Installed OEM HU now NO sound! Help Please!
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Cadillac Audio, Video and Security Systems Discussion, Installed OEM HU now NO sound! Help Please! in Item Specific Cadillac Discussion; This is my second post. My wife's car is a 1998 Cadillac Deville Sedan. It came with an AM/FM/Cassette that ...
  1. #1
    Papas-Attic is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Installed OEM HU now NO sound! Help Please!

    This is my second post. My wife's car is a 1998 Cadillac Deville Sedan. It came with an AM/FM/Cassette that worked fine. She wanted to add CD, so I bought and installed the correct OEM AM/FM/Cassette/CD HU, this is a delco HU and the HU I replaced was also Delco. Took it to Cadillac and they unlocked it ($47.50 plus tax). All the features seem to work properly, BUT NO SOUND. I was even able to set the clock. Do I need a external amplifier or will I have to rewire the car? I am at a loss. I am thinking of adding the 12 disk remote CD changer (OEM), in the trunk. I am not sure if I can do that and still have a single disk HU up front? Thank you. God Bless you and yours.

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    N*Caddy's Avatar
    N*Caddy is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Installed OEM HU now NO sound! Help Please!

    Notice the small BOSE logo on the left corner of the HU screen, it makes ALL the difference in the word.

    It is at least concerning that the dealer did not mentioned to you before starting the job that you made a BIG mistake. Basically your car has base sound system while the unit you just installed is BOSE. It is as different as it could ever be. The base sound systems have everything in the HU, from HU the wires go straight to the speakers. The BOSE sound system is way, way more complicated, the HU is just a simple user interface with buttons and screen, there is a extra module in trunk called RIM (most of the people understand it as amplifier but in reality it is NOT and amplifier is a sound processing unit). The RIM is where the sound bass/trebble, DSP, balance, fade and volume is controlled. The BOSE HU sends to the RIM a 2 ch. constant (low) level sound signal (Radio/Tape/In-Dash CD) and a single ch. constant (low) level sound signal for the chimes. The RIM also receives the 2 ch. constant (low) audio signal for the (optional) CD changer and the single channel audio signal from the (optional) cell phone module. In the base system the CD changer and cell phone connect to the HU. Then is a matter of speakers, BOSE systems have 2 extra speakers (in your car) and each speaker has its own amplifier. So the RIM sends to each speaker amplifier a low (but variable-volume controlled) level signal. The RIM also controls the power of there amplifiers (there is a matter of 2 extra relays and a fuse).
    What the heck, I could literally spend the whole night explaining how much different the BOSE sound system architecture is from the base one. Obviously the entire car has to be rewired in accordance and so on.
    If you need to know more have a look here. I did the BOSE conversion in my car about 2 years ago, it was a one year project (gathering the parts, making the harness and so on).
    The HU dose look the same (well similar) but is SO NOT. You should asked here on the forum before spending the money, generally before changing anything on a Cadillac check here, there are pretty knowledgeable people, I learned a lot from over the years.
    My advice is swap back to the original HU and add a 12 Disk OEM CD Changer. Is a plug-and-play thing and should cost you less than $100. But when you do buy one make sure it comes with the magazine (and all 12 trays). The magazine alone cost about $40. Also you will need a bracket-stand thing, this bracket is super cheap (~$18 at the dealer) and is specific to Cadillac (‘96-‘97Seville/’96-‘99Deville/’96-‘02Eldorado). The CD changer is used in some other GM cars (Pontiac/Corvette) but again the bracket is specific for each car. You don’t need anything else for the CD changer, there are a lot of people trying to sell you a harness for it, you don’t need it is already in the car. For further information about adding the CD changer see this link (is exactly what you need).
    Also keep in mind these CD changers are mounted in the trunk and are prone to water damages, when you open the trunk and is wet, the water will drip from the right corner exactly on the changer, so make sure the unit has no water damages (very common). Then another common issue with these CD changers is jammed disks. People are not really carefully and force the magazine out damaging the mechanism.
    Sorry for your experience!

