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Why no AWD option on ATS-V

11K views 40 replies 19 participants last post by  Wireboltman 
#1 ·
I visited my Caddy dealer yesterday for my recall and asked several sales people why no AWD on ATS-V. Did not get a satisfactory answer. I know it adds weight but I think it would improved performance. What are your thoughts ?
 
#2 ·
IMO, i know they get a lot of their research from real life application on the track in the PWC and the research and innovation is not there to implement a performance AWD vehicle. I think the ATS/CTS's have AWD just to expand their market for potential buyers in areas where poor conditions are common. There is a reason why most performance vehicles out there are RWD and I would assume a finely tuned, properly designed and properly driven RWD can easily outperform a more forgiving AWD.

And I am guessing that anyone out there who can afford an ATS-V can also afford another daily driver for poor driving conditions.
 
#4 ·
Added weight and in the dry, past the initial acceleration from a start very little benefit. Not a big enough market to offer both versions.

Notice magazine comparison tests almost always take the RWD version of the ATS to compare to the RWD 335 when both have an AWD versions available.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Same question I asked over on the ATS-V side of this forum:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-ats-v-series-forum/771057-if-they-offered-awd.html

I'm not buying the theory that there is such a limited market for a performance AWD.
If that's the case then couldn't we say the same thing about the regular ATS AWD? Yet in this area you would have to look pretty long and hard to find a non-AWD ATS on a dealer lot. And if you do find one it's been sitting there a long time.

I think Cadillac would sell quite a few ATS-V's to those of us in the Northeast whereas I don't even consider it an option in RWD because it would be impractical. You guys can tell me all day long that the car would be fine with a set of snow tires, etc, but there isn't a snow tire around that would make it handle winter as well as AWD.
 
#11 ·
Ahhh, he almost got me. I very nearly started my half of the awd vs rwd war. The war where both sides know they have the only correct answer, and where neither side can ever see the merits of the opposing side.
Not this time though, I am trying to grow up.
Let's just assume that (right or wrong), the Lead Engineer for the ATS-V knows why he did not offer an awd option. So there... Na na na boo boo!
I guess I will never pass the emotional age of 8 years old :(
 
#14 ·
Depends on what fun is. Sure, I've had fun driving wherever I wanted in an AWD Forester XT.

Yet, I had just as much fun finding empty parking lots or empty roads and learning what my V could do and fine tuning my car control. It's how I learned as a kid and it served me well.

And unless you live in northern Canada, there are very few places you actually need snow tires more than 10-12 days a year. My Town Car with all seasons does just fine...
 
#15 ·
I would have been a lot more interested in an ATS-V with an AWD option. I too had a V2 CTS-V, but I wouldn't exactly call it excellent in all weather conditions. I finally had enough white knuckle rides where I had to travel over 100 miles in adverse weather. It's strange that they didn't see any benefit of awd, Mercedes is going all awd with their AMG cars....
 
#16 ·
Mercedes is also from a country that is a little more north of us that sees more varied weather...European Brands in general give more emphasis to foul weather driving....heck my mom drove a Volvo 240 that was designed to have it's heater on all the time unless the A/C was on...and they don't do this anymore but Mercedes used to louver all their tail lenses to better perform in the snow unless you had bad driving winds more often than not the recessed portion of the lens was free of snow....also mercedes for a very long time was more interested in their cars being more durable and safe than hooligan...so with this in the Euro mindset it's not surprising Mercedes offers more AWD cars
 
#28 ·
What I will say is this: Cadillac is undoubtedly losing out on sales to its competitors by not offering AWD. Pros, cons, opinions aside. For not offering an E550/550i equivalent with AWD, losing out on PLENTY of sales. Here in NYC, not nearly a place with the amount of snow in MI or MA, good luck finding a 3, 5, 7series or anything in between, any Mercedes model, Cadillac, not optioned with AWD. Not arguing one better than the other, just that nobody buys the RWD models. Let's put it this way, if Cadillac offered the V in AWD, 1. They'd sell more Vs. 2. They'd sell more AWD Vs in the snow belt than RWD.

Personally, I love RWD. That's my opinion.
 
