93 Deville w/Bose problems
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Cadillac Audio, Video and Security Systems Discussion, 93 Deville w/Bose problems in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; Hey everybody I got a factory Bose in my 93 Deville, sounded great when I bought the car in 2000. ...
  1. #1
    dennis93coupe's Avatar
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    93 Deville w/Bose problems

    Hey everybody I got a factory Bose in my 93 Deville, sounded great when I bought the car in 2000. Slowly everything seems to have gradually gone down hill since then. So after a couple of years the CD player worked fine and then wouldn't work at all so I just quit using. Later I started getting a buzzing sound from one or some of the speakers. I parked it soon after that for 6 years and forgot about it. When I got it back on the road again all of these problems were still there so I began to address them. I found a place in Saginaw, MI that fixed the CD player problem, worked like a champ. Later I found Cadillac forums and got some ideas about where to find cheap parts. Also upon doing some investigation I found the Bose systems are real expensive to fix. Was told all of the amps should be changed if one goes bad. Every one of these cars that has a Bose as Bose claims is specially tailored to the body. Ok so usually I can find amps in Sevilles or El Dorados that appear to be ok if the radio is still in the car at the junk yard. I know that is being cheap, but on a limited income I fix what I can afford and Bose amps with a speaker I can buy for 15 to 20 bucks depending who is the cashier at the junk yard. I have a sound meter so I can usually tell if something is good in that repect. Usuall I find if the front is weak the rear is also weak. I replace a amp yesterday with a good one and the front has better volumn. The other side is a little weak so I'm going to get those changed today. One of the front amps I changed a couple years ago blew a couple days ago so I relplaced it, picture included. I know it's time to scrap the Bose thing so I'm thinking about just replacing the whole sound system with something else. I would like to leave the original head unit in the dash just for a dummy, less attrative to a break in. I'd also like to mount the replacement in the trunk (if possible)with a single amp and maybe a six CD changer, change the speakers to the same size that are in the doors and trunk. Will I have trouble with the signal from a remote? Will I need to mount the radio inside the car somewhere. I have some room inside of the rear pillars I think but don't know if that would be a good place, maybe something under the seat instead. So what am I looking for in regards to ohm rating for speakers? What do I need for an amp? Brand names and where to buy? I don't need loud thumpin bass or anything like that, my hearing is already damaged form excessive noise in my younger years. So I'm looking for affordable dependable sound.

    Any and all help will be very much appreciated.

    DSC00735.jpg

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  3. #2
    cadillac kevin's Avatar
    cadillac kevin is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: 93 Deville w/Bose problems

    Dennis.
    do you want the factory HU to function (play through the aftermarket setup) or just sit there (no power, etc). the the second way would be alot easier, but the first way would be cooler (having a functioning factory cd player). given the way you decide to hook up the system (what components you use) it would not be that hard to have the factory radio operational.
    However, you cannot have both a CD changer and the factory radio operational (AFAIK no radios have both a rear aux input and a remote cd changer)
    personally I would get something with a in dash cd player (unless you want a cassette player too), and a rear aux line in (most are 3.5 mm jack instead of the RCA inputs). if you get something with a CD player and USB slot, that will take the place of a CD changer (I still like cd changers, but usb is the way of the future- carrying 5k songs in something the size of a BIC lighter. I guess as long as you dont listen to albums where the tracks are in a specific order (ala a concept album), it won't matter. using the rear aux as a feed from the factory radio would negate the need for a bank of relays or external amps in order to switch between sources (saving you alot of money and alot of time).
    as for where to buy, I use crutchfield. sonic electronix is another good site. one good thing about crutchfield is that they have free advisors you can talk to to help you pick out components. another good thing is you can ask the advisor if they have anything discontinued sitting around that would fit what you want as far as stereos or speakers. sometimes they have gear on a back shelf somewhere that isn't listed online and is pretty cheap because they want it gone.
    I would not mention that you want to use a delco bose radio (most people become immediately scared due to modern bose car stereos being a PITA to work around).
    one thing to ask (if you intend on plugging the factory radio outputs into the aftermarket radio line in) would be if the radio automatically switches to the aux input as soon as something is plugged into it or if it needs to have an audio signal to turn on or if it is done by you via a source button.

    as for replacing the bose amps/ speakers
    first you will need to run all new speaker lines to the 4 speakers in your car. I recommend 16 or 18 awg wiring (I buy mine at home depot by the foot). you will need approximately 50 feet of wire (always get at least 5 more feet than you think you need). I think my fwb has about 65 feet of wiring in it.