  4. #3
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
    RippyPartsDept is offline Hi, I'm Chris - Please Read My Signature
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    Re: Installed OEM HU now NO sound! Help Please!

    great reply N*Caddy, this one post is probably the best explanation (with two good links too!)
    the bose system speakers each have an amp as part of the speaker, right? (you mentioned it but didn't explicitly say so)
    you're definitely the go-to guy around here for audio stuff on these models

    and Papas-Attic, if you want I can check on monday about getting these parts for you - i know a new cd changer is over $500 (discontinued from GM but a few dealers still have them)
    but we have a good source for used cadillac parts and I could check with them for you - might even be able to get all the hardware with it too (bracket and bolts)

    the bracket (if we can't get one with a used cd changer) will have to come from Vintage Parts warehouse since GM has discontinued that as well - but like N* said, it's pretty cheap $20 or so
    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at
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    Papas-Attic is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Installed OEM HU now NO sound! Help Please!

    Thank you gentlemen. You have no notion of my great appreciation. God bless you and yours.

    Papa

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    Papas-Attic is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Installed OEM HU now NO sound! Help Please!

    Yes Chris, I do need the remote CD changer, mount, bolts and cartridge. If you would not mind, please check for me. Thank you so much. God Bless.

    Papa

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    Twiggr's Avatar
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    Re: Installed OEM HU now NO sound! Help Please!

    N Caddy. Hello first of all and I want to say u seem very knowledgable about the cadillacs and in concern...the audio. I recently obtained a cd HU to replace my cassette model. My car was NOT outfitted with the BOSE system so it is the basic setup. I took great care to locate a HU that did not have BOSE designated on the face of the radio, so that I wouldnt run into the typical problems I found plague people in similiar situations....My problem is after the tech was able to flash the HU...everything worked EXCEPT no sound! I can put my stock back in and sound. Is there another way to see if this is a BOSE HU even tho it hasnt no ensignia on the face? I can send pics if u give me an address. I can send them of both radio's and my car as well. Im hoping there is something that needs to be done to radio to turn audio on or u have a miracle cure but im almost sure ur gonna tell me its a BOSE radio even tho its not designated. If it is, im gonna put my aftermarket unit in and wire the stock unit in the trunk so that my data lines are connected. Please help!! I been a member for a short period of time but have been using this site alot to help trobleshoot my problems....Great site! I just wish the aqdministraters gave me more priviledges so i contact people and such. Thanks and I await yer response

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    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
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    Re: Installed OEM HU now NO sound! Help Please!

    Twiggr, once you pass 10 posts there's not that many restrictions but you'll have to become a supporting member if you want a larger inbox/outbox or a signature or a custom avatar

    see here: http://www.cadillacforums.com/subscribe.html to find out what you get for the different levels of membership
    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at
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  9. #8
    N*Caddy's Avatar
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    Re: Installed OEM HU now NO sound! Help Please!

    NO, if it has CD is BOSE so it requires external amplifier (well is more than an amplifier, actually in an eldorado is not even an amplifier, is a sound processing unit) Each speaker has an amplifier (BOSE), plus the harness is COMPLETELY ABSOLUTELY TOTALLY different, the base and BOSE sound systems could not be more different, you have to pass over the fact that the face of the HU looks similar, that is just so it integrates in the overall interior design.
    I hate to give you the bad news but unless you:
    1) Rewire the car completely (the BOSE cars have a different harness, not even close to what is in a base car, and there is NO way to make some kind of adapter, you just need more wires);
    2) Change all 4 speakers (from base to BOSE w/integrated amplifiers)
    3) Add a RIM on the rear of the back seat (it is an empty space in the base cars)
    4) Add 2 relays and the AMP fuse
    All this work is beyond and above even the top notch GM dealerships not to mention the generic car stereo shops, and although doable it will probably overcome the value of the car (specially if you have to pay somebody to do it for you).
    Also going aftermarket is a no-no in my book. the BEST option BY FAR is to add a OEM 12 disk CD changer. The car is already wired for it and it will cost you less than $100, there is no programming involved, just screw the unit in the designated trunk area and plug the connector in, that's it!

    See here to find out more.

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    Twiggr's Avatar
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    Re: Installed OEM HU now NO sound! Help Please!