#29 ·
Maybe, maybe not....European Marques have historically placed a higher emphasis on foul weather which is logical when you consider that generally they live a little more north than a lot of us and lack the Pacific Ocean as a major regulating factor weather wise......secondly we can't expect every manufacturer to make every product to accommodate our personal needs it is after all our own choice to live where we choose and there are compromises in each of these decisions....I've given up seasons and snow mobiles so that I can live in year round moderate weather that happens to accommodate the worlds fun cars.....our northern friends get to make snow men but have to live with narrowed auto choices or have to make other accommodations like snow tires or even an alternate car......what I'm sure of is if there's money to be grabbed large companies will reach out and grab it....it seems to me that our northern friends are likely benefitting from the Euro brands just bringing over what they already have to make at home where as other makes that don't have to make these types of cars have a higher hurdle
 
#30 ·
There's really no maybe about it. They would sell more AWD v series cars in the snow belt than they would RWD cars. Without a doubt that's the case here in NYC. You simply don't see RWD versions of cars that offer AWD here. I know it's more of a performance oriented car but the same goes for the E63.

Now I know we can't expect every manufacturer to make everything. I'm not asking them to serve me personally. I'm saying that for their (GM) own good, they should play in as many segments as possible. For example, there should be an AWD CTS v sport available or at least here in NYC, it simply won't be considered when being cross shopped with the e550 and 550i.

Yes we choose where we live and millions of people in the US call a place with snow in the winter their home and wouldn't have it any other way. GM knows this. Don't think for one second that if they had the choice they wouldn't be in every single segment and offer every drivetrain and engine choice in those segments possible to appeal to as broad of a customer base as possible. It takes time and money to get there. And that's what you allude to in your last statement.
 
#31 ·
yes there is a definite maybe it's all about money...the fact is Trucks and SUV's rule the roost at GM and is the area that Domestic Marques are the leaders...and the imports have woken up to this, which is why we now have absurdities like Porsche making them now doubling their sales, chief among the absurd are the upcoming Bently Bentayga SUV and Lamborghini Urus SUV....in this context GM has the snowy placed covered to their hearts content with these high margin products. they also have Texas which is probably the biggest truck market in the world, it's stunning how much gets sold there...then you have California for everything else, you can pretty much name any Brand car and the biggest dealer in the world for that brand is in Los Angeles or Orange County an hour south of Los Angeles....the Texas and California markets are like their own countries they're so big and they have another thing in common not much snow...my point is when it comes to niche products like ultra high performance sedans i suspect GM has enough easy territories to make their sales targets and between hearing pleas from the frozen parts of the country and producing a niche of a niche (would that be called a sub-niche?)...hearing the pleas might be the lesser of two evils
 
#36 ·
Your reading skills are sadly lacking, at best... Sign of the times, I guess.
I agreed with you at the beginning of this, that the 2 areas are apples and oranges.
Other than that, what I said stands.
Bottom line, the V cannot drive in the snow with 5" of clearance. Period.
I also ended my last comment saying I was glad you can get around in the winter.
I guess I should have said your "winter."
Insert pair of rolling eyeballs, here... :blush:
 
#37 ·
Your reading skills are sadly lacking, at best... Sign of the times, I guess.
I agreed with you at the beginning of this, that the 2 areas are apples and oranges.
Other than that, what I said stands.
Bottom line, the V cannot drive in the snow with 5" of clearance. Period.
I also ended my last comment saying I was glad you can get around in the winter.
I guess I should have said your "winter."
Insert pair of rolling eyeballs, here... :blush:
Nope, I went back and read everything. You discredited my statement of how quickly our snow is removed and you mocked my claims of the V in a snowy MA winter. You started guessing about temps and slush and promptly went off the rails of reasoning. You obviously don't know New England winters and you guessed. And wrongly.

----------

That being said, I would agree about clearance if that were an issue. But, for us, it isn't. Good night.
 
#40 ·
And we also have winters where we don't see 32+ for weeks. And then we have winters where we do. So?

Bottom line is your winters are not the rest of ours. And, for us, driving the V in winter us possible, and encouraged.

And just because you can look up on Weatherbug doesn't mean you know our winters. It obviously doesn't or else you wouldn't still be sticking your foot in your mouth. See, winters in New England are fun. You can still get around, yet have a blast doing things in your V, or whatever, that you can't do in the summer. It's a great balance that makes it the best place to live for weather.
 
#41 ·
Geez, I didn't even think to use Weatherbug :)

I did, however, use the NOAA, US Climate Data, your local information, Wikipedia, and so on.

The snow melts not long after it falls out there, and so there never is much snow cover on the ground.

Enjoy your area.
It's certainly much more versatile than mine and that's why, for the last 5 years, I live in CA for the winter and go home at the end of May. There's still snow in the woods, then, but it's generally gone everywhere else.
Although the old timers say it can snow any time before the 4th or any time after. And it has.
I don't do any winter sports anymore and I worked outside in the winter more times than I can count working construction for 36 years. Pretty brutal, at times.
I have no reason to be cold for 6-7 months any more.
 
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