    speakers- look around. infinitys are good budget speakers if you want more bass. kenwoods provide clearer mids and highs than infinitys IMO, but unless you use them with a kenwood receiver, the bass is missing for some reason. same thing with alpine speakers and most other brands (missing bass). I also like polk speakers. they're a good deal. (if you can still find them, their DB series was great).

    for the front door mounted speaker pods, I assume yours look like this? (these are from a seville IIRC) if not, I assume they are the rectangular pods? (I dont recall what deville door panels look like)

    either way, the factory speaker size is 4 inches with 3 mounting holes, so you will have to do some modification (most speakers will require you to cut out the grate and front mount the speakers since the bose pods are shallow). I had a set of 4 inch blaupunkts that i really liked.
    with the seville/ eldorado pods, you can stick a 6.5 in them if you cut a hole in the front of the pod (front mount the speakers) and a hole in the back for the magnet to stick through)
    if you have the rectangular pods, you could probably get 4x6 plate speakers and modify the pods to accept them.
    the rear deck speakers are 6x9's IIRC. you can reuse the stock frames (IIRC, the speaker is bolted to the panel). as for 6x9s, I recommend polk db series if you can find them. I also like blaupunkts (IMO their new stuff isnt as good as their 80's/ early 90's gear but I have a set of their newer speakers and I'm quite happy with them)
    if theres anything else you have questions about, lmk.

  4. #3
    dennis93coupe's Avatar
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    Re: 93 Deville w/Bose problems

    Ok, I'm going to have to read that again about twenty times.. I'll get it eventually.
    So let me ask you this, I have a couple of head units both are factory. I would like to use them because they have the matching buttons and knobs to the rest of my instrumentation. They are not the Delco with the equalizers. I have seen a lot of Deville in the 85-87 range lately, some have the same physical shape, face plate etc. except the bottom area just below the cassette there is printed "Symphony Sound" So I'm assuming Cadillac, GM just used that name on the faceplate 85-87 and then used that same face plate maybe the whole unit for 89-93 only printed on the display Delco Bose Gold Series. They both look the same. And I am assuming then they used the symphony sound on the units with the graphic equalizer.

    Anyway, here's a brainstorm you gave me after briefly reading from your post about USB. Can a USB port be installed on a AM/FM Cassette unit? I can do the work if I have a schematic. I just need to know what goes where. I can cut holes mount things, assemble circuit boards, desolder, solder, not much I can't do. The radios I have are cheap, I can buy them all day long for 10 bucks apiece. I just want to get rid of the unit I have in there now because it's ugly to me. I like this USB thing, I've got thumbdrives running out my ears, nose and ass from doing backups and storing files from past job. Is this possible or am I just dreaming? Can these things be bought from digi-key? I haven't looked yet. I need to order some switches for my KE remotes, (cheap chinese components) in the next day or two anyway. How does this USB work? Anyway just tell me if it can be done.

    So I was at the junkyard day before yesterday, got me a couple of amps with speakers for $25.21 for a pair. Went back today and got the other 2 because they were good working parts yet. Another $25.21 and I got more spares for now until I get this all sorted out. While I was pulling the rear units out, I noticed a box on the side of the trunk that had the antennae coax going to it and then the wiring went from there to who knows where. Lots of pairs of wires, four pairs looked like they were shielded. Do you know what that thing is? Only had Delco on it, didn't have Bose or anything. I am just curious. (Almost forgot I have a factory parts book for E and K 92-93, will have to look that up tomorrow.) Anyway I blew an amp a couple days ago and I thought all hell was breaking loose. Got home and pulled it out and had a nasty burn on it. It went in the trash. I refuse to spend a lot of money fixing that system, so I'm ready to jump ship from barfin Bose.

    I see what you did on your front door speakers, pretty slick. Yeah the Deville C body has something similar to that. I think if I pull the Bose boxes out, I can put bigger speakers in, and as far as that goes I could get the factory plain ol Delco enclosures from the junk yard. They used the same carpet covers thing on both, delco or Bose, left the Bose placque off on the standard units. The rears are a no brainer, 6x9's that are screwed to the box that takes about one minute to drop and work on. They aren't a pain to get off like the sedans.

    I really appreciate all your help on this, never really did much with audio in the past, so looking forward to this little project.

