ECM Replacement

[moerome]

The ECM (brain box) has gone out on my '99 Cat. The dealship wants 400.00 (+) for a new one and another $300.00 (+) to program and install. All in all, I'm looking at $740.00 and some change.

I've been checking around and found one out on ebay for $100.00!!! Albeit used, but in good condition after speaking with the vendor.

However, my dilemma is that the part #'s this vendor lists does not match up with the ECM part # in my Cat. After some indepth research, I found that my ECM is from Saturn !?!?!?!?!?! Did some more digging, and was briefed by one parts dealer/mechanic that ECMs for '97 - '99 Cats are pretty much the same, and I shouldn't have a problem since Saturn is GM made (or visa versa, I forget).

I know if I go the route of the $100.00 ECM deal, I'll probably get jacked on the programming by the dealership.

Anyone out there, please advise. I need to make a decision post haste. Thx.

[Warez]

The 1999 engines were redesigned and I'm pretty sure that those ECM's are identical to the 2000 and 2001 version. The best would be to go to the dealer and look up the part numbers.

I would go with the $100 eBay route but get it re-flashed somewhere else. Any garage with a GM Tech-II scan tool can do it. The process takes no more than 30 minutes. $300 for a reporgram is simply absurd. The replacement of the actual ECM is very simple. It is located in the relay box directly in front of the battery. Replacement takes virtually no more than 5 minutes.

With regard to the Saturn ECM's being identical: Though the L300 sedan and Vue both had the same engine (also some Saab's), I think that the electronics were slightly different in regard to not having MAF sensors. But I also don't think that there should be an issue.

BTW the ECU and catalytic convertors are covered under an 8-year emission warrantee. 1999 is close but depending what month the car was registered, it may still be covered.

[moerome]

If that 8 year warranty is the real deal, then I may be in business. Wouldn't you know it, after reading the reply, I can't get a hold of anyone in the service dept. at the dealership.

Oh yeah, while delving further into this issue, and talking with several parts departments at dealerships, here's what I found (forgive me, but this is a long read):

The part # on my ECM is 9153242. Okay, while chasing this number down, I found out it's an ECM made by Saturn. The only mystery is which Saturn vehicle, I have the foggiest (neither does anyone else). Anyhow, I priced them retail & wholesale and got a range of $450.78 to $337.72, depending on who you go with. Plus, I still have to get the software installed and programmed for my Cat (from what I was told, $262.00).

The Ebayer with the $100.00 ECM referred to part #'s 9119538, 9152342, & 90566574. I contacted the ebayer, and they have Hollander indexing their part #s. So, it doesn't necessarily mean that their ECM would indeed fit my '99 Cat.

Spoke with a parts guy at a dealership I used to do business with in Minnesota, and after some querying, we both learned that my part #
9153242 superceded the part # 9119538. He surmised that when GM switch parts vendors, they have a propensity of changing part #s. Never heard of this, but I wouldn't put it past GM to do such a thing.

Back to the ebayer's listing. I noticed that my part # 9153242 and their listed part # 9152342 have the middle numbers transposed (see bolded numbers).

This is becoming a real kick in the head. But, when strapped for cash (just paid the mortgage), this research is making me more educated (and more confident of working on this Cat myself). I cling on to the hope of the 8 year emission warranty.

[moerome]

That EPA 8 year emission warranty is 8 years or 80,000 miles. My Cat just turned 110,000 last week. Oh well, a slight hope just faded away.

Looks like I'm at the mercy of getting it reprogrammed by the dealership. Just finished checking around town and it seems they're the ONLY ones that does the reflashing. I guess that's the caveat of living in a small Southeastern town.

[Warez]

Originally Posted by moerome

The part # on my ECM is 9153242. Okay, while chasing this number down, I found out it's an ECM made by Saturn. The only mystery is which Saturn vehicle, I have the foggiest (neither does anyone else).

L300

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...17/149169.html

and

Vue

http://www.autointell.com/nao_compan...urn-vue-02.htm

Only the early model years of the Vue used the same engine, later ones used a Honda V6 (in exchange for GM diesel engines for the European market).

Also some Saabs used the same engine.

Originally Posted by moerome

The Ebayer with the $100.00 ECM referred to part #'s 9119538, 9152342, & 90566574. I contacted the ebayer, and they have Hollander indexing their part #s. So, it doesn't necessarily mean that their ECM would indeed fit my '99 Cat.

I would be interested to know if the ECU's are already flashed or arrive blank from GM. If the they arrive flashed from GM (therfore different part numbers for differnt cars even though the hardware is all compatible) then it would make sense that you could use one from another vehicle and have it reflashed.

Originally Posted by moerome

Back to the ebayer's listing. I noticed that my part # 9153242 and their listed part # 9152342 have the middle numbers transposed (see bolded numbers).

Ask the seller to confirm the number, could be a typo.


These may be helpful:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/00-05...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-...QQcmdZViewItem

The Catera ECU is manufactured by Bosch, ask the sellers if the L300 are also by Bosch (should be marked somwhere on it). If they are then it's a good bet they may be identical.

[moerome]

Originally Posted by Warez

I would be interested to know if the ECU's are already flashed or arrive blank from GM. If the they arrive flashed from GM (therfore different part numbers for differnt cars even though the hardware is all compatible) then it would make sense that you could use one from another vehicle and have it reflashed.

Ask the seller to confirm the number, could be a typo.


The Catera ECU is manufactured by Bosch, ask the sellers if the L300 are also by Bosch (should be marked somwhere on it). If they are then it's a good bet they may be identical.

If I have to get it reflashed (which looks like I have no other choice but go to the dealership), does the ECM HAVE to be in the car for the reflash, or can I get it reflashed, then install myself?

I'm getting in contact with the seller to confirm that transposed number.