    Thanks! I guess i have a HU to sell to someone. I kinda figured as much. I wanted to be able to use a cd player without getting out of the car to swap disks. I totally understand tryin to keep OEM in the car but I think I'm gonna do what I thought about doin to begin with...relocating unit to trunk. My aftermarket HU is ready to push right in and it has the ipod and bluetooth, so i guess I'm gonna go that route with the harness I made to plug into the factory harness. I definetly appreciate the help and info and I may have inadvertantly emailed u after the post NCaddy...sorry. I was definetly hoping the cd HU was gonna work...i figured an easy plug and play. LOL. I'd look for a changer but I'm lazy and dont want to have to swap out discs every so often. If anyone out there needs a cd HU out of a 99 Eldo let me know. It works perfectly fine...had it vin changed at the dealer for my car...and otherwise except for a small hairline crack on the plastic molding...its fine. I'd let it go for $40+s/h. Thanks goys ...awesome website.

  11. #10
    N*Caddy's Avatar
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    Re: Installed OEM HU now NO sound! Help Please!

    Keep in mind the OEM CD changer holds 12 disks witch is generally more than you have in the car at any time. Just put the disks in and forget about it, swapping disks is just a matter of selecting 1-2-3-4-5-6 and for the disks 7 to 12 long press on 1-2-3..6 buttons. Is actually more convenient than swapping disks in the in-dash CD player and having disks loose in the car. I again underline how much simpler is to go with the CD changer. Remember Cadillac is not your usual car, that HU plays a roll in the car data line, it also does the clock (display only, the PCM actually has the clock), does the chimes the steering wheel controls, the memory settings, but good luck with your aftermarket.


    For those of you who wonder what is the difference between base and BOSE here are some simple diagrams:

    Above is the base sound system. Notice how the HU is the actually sound system, you get the power, data, antenna and lights (see on the right of the HU) and out of the HU the sound (already amplified) goes straight to the speakers (i.e. passive speakers). Also notice the E&D data goes to the CD changer (that's how the CD changer communicates with the HU) and also the CD changer audio signal goes back to the HU (as mentioned the HU does everything).

    Then you have the BOSE sound system as installed in the '96-'97 Seville/Eldorado (the HU has no in-dash CD for these years though):

    Much more complicated than expected. Notice in center the RIM, that IS THE SOUND system. The HU, the CD changer and the speakers are all attached to the RIM. The rim controls the volume level, the BASS, TREBLE, DSP, BALANCE, FADE. Both the HU is just a slave of the RIM. Notice on the right side of the HU you have the same wires as in the base sound system (power, data, antenna, lights). This is why when you plug the BOSE HU in a Base system it does light up it does appears as is working. Note still the HU is the one controlling the CD changer (E&D data line still goes between HU and CD changer) but see the audio wires from both HU and CD changer are going to the RIM. The sound level on these lines is low and constant (NOT VOLUME CONTROLLED). The HU also transmits the chimes to the RIM on a separate mono data line.
    As mentioned the RIM does the audio processing, selects the sources based on the signal received from HU on the data line. Then the sound coming out of the RIM although volume controlled (thus not constant level anymore) is still LOW level, the final stage amplification is done by each one of the 4 speakers amplifiers (attached to the speakers). Note that the amplifiers need power to operate so other than sound signal, to each speaker you have power for amplifiers. The amplifier power is controlled by the RIM withe the speakers ON signal that operates the two BOSE relays (left and right) turning ON/OFF the power from the AMP fuse.
    I hope by comparing the two diagrams you understand how different is the harness between a BOSE and a base car (the RIM is located in the trunk). This setup is used all the way to 2002 for Eldorado (just that after '98 they have the In Dash CD added to the HU - minor detail).

    The third is the BOSE/base setup from the '98+ Sevilles (also 00+ Deville):



    This setup is somehow similar with the older BOSE setup but with a difference in the number of speakers and the fact that the RIM now called AMP incorporates the amplifier too, so no more amplifiers on each speakers. Basically what ever comes out of the AMP is speaker level audio signal. They have an additional SUB and some (most) have also the nose cancellation microphone (also attached to the AMP). Still that unit is THE sound system, all the others are attachments.
    I did not included the optional cell phone module (later OnStar and Satellite Radio), they all connect to the RIM. Also I did not mentioned anything about the steering wheel controls, well the IPC in the '96-'97 Seville and '96-'02 Eldorado does the A/D translation while in '98+ Seville ('00+ Deville) the DIM does the A/D conversion, then the signal is sent to the HU using the data line. The HU forward the signal to the RIM/AMP for the BOSE cars, this signal is used by the HU just to actuate the display.

    Follow this thread to find out in details about coverting from base to BOSE.

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