    ----------

    Ok, I just looked at Crutchfield. I think the most painless thing to do is just leave the original head unit in the dash, leave the lighting only connected so I have a clock that works. Take the antenna coax down to under the carpet and hook up another unit under the seat. It stays pretty clean under there in my car so I don't worry about the dust much. Here's one that looks like it has more than enough to get me started.
    http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130DEH3...lt%40in#Remote Control
    It's got the USB thing, CD, HD, and the most important thing a REMOTE. Yeah I can live with that! So I guess if I download the manual, I should be able to figure out if I need an amp, and I'll get started on looking at speakers that you suggested. Do you see anything wrong with this unit? What about their 3 year warranty for what 16 bucks?

  5. #4
    cadillac kevin's Avatar
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    Re: 93 Deville w/Bose problems

    symphony sound is not delco bose. externally they look the same, but they are different
    symphony sound-
    internal 4 channel amp
    delcosound speakers- available in 4 or 8 ohm
    delco bose
    NO internal amp
    4 externally mounted bose amps rated at 25 watts rms @ 1 ohm for bose gold series

    if the factory head unit will be just for display (clock and not radio) you will need the following wired hooked in
    switched power
    Illumination (dash lights)
    memory (constant power)
    ground wire(s)- some delco units had 2 ground wires for some reason
    what i would do for hooking up the aftermarket radio
    run a new power line from the junction box in the engine (unless you know the location of the panel inside the interior where all the optional electronics plug into- in which case tap the appropriate terminals there).
    For just an aftermarket HU and nothing else, I would run 14 or 16 gauge (this will serve as constant power (memory) and switched power for the radio. most radios require power from both to run. remember to fuse the power line close to where it hooks in (just in case)
    if you tap the interior junction box for constant and switched power, disregard the next part.
    the power line will split off in 2 at some point in the interior.
    1 part will run to the radio for memory.
    the second part will have a relay to turn it on and off. this relay can be powered by a few sources- the switched power that is turned on by the ignition (not sure what is involved to tap into this). or, the amplifier turn on lead from a bose radio/ antenna turn on from the factory radio. if the radio displays the clock when it is turned on, you can use this (since you said you wanted the clock on the factory radio to work).

    as for mounting location
    under the seat should work fine. I'd get the radio up off the carpet a bit just in case you get a water leak at some point. personally, I would make the power leads longer and make it somewhat removable so that if needbe you could adjust the settings on the radio without laying on the floor of the car (you'd also have to reach under the seat to insert a usb stick or cd.) I dont know if that remote allows you to change between presets on the radio.

    for the radio you posted up (pioneer), console mounting would be ruled out unless you could mount it at an angle of less than 60 degrees (necessary for proper CD player operation).
    otherwise, I'd say thats a great radio. I like pioneer stereos. they have a reputation for being incredibly rugged and that radio is well optioned given the price. if you go with the pioneer radio, you should not need an additional amplifier. 14 watts rms x 4 is plenty good for most people.

    as for adding a USB drive slot to an old radio, I guess it could be done. I've never heard of anyone attempting it DIY though and no one makes something that can read audio off a usb stick for in car applications (alot of work for minimal gain since most people will simply buy a new radio that accepts USB sticks)

  6. #5
    dennis93coupe's Avatar
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    Re: 93 Deville w/Bose problems

    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac kevin View Post
    symphony sound is not delco bose. externally they look the same, but they are different
    symphony sound-
    internal 4 channel amp
    delcosound speakers- available in 4 or 8 ohm
    delco bose
    NO internal amp
    4 externally mounted bose amps rated at 25 watts rms @ 1 ohm for bose gold series
    Got it.

    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac kevin View Post
    if the factory head unit will be just for display (clock and not radio) you will need the following wired hooked in
    switched power
    Illumination (dash lights)
    from dimmer wire on headlight switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac kevin View Post
    memory (constant power)
    ground wire(s)- some delco units had 2 ground wires for some reason
    what i would do for hooking up the aftermarket radio
    run a new power line from the junction box in the engine (unless you know the location of the panel inside the interior where all the optional electronics plug into- in which case tap the appropriate terminals there).
    For just an aftermarket HU and nothing else, I would run 14 or 16 gauge (this will serve as constant power (memory) and switched power for the radio. most radios require power from both to run. remember to fuse the power line close to where it hooks in (just in case)
    if you tap the interior junction box for constant and switched power, disregard the next part.
    the power line will split off in 2 at some point in the interior.
    1 part will run to the radio for memory.
    the second part will have a relay to turn it on and off. this relay can be powered by a few sources- the switched power that is turned on by the ignition (not sure what is involved to tap into this). or, the amplifier turn on lead from a bose radio/ antenna turn on from the factory radio. if the radio displays the clock when it is turned on, you can use this (since you said you wanted the clock on the factory radio to work).
    Ok I'll have to look for the wire that is 12v because the digital display on dash and bose radio is vacuum flourescent, works on 16v, but I can figure that out from the FSM.