From what I understand (or it could be too much researching into the issue), I think that Saturn ECU is a Bosch device. I'll have to look again.

[Warez]

Yes the ECU must be in a car in order for the shop to do the re-flash.

[moerome]

Warez:

Thanks for the narrowing down of the Saturns. I trace the part # of the ECM to the Saturn L300 3.0LV6 sedan. Turns out it is indeed one in the same ECM.

After much searching, I found one for $60.00 (a far cry from $450.00). Although used, it is in good condition. Now the next hurdle, I have a buddy who has his own shop in Michigan. He said to send both ECMs up to him and he could get them reflashed for about $75.00. Hence my question was it a requirement for the ECM to physically be in the car for the reflash. Or, should I get in a pi$$ing contest with the dealership and call them out on how they charge such an absurd price for a reflash (~$300.00) that takes only 30 minutes (0.5 hours in the book) to do.

[Warez]

Some companies that specialize in automotive electronics will have the equipment to flash them outside of a car. Since the ports on each ECU vary from model to model, not to mention manufactures, this is not something any typical garage can do. Maybe your friend intends to take it to someone who has access to this equipment.

When the ECU arrives, install it in the car yourself and see if the car runs. If it does then drive it to the dealer for the reflash, at least in that case they will not charge you for the 5 minutes it takes to install it should you decide to have the dealer flash it.

I borrowed a GM Tech-II scan tool from a friend about 2 months ago to reprogram my 2nd key FOB. It didn’t even take me 5 minutes and the dealer wanted to charge 1 hour labor for this.

Though re-flashing an ECU is a bit more complicated, it doesn’t take very long. This is what is involved:

1) connecting the Tech-II to a PC where the new firmware for the ECU is uploaded onto the Tech-II.

2) connect the Tech-II to the port under the steering wheel, click a few menu options and done.

No more than 30 minutes involved.

So it may be worth trying to haggle with the dealer.


BTW how did the original one fail anyways?

[frank moran]

Originally Posted by moerome

Warez:

Thanks for the narrowing down of the Saturns. I trace the part # of the ECM to the Saturn L300 3.0LV6 sedan. Turns out it is indeed one in the same ECM.

After much searching, I found one for $60.00 (a far cry from $450.00). Although used, it is in good condition. Now the next hurdle, I have a buddy who has his own shop in Michigan. He said to send both ECMs up to him and he could get them reflashed for about $75.00. Hence my question was it a requirement for the ECM to physically be in the car for the reflash. Or, should I get in a pi$$ing contest with the dealership and call them out on how they charge such an absurd price for a reflash (~$300.00) that takes only 30 minutes (0.5 hours in the book) to do.

just to add some info to your findings, the Catera 3.0 enginge is also used in the Saturn you mention and Saab. I saved some money buying Saab lifters (6) at $19. vs Cad at $49. just some fyi. Many ecm's are shared, if you sniff it out like you did you can save some bucks, good job.

[moerome]

Reason for failure.....honestly don't know. It must have occurred while I was addressing the CPS issue. It was shortly (almost a week) after the CPS replacement. In hindsight, it could have been the prime suspect all along during the first experienced, "crank but won't start".

I spoke with a tech in Northeast Philly who works for Cardone Industries. Cardone specializes in R & R ECMs. I was concerned about the ECM that is on the way is coming from an entirely different vehicle. After explaining my situation to him, he summarized that as long as the two parts are identical (e.g. OEM, same part #s, etc.), then during the reflashing, the new firmware will overwrite whatever is currently on it. So, I should be good to go.

Since the car is still at the dealership, I'm going to take the new ECM, tell them to install it (w/o putting it in the vehicle), and I will install it myself right then and there. Or, (similar to your suggestion), take it up there, install it myself, then have them reflash it.

Either way, the only thing I want them to do is install the new firmware. I just may have to call them out on trying to trump up cost for only 30 minutes of work if they try it. Worse case scenario, they won't guarantee the ECM which would be fine by me as long as they flash it.

I will also save my old ECM and get a R & R done on it at a later date, and keep it as a spare.

[moerome]

Another stumbling block in the saga of getting a replacement ECM installed in my '99 Cat. Here goes.........

In our last episode, I had mentioned in a previous thread of this post that I found an ECM off a 00 Saturn L300, same OEM part # for $60.00 vs. paying $450.00 for a brand new one from the dealership. Anyhow, the part came in yesterday evening.

This morning, I spoke with the service guy about the cost for a reflash of the used ECM. After conferring with the mechanic, he comes up with an interesting explanation:
1. The mechanic needs the VIN from the vehicle the ECM came from.
2. He would have to contact GM to get "security codes".
3. The "security codes" are needed to unlock the information of the vehicle on the used ECM.
4. Then, he would need to "remove" the old information.
5. Install the new firmware with my vehicle information.
6. Total cost of the process............$365.00!!!!!!!

I told them that's okay. I will be up to get my Cat and have it towed back home, and send my ECM off for an R & R for a third of the cost.

Has anyone heard of this process with ECMs?? It was sounding like a bunch of crock since I spoke with a tech at Cardone Industries who specialize in R $ R of ECMs. He told me it was pretty much a matter of overwriting the firmware and vehicle information with mine.

[CateraMV6]

The question I have for these ECUs is do I need to have the VIN# of my car flashed onto the new ECU in order to install it or does that not matter... what about the chip in the keys?

Please advise... I just bought an ECU out of a 2001 Catera with same numbers as mine and I plan on installing an aftermarket chip for it... and then swapping between the two ECUs... since it takes minutes to replace them...

[kaustein]

What about these guys?

http://www.modulemaster.com/en/index.php

Did my abs module for $200 and saved me $1500 vs dealer and came with a 5 year guarantee!