ATS V Introduction Date
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Cadillac ATS-V Series Forum Discussion, ATS V Introduction Date in Cadillac V-Series Forums; It appears that if the ATS V is not introduced at the New York Auto show it will not be ...
  1. #1
    ATSwannabe is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    ATS V Introduction Date

    It appears that if the ATS V is not introduced at the New York Auto show it will not be available to order for this year.For some reason it appears that Cadillac is postponing the V.I have some
    thoughts on why the delay.
    1-Sales of the CTS are well below expectations.Dealers in my area are offering discounts of more
    than 5K on their websites without even haggeling.It looks like Cadillac has overpriced the CTS.
    2-Because of the discounts being offered on the CTS,the ATS is also being discounted to maintain a differece between the models.I believe that Cadillac doesn't want to introduce the ATS V at this time because of the downward price pressure.
    I think Cadillac made a marketing mistake by offering the Vsport drivetrain in the CTS first.It
    should have offered the Vsport drivetrain in the ATS because it appeals to the younger more
    sport & performance minded buyers than the CTS buyers who tend more towards luxury.

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    Hoosier Daddy's Avatar
    Hoosier Daddy is online now Moderator
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    Re: ATS V Introduction Date

    I agree with much of what you say. And I think its a mistake for Cadillac to focus on a new CTS-V as its "performance" model. It made sense for the last gen CTS because then the CTS was the smallest, lightest stiffest RWD model Cadillac made. That's not the case anymore. There is nothing wrong with having a CTS equivalent of an M5 or 6 but the equivalent of an M3 has a much bigger sales and total profit potential and would be the first choice for the weekend warrior and have a higher conquest rate because more M3 buyers would be swayed by actual performance than the M5/M6 crowd who care more about the brand prestige.

    Cadillac has a great opportunity with the North America DTM series coming here in 2015. DTM is a fantastic racing series and should be much more popular here than the series the CTS-Vs race in now. Plus the DTM series currently is exclusively the ATS class Audi, Mercedes and BMW. Beating them on the track is much better for sales and reputation than beating the hodgepodge of cars the CTS-Vs race against now that virtually nobody cross shops.
    70eldo, Guy.Seminerio and exbagboy like this.

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    Guy.Seminerio is online now Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: ATS V Introduction Date

    Excellent post Hoosier. Good observation of the importance of the ats-v vs the cts-v.

    To be honest.. It is so damn late in the ATSs run and no V yet. 1 year delay for the V has been the trend historically.

    "It appears that if the ATS V is not introduced at the New York Auto show it will not be available to order for this year."

    Did you read this somewhere wannabe? You also mentioned that they delayed the ats-v? Another reason could be bmw released the m3 and GM realized they we're beat.

    I was counting on seeing the atsv in ny next month. Damn. Hope it shows up.

  5. #4
    ATSwannabe is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: ATS V Introduction Date

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    Excellent post Hoosier. Good observation of the importance of the ats-v vs the cts-v.

    To be honest.. It is so damn late in the ATSs run and no V yet. 1 year delay for the V has been the trend historically.

    "It appears that if the ATS V is not introduced at the New York Auto show it will not be available to order for this year."

    Did you read this somewhere wannabe? You also mentioned that they delayed the ats-v? Another reason could be bmw released the m3 and GM realized they we're beat.

    I was counting on seeing the atsv in ny next month. Damn. Hope it shows up.
    I did't read it anywhere but I tested a CTS Vsport and priced it out at a Dealer and the manager told me that Cadillac may even scrap the idea of a ATS V.He also said if it was introduced it probably would be next year or later due to the introduction of the ATS Coupe.
    I was really impressed with the CTS Vsport.The ride & performance is great,and you can really get a great deal on price.I just don't want that big of a car.The ATS size is exactly what I am looking for.I originaly tested an ATS and did not like the engine & trans combination in the V6.The Vsport driveline is exactly what I am looking for but I want it in tha ATS.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    I agree with much of what you say. And I think its a mistake for Cadillac to focus on a new CTS-V as its "performance" model. It made sense for the last gen CTS because then the CTS was the smallest, lightest stiffest RWD model Cadillac made. That's not the case anymore. There is nothing wrong with having a CTS equivalent of an M5 or 6 but the equivalent of an M3 has a much bigger sales and total profit potential and would be the first choice for the weekend warrior and have a higher conquest rate because more M3 buyers would be swayed by actual performance than the M5/M6 crowd who care more about the brand prestige.