    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac kevin View Post
    as for mounting location under the seat should work fine. I'd get the radio up off the carpet a bit just in case you get a water leak at some point. personally, I would make the power leads longer and make it somewhat removable so that if needbe you could adjust the settings on the radio without laying on the floor of the car (you'd also have to reach under the seat to insert a usb stick or cd.) I dont know if that remote allows you to change between presets on the radio.
    I've had second thoughts now on putting it under the seat, not really enough room. The remote is more or less worthless from what I understand, IR so it would have to be aimed somewhat at the faceplate? Not sure about that. I might have to settle for mounting on floor in the middle under dash. I could always make up a harness with latching connectors, coil it up under the seat...

    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac kevin View Post
    for the radio you posted up (pioneer), console mounting would be ruled out unless you could mount it at an angle of less than 60 degrees (necessary for proper CD player operation).
    I saw that one and figured it was affordable, not sure it was the most reliable and after reading some of the reviews people that know audio don't like the controls. I don't know, guess I'd have to go look and get a hands on demo to decide.
    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac kevin View Post
    otherwise, I'd say thats a great radio. I like pioneer stereos. they have a reputation for being incredibly rugged and that radio is well optioned given the price. if you go with the pioneer radio, you should not need an additional amplifier. 14 watts rms x 4 is plenty good for most people.
    Any suggestions on ohms speakers for the front 4 - 8 - 10 ?? I think it's possible to stuff a bigger diameter speaker in the enclosure front corner of door, might be able to get a 5 1/4 to fit. I had some spare enclosures from past junkyard scavenging and threw them in the trash recently, stupid me. And what about the rear, I'd go with 6x9's but what about ohms on those 4 - 8 - 10 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by cadillac kevin View Post
    as for adding a USB drive slot to an old radio, I guess it could be done. I've never heard of anyone attempting it DIY though and no one makes something that can read audio off a usb stick for in car applications (alot of work for minimal gain since most people will simply buy a new radio that accepts USB sticks)
    I agree, would be more trouble than it's worth. A couple things I would like to have is the radio on for about 10-15 minutes after the key is off depending on how long the cars energy reserve module holds a charge, very easy to do just need to look at the schmematic. Also the antennae which I'm sure will operate on most any aftermarket unit, or most anyway. Decisions decisions, in all reality I could live without the CD and plug tunes in from the USB.

    What makes the newer Bose different from my dinosaur unit? They only have one amp,no?

  7. #6
    cadillac kevin's Avatar
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    Re: 93 Deville w/Bose problems

    Illumination- yes, I meant dash light dimmer wire. if you cut it out, the radio's display just stays on full brightness (my delco bose radio had a problem where it had no clock and the display would black out when dash lights came on/ dimmer was used). I thought those displays were 12 volt, not 16 volt (mine worked fine on 12 volt and the schematic I had said 12 volt IIRC).
    as for mounting the radio, do you have a center console? if so, you could stick it in there facing upwards (the radio would be sideways though and it would need to have some room to breathe).

    the remote should work without being pointed directly at the radio.

    antenna- you will need a miniplug to standard size adapter (forget the actual name for it) as well as an extension. Oreilly auto parts sells a 4 ft extension for the antenna plug for $5-$10 (forget how much, but it wasnt much). It fits pretty well.
    the miniplug to standard size antenna adapter would cost $10 or so if you can find one (the ones they sell at autozone do not work). I have an extra one I'd sell you for the cost of shipping.
    as for newer bose amps, most are one main amp instead of one amp per speaker. I would not recommend installing a new bose amp though. IIRC, some of the new amps are not one ohm stable (they're 1.5 or 2 ohm stable).
    also, just something else to think about.
    you could wire the new radio to feed in through the factory radio where the factory tape deck/ CD player hooks in
    this site seems to do a good job of describing the basics of what are involved
    http://home.hiwaay.net/~davida1/radio.htm

  8. #7
    dennis93coupe's Avatar
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    Re: 93 Deville w/Bose problems

    OK thanks for all that information. I'll check that link.

  9. #8
    still_walkin's Avatar
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    I have a 93 deville and if u still need help j replaced All the speakers and rewired it all . Message me if you need anything

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