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Cadillac ATS-V Series Forum Discussion, Just have a hunch in Cadillac V-Series Forums; Originally Posted by bruff1977 I think the engineers and developers have pushed back the ATS-V release because they are taking ...
  1. #16
    JCPerformance is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Just have a hunch

    Quote Originally Posted by bruff1977 View Post
    I think the engineers and developers have pushed back the ATS-V release because they are taking a 'no holds barred' approach. I require THE BEST ATS-V available... Not a lot of options. No need for a 'plus' model. This car should and hopefully will be of epic proportion, like the Z06 and the Z28. It should be the greatest car on the Alpha chassis.
    Yes but the million dollar question is: WHEN??

  2. #17
    ATSwannabe is online now Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Just have a hunch

    Quote Originally Posted by bruff1977 View Post
    I think the engineers and developers have pushed back the ATS-V release because they are taking a 'no holds barred' approach. I require THE BEST ATS-V available... Not a lot of options. No need for a 'plus' model. This car should and hopefully will be of epic proportion, like the Z06 and the Z28. It should be the greatest car on the Alpha chassis.
    I understand your position on an all out ATS V,but I don't think it is a viable way to go for cadillac for the following reasons
    Cadillacs position on introducing the ATS was to be primarily a BMW 3 series beater.They made the mark on handling,but missed the mark on performance and gas mileage.The 328 out performs the 2.0 turbo and gets much better gas mileage.The BMW 335I outperforms the 3.6 ATS by a wide margin and also gets better gas mileage.I believe Cadillac has to bring the standard ATS drivetrains up to BMW levels Before bulding an all out performance ATS V.They need an ATS(Vsport) type upgrade before an all out ATS V.The all out V would be a low volume seller ,and would do nothing for the mainstays of the ATS line.The present 3.6 and 6 speed auto are old and outdated and not nearley as good as the BMW offerings.

  3. #18
    M5eater's Avatar
    M5eater is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Just have a hunch

    Quote Originally Posted by ATSwannabe View Post
    I understand your position on an all out ATS V,but I don't think it is a viable way to go for cadillac for the following reasons
    Cadillacs position on introducing the ATS was to be primarily a BMW 3 series beater.They made the mark on handling,but missed the mark on performance and gas mileage.The 328 out performs the 2.0 turbo and gets much better gas mileage.The BMW 335I outperforms the 3.6 ATS by a wide margin and also gets better gas mileage.I believe Cadillac has to bring the standard ATS drivetrains up to BMW levels Before bulding an all out performance ATS V.They need an ATS(Vsport) type upgrade before an all out ATS V.The all out V would be a low volume seller ,and would do nothing for the mainstays of the ATS line.The present 3.6 and 6 speed auto are old and outdated and not nearley as good as the BMW offerings.
    Most of the ATS's problems can be traced back to the restructure.

    the 2.0T/3.6L get worse fuel economy either because they don't have comparable transmissions(GM's 8 speeds were put on hold) or are carry-over's from a mature engine platform. the LFX is really very close to the LLT which has been in production since 2008, and the LLT is based of course on the LY7 which goes back to 2004.

    The new generation of powertrains are acutally comparable or better than BMW's offerings, like the LTG for example.

    I think what also happened is that the cost of the new platform such as this had to be offset somewhere, and using more pedestrian powertrains like this was a way to save money. BMW doesn't have such costs, so they can engineer more premium powertrains like the N55 and the N20. To be fair, the LTG and LFX are not horrible, and it could be worse; like Lexus that is using 100% carry over V6 range engines.

  4. #19
    Avery323 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Just have a hunch

    Should we next put our hopes on Beijing?! lol. KIDDING.

    I'd be surprised if we see something at all this year quite frankly. Sure, they could do an Escalade-esque special launch but why do that when they've had the potential for millions of eyeballs and the world's journalists ready to spread the world?

    LA? Seems like that's the CTS-V launch. And I think Cadillac knows full well that they couldn't do 2 V's at once. Perhaps they're waiting for MCE in calendar 2015 and do a January 2015 Detroit Auto Show reveal/launch. Sigh. Oh well.

  5. #20
    ATSwannabe is online now Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Just have a hunch

    Quote Originally Posted by M5eater View Post
    Most of the ATS's problems can be traced back to the restructure.

    the 2.0T/3.6L get worse fuel economy either because they don't have comparable transmissions(GM's 8 speeds were put on hold) or are carry-over's from a mature engine platform. the LFX is really very close to the LLT which has been in production since 2008, and the LLT is based of course on the LY7 which goes back to 2004.

    The new generation of powertrains are acutally comparable or better than BMW's offerings, like the LTG for example.

    I think what also happened is that the cost of the new platform such as this had to be offset somewhere, and using more pedestrian powertrains like this was a way to save money. BMW doesn't have such costs, so they can engineer more premium powertrains like the N55 and the N20. To be fair, the LTG and LFX are not horrible, and it could be worse; like Lexus that is using 100% carry over V6 range engines.
    The LTG is not a bad engine but the BMW n20 in the 328 although only rated at 240 hp on average has better acceleration times and better gas mileage in the same weight car.Some of the advantage is the 8 speed trans but that is not the entire reason.