    Cadillac has a great opportunity with the North America DTM series coming here in 2015. DTM is a fantastic racing series and should be much more popular here than the series the CTS-Vs race in now. Plus the DTM series currently is exclusively the ATS class Audi, Mercedes and BMW. Beating them on the track is much better for sales and reputation than beating the hodgepodge of cars they race against now that virtually nobody cross shops.
    Excellent points Hoosier.Although I am not particurly interested in the racing aspects of the equation,many people are and have been waiting patiently for the ATS V.It would't be so bad except that for the past year we have been seeing all kinds of articals on test siteings, and that it might be introduced in the end of 2013 ,and then maybe the spring of 2014,and then the fall of 2014,and now maybe not at all or 2015.I would really like to buy American ,but they just don't have a good grasp of certain markets.

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    roadpie4u is online now Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: ATS V Introduction Date

    Quote Originally Posted by ATSwannabe View Post
    I did't read it anywhere but I tested a CTS Vsport and priced it out at a Dealer and the manager told me that Cadillac may even scrap the idea of a ATS V.He also said if it was introduced it probably would be next year or later due to the introduction of the ATS Coupe.
    Even GM's biggest dealers haven't been told anything and have been kept in the dark (intentionally) about new product until it's on their doorstep. GM is trying to keep leaks down as these segments are so competitive, and their historically leaky dealer network is largely to blame. That and you'll end up with the telephone game where speculation occurs and the details change and someone eventually quotes something and it goes to press being entirely wrong. Your dealer may be interpreting "no news" as "bad news" because this is different than historical trends - but I can guarantee you that some of GM's biggest dealers have been saying "The ATS-V is coming and we've been told it is so" for over a year now, but in reality neither know what's going on anymore. This is a good thing as it lets GM save as much time as possible for product changes and scope creep.

    For example, GM has developed Carbon bodywork for the ATS, along with Carbon brakes. They've stuffed an LT1 under the hood. And a TTV6. And I'd wager even an LS7 as the engine bay and cooling package was designed to handle it. GM is going to test hundreds of potential configurations in design studies and internal reviews, then build a bunch of test mules that get constantly messed with and altered and tested till they narrow it down to a couple configurations. But before BMW revealed the M3/M4 twins, GM didn't know how far BMW would take it and what components needed to appear on the ATS-V. GM needs the ATS-V to appear after the M3 because the ATS came out before the new 3 series and that put them one leg off. They need to be second with the -V so they can make sure they take it blow for blow or better.
    Quote Originally Posted by ATSwannabe View Post
    1-Sales of the CTS are well below expectations.Dealers in my area are offering discounts of more
    than 5K on their websites without even haggeling.It looks like Cadillac has overpriced the CTS.
    The problem is dealers demand incentives because they want to see the same sales numbers as they saw before with earlier CTS models. We can't call the CTS a sales flop or that it's selling beneath expectations yet (first year of an effectively new model that goes WAY upmarket compared to the last one). The problem is by going upmarket with price, the sales WILL go down, and dealers don't want to accept that. So they complain and complain for incentives and they get them - which actually hurts them in the long run, but dealers don't have the best track record with what is best for the brand - just what is best for their dollars in and dollars out.

