John, for that great reply above.

  13. #12
    slimrob is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: '01 Catera, starts up but dies

    Hi All:

    Well, disconnected the MAF sensor and no can do. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

  14. #13
    JohnJJO's Avatar
    JohnJJO is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Abs, speed sensor problem its your ABS module need to be fix or replaced. U can remove ABS assembly, disconnect module and send it to guys for restoring, I did mine for $120 with lifetime warranty three years ago. I would start with that first.
    Oxygen sensors came up cuz u had missfire and its through out alote fuel and make sensors wet so u got a code. Main problem u have in miss fire. It dieing on u cuz u probably have really bad missfire. Mass air flow sensor nothing got to do with that regarding its working or not, car will still runs and drive. In my case camshaft and crankshaft position sensor fail was making vehicle not to start. If I'm not mistaken I did not had a code on camshaft sensor fail but on crankshaft I did. I didn't had a missfire in both cases. Missfire on cylinders 1, 3 and 5 means two things: u have a bad coil pack or blown head gasket. If your timing belt could slip on cams you would hear knocking noise. For some reason cateras ecm system will not show u all cylinders missfire it will show u only three and on four will throw a code of multiple missfire. So if u have missfire on 2, 4 and 6 too u will never know. To find out that u need to reset codes, start your vehicle few times untill u get check engine and check with scanner, if u have same cylinders missfire 1,3 and 5 that possibly your coil or blown head gasket. I would start with coil first. If other cylinders missfire showed up I would check air hose that connect to heatter control valve, in my case it was cracked inside and air hose was sucking coolant in to intake mixing with air and was creating missfire.

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    Code u2108, p1700 and p0500 will go away after ABS module will be rebuilt on eBay u can find a lot of guys who do it for way cheaper then $120. New coil pack u can find online for around $70, buy only ACDelco. AutoZone salles Duralast brand that died on me one time and its like $110. I had missfire on cylinder 1,3 and 5. Had same thing car was quitting on me some times.
    P0650 code is here: http://www.ls2.com/boggs/dtcs/DTC%20P0650.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaustein View Post

    CPS Crankshaft positioning sensor. Very common problem with these car and one of the cheaper fixes. About $150
    From dealler probably yes, from stores like AutoZone or advance around $50-60, on online u can find it for $30-40

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