  6. #21
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    Re: Just have a hunch

    Quote Originally Posted by ATSwannabe View Post
    The LTG is not a bad engine but the BMW n20 in the 328 although only rated at 240 hp on average has better acceleration times and better gas mileage in the same weight car.Some of the advantage is the 8 speed trans but that is not the entire reason.
    it's ~ 95% of the reason, and excellent traction management.


    http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/news/...i-65-1-roa0813

    the 8speed BMW auto and 6 speed manual have longer ratios than the ATS< requiring only 1 1-2 shift where the ATS need's 3rd gear to reach 60.

  7. #22
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    I feel like they are waiting for some of the competition to show their cards, then they will prob make a final decision on power plant, and release accordingly. I just know I want one now! Put the 3.6tt and call it a day

  8. #23
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    Re: Just have a hunch

    Quote Originally Posted by M5eater View Post
    it's ~ 95% of the reason, and excellent traction management.


    http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/news/...i-65-1-roa0813

    the 8speed BMW auto and 6 speed manual have longer ratios than the ATS< requiring only 1 1-2 shift where the ATS need's 3rd gear to reach 60.
    I based my conclusions on the fact that on average the magazine tests on the 328/2.0 turbo show about a 2 mph advantage in the 1/4 to the 328.This advantage is due to power rather than trasmission.MPH at the end of a 1/4 is a good indication of engine power.You can start in 2nd or 3rd gear and have a much slower et,but still show the same mph at the 1/4 mark.

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    Re: Just have a hunch

    Now that all of us patiently waiting for the ATS V introduction are bitterly disappointed again what next?If we look at the intro for the ATS & the 2014 CTS we can see that there was plenty of info available before they were introduced,and it was pretty much correct.The recent total silence by Cadillac on the ATS V leads me to believe that they don't know what to do.I think they are trying to evaluate the lack of sales on the CTS and come up with a new price that won't require huge discounts to sell them.Until they solve this problem it will be very difficult to price the ATS V.In the meantime I will bide my time and keep looking elseware for a replacement for my 550I.

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    Re: Just have a hunch

    Quote Originally Posted by ATSwannabe View Post
    Now that all of us patiently waiting for the ATS V introduction are bitterly disappointed again what next?If we look at the intro for the ATS & the 2014 CTS we can see that there was plenty of info available before they were introduced,and it was pretty much correct.The recent total silence by Cadillac on the ATS V leads me to believe that they don't know what to do.I think they are trying to evaluate the lack of sales on the CTS and come up with a new price that won't require huge discounts to sell them.Until they solve this problem it will be very difficult to price the ATS V.In the meantime I will bide my time and keep looking elseware for a replacement for my 550I.
    For the ATS and CTS we knew a bit more than this yes, but if traditional 'V' releases are to be considered, we basically knew nothing at all right up until they were made public.

    I think what we can assume, is these very open vertical V shapped grilles are what we will see on production cars. I've heard people assume they're just 'test' grille's, but that's not how product engineering works for aerodynamics.

    If you look @ the 09 V spy photos, it was a pretty accurate representation of the final production unit;




  11. #26
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    Re: Just have a hunch

    Quote Originally Posted by M5eater View Post
    For the ATS and CTS we knew a bit more than this yes, but if traditional 'V' releases are to be considered, we basically knew nothing at all right up until they were made public.

    I think what we can assume, is these very open vertical V shapped grilles are what we will see on production cars. I've heard people assume they're just 'test' grille's, but that's not how product engineering works for aerodynamics.

    If you look @ the 09 V spy photos, it was a pretty accurate representation of the final production unit;



    I hope your right ,but is hard to feel encouraged.

  12. #27
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Just have a hunch

    Well they had the new escalade, cts, ats, srx, xts, a cts-v coupe. Basically their lineup. And they had the new ats coupe on a turntable, pretty nice. And an Elmiraj was roped off. Beauty. That was Cadillac.

    I didn't get to sit in the escalade because there were a bunch of 8 year olds considering one so they had to get their seat time in and I wasn't waiting.

    There were also plenty of pre-teens strongly considering the maseratis as their next purchase. I made it into those cars though. So nice.

    That's the most annoying part of it. But I guess it's good to see youngsters excited about cars.
    M5eater likes this.

  13. #28
    bruff1977 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    It would be literally mind blowing if the ATS-V and CTS-V were introduced at a maximum of two auto shows apart. My guess is (now) 2014 Los Angeles and 2015 Detroit. Both as 2016 models.

  14. #29
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Just have a hunch

    There's still Beijing. Now wouldn't that be something?

  15. #30
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    Re: Just have a hunch

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    Well they had the new escalade, cts, ats, srx, xts, a cts-v coupe. Basically their lineup. And they had the new ats coupe on a turntable, pretty nice. And an Elmiraj was roped off. Beauty. That was Cadillac.

    I didn't get to sit in the escalade because there were a bunch of 8 year olds considering one so they had to get their seat time in and I wasn't waiting.

    There were also plenty of pre-teens strongly considering the maseratis as their next purchase. I made it into those cars though. So nice.

    That's the most annoying part of it. But I guess it's good to see youngsters excited about cars.
    the average 8 year old now has a mean income of over 200K per household?

    What a strange world we live in.
    Guy.Seminerio likes this.

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