    Lets not forget, technically the Chevy SSR and Pontiac Aztec were sales success stories. They didn't need to move many to be profitable and they moved more than what corporate expected. As long as GM as a corporation moves enough vehicles to remain profitable and not lose money on development, its technically a success - and GM isn't about to tell anyone outside the company how many CTS's they need to move of what trims to be profitable, so all we can do is speculate.
    Quote Originally Posted by ATSwannabe View Post
    2-Because of the discounts being offered on the CTS,the ATS is also being discounted to maintain a differece between the models.I believe that Cadillac doesn't want to introduce the ATS V at this time because of the downward price pressure.
    Same problem - discounts don't help - but you're right and wrong on the ATS-V price problem. Yes, a super high-end ATS-V would be "sticker shock" by comparison - but in reality anyone interested in an ATS-V (or CTS-V, or CTS VSport) realistically won't be dissuaded by incentives on the lesser trims. Historically when GM discounted the lower trim Camaros, CTS's and Corvettes, the top tier models didn't suffer from it that much. Did 3k rebates on a Camaro V6 hurt the SS or the ZL1? Nope. Is it an issue? Yes. Is it bad enough to delay or cancel product launch? Absolutely not. The ATS-V will move enough additional showroom traffic to increase sales on lower-trim models that will make up the difference.

    ---

    In reality there are good points made here, but it is all speculation. Yes, historically the CTS-V was a year after CTS launch - but the CTS Coupe was also shown after that. At this point the order is switched for the ATS - that has nothing to do with meaning the ATS-V is a goner or at some way at risk. Do I think it should appear at NYC? Of course. Could Cadillac still show it? Yes, they have mules that are close enough to production to reveal for static display. There's nothing saying they will or wont, and it is in there best interest to show a new car at every new show and they know it.

    The problem is the upcoming LA Auto Show is more focused on luxury and glamour, which is more fitting for the CTS reveals. The 6th gen Camaro will be a Detroit Launch - which leaves NYC...

    Was revealing the ATS Coupe before the ATS-V a good decision? We won't know for a few years - likely till the 2nd gen ATS comes out and we have a full model generation of sales figures. Will that same order play out with the CTS 3g? Will a CTS Coupe go public before a CTS-V? Dunno.

    Will the DTM series have any impact on the market? Dunno.

    Regardless, we CAN say one thing for certain. If GM cancels the ATS-V entirely, it's BAD news for the brand as a whole, and it's a sign they aren't going to be serious about entering Europe. If they hold back on an ATS-V, then an ATS Wagon is out of the question - and an ATS Wagon is required if they want to really be a contender in Europe.

    I've been saying for months GM needs a reveal at every major auto show now. Between the ATS, CTS, XTS, and Omega - Coupes, Sedans, VSports, and -V... they need to constantly show something new or they risk losing momentum and constant showroom traffic. They have enough models and trims to be able to do it, they just need to commit to Cadillac and not back down.
    M5eater likes this.

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    ATSwannabe is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: ATS V Introduction Date

    roadpie has a lot of useful info,but the bottom line remains that if the ATS V is not introduced at the NY Auto show it is probably dead for this calender year.I am at the point that I am unwilling to wait another year,especially since there is no guarantee that it will be introduced next year.

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    roadpie4u is online now Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: ATS V Introduction Date

    Quote Originally Posted by ATSwannabe View Post
    roadpie has a lot of useful info,but the bottom line remains that if the ATS V is not introduced at the NY Auto show it is probably dead for this calender year.I am at the point that I am unwilling to wait another year,especially since there is no guarantee that it will be introduced next year.
    Even if it DOES appear in NYC, it could come as a "late 2015" model year or "early 2016", which is rubbish. Personally I want an ATS Wagon with a stick, so I'm going to be waiting a long time if ever.

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    Re: ATS V Introduction Date

    It is far overdue. Agree that they've been sitting too long on their hands. My guess is still for New York. ATS needs a shot in the arm. Coupe will do well but they need the firepower of a V. What I DO think is happening is that Cadillac has a huge cluster now right at the 70k price point -- CTS Vsport, XTS Vsport and now presumably the ATS-V will be right around 70. V cars tend to be about 15-20 more than the top of the line for that range, so if ATS currently tops out at around 52k, then it tracks that ATS-V will come in around 70 - 72k. Now, that said, Cadillac could do a Vsport for ATS and put that at 60k -- something that isn't being served by people who want more performance for ATS and are not yet ready for the big grown up CTS.

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    Re: ATS V Introduction Date

    CTS-V Sport is 60k right now, 60k for an ATS-V sport doesn't make much sense either. I am waiting on a ATS V or V sport, something with a manual and more than the 2.0T. The lack of a manual on the CTS-V sport sucks or a I would seriously consider it.

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    Guy.Seminerio is online now Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: ATS V Introduction Date

    Ats wannabe.. Your dealer told you that because he'd rather you buy a car from him now than walk out of his dealer empty handed because you're waiting on a future product.

    He's a salesman. He has no idea what's coming out when and he just wants to sell you a car.

    I still say ats-v NY.

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    ATSwannabe is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: ATS V Introduction Date

    Quote Originally Posted by roadpie4u View Post
    Even if it DOES appear in NYC, it could come as a "late 2015" model year or "early 2016", which is rubbish. Personally I want an ATS Wagon with a stick, so I'm going to be waiting a long time if ever.
    I feel for you roadpie.I thought that I was a little impatient for the ats v to be introduced,but you must believe in divine intervention for an ats wagon with a stick.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    Ats wannabe.. Your dealer told you that because he'd rather you buy a car from him now than walk out of his dealer empty handed because you're waiting on a future product.

    He's a salesman. He has no idea what's coming out when and he just wants to sell you a car.

    I still say ats-v NY.
    I always take what a salesman tells me with a grain of salt.however he did say that the ats coupe would come out first. I don't think they will introduce both in NY.
    .

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    Guy.Seminerio is online now Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: ATS V Introduction Date

    You mean this ats coupe that was already revealed at the Detroit auto show?

    http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...revealed-video

    ATS-V NY.

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    ATSwannabe is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: ATS V Introduction Date

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    You mean this ats coupe that was already revealed at the Detroit auto show?

    http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...revealed-video

    ATS-V NY.
    Sorry I stated that incorrectly.Although the coupe was introduced in Detroit,it goes on sale in september.

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    Guy.Seminerio is online now Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: ATS V Introduction Date

    Quote Originally Posted by ATSwannabe View Post
    Sorry I stated that incorrectly.Although the coupe was introduced in Detroit,it goes on sale in september.
    Haha no biggie. I still got my hopes up for NY. I'll take pics.

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    Re: ATS V Introduction Date

    Regardless, we CAN say one thing for certain. If GM cancels the ATS-V entirely, it's BAD news for the brand as a whole, and it's a sign they aren't going to be serious about entering Europe. If they hold back on an ATS-V, then an ATS Wagon is out of the question - and an ATS Wagon is required if they want to really be a contender in Europe.
    They need a lot of things to be serious in Europe, more than what's realistic with this generation of ATS.

    They need the 2.5L NA, they need more manual options, they need a powertrain under the 2.5L honestly, they need lower spec'd vehicles, they need a diesel, I could go on, and on.

    The 1st generation ATS I think, will be a testing of the waters for cadillac in Europe and to show people there that they can make great cars, maybe not something Europeans would actually buy because frankly the average BMW or Mercedes sale is a cheaper, more gas frugal car with fewer features(ie easier to afford) than the based model 2.5L here, and with import taxes it just can't compete.

    but

    It will get people talking, that, instead of failed rebadged crap like the BLS, Cadillac makes entertaining models again.

    roadpie has a lot of useful info,but the bottom line remains that if the ATS V is not introduced at the NY Auto show it is probably dead for this calender year.I am at the point that I am unwilling to wait another year,especially since there is no guarantee that it will be introduced next year.
    What might strike your fancy if not the ATS-V? I'm partial to the F80 myself, but I think I'll manage to restrain myself, I'm certain there will be market adjustments to them and I'm simply not willing to pay over invoice.

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