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Cadillac ATS-V Series Forum Discussion, Motor Trend says ATS-V to get 425 hp TTV6 in Cadillac V-Series Forums; Originally Posted by Koooop It's simple. V6 is For The Woman. Hope that helps you understand. Guess you don't know ...
  1. #16
    BeltlessBoost is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Motor Trend says ATS-V to get 425 hp TTV6

    Quote Originally Posted by Koooop View Post
    It's simple.

    V6 is For The Woman.

    Hope that helps you understand.
    Guess you don't know what a grand national is huh? That V6 turbo car beat out all the V8s. If you want a V8, get a CTS-V.

  2. #17
    rand49er's Avatar
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    Re: Motor Trend says ATS-V to get 425 hp TTV6

    Quote Originally Posted by BeltlessBoost View Post
    Guess you don't know what a grand national is huh? That V6 turbo car beat out all the V8s. If you want a V8, get a CTS-V.
    The V8s back in '86/'87, though, were pretty anemic, but your point is well taken. Pump enough A/F into fewer cylinders, and who cares there's two missing.

    I'm thinking GM is having giggle fits with this whole thing. I'm thinking that they're really going to put the TTV6 in the ATS-V, underrated or not, and it's going to be competitive. I also think they're going to come out with some crazy fast, limited production car either in CTS-V form or ATS-V form or both ... some "black" thing or some "+" thing. Probably in '16 or '17. And it's gonna have "a plus" price tag to match.
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  3. #18
    Koooop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeltlessBoost
    Guess you don't know what a grand national is huh? That V6 turbo car beat out all the V8s. If you want a V8, get a CTS-V.
    Sure, but my wife would rather have a GNX.

    There is no substitute for a V8 with a high lift cam. It's not about what's faster, it's about the sound and the raw feel. You obviously don't understand the allure of V8's, let alone a V8 with lots of carburetors and a bunch of cams.

    I had a V1, drove the poo out of it for 75,000 miles. I didn't buy a V2 because I prefer a normally aspirated V8.

  4. #19
    BeltlessBoost is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Motor Trend says ATS-V to get 425 hp TTV6

    I've had dozens a V8s, I love the sound but ever since being in a boosted car, there's nothing like it to me. It's all personal opinion. I just don't like people bashing this new motor when the car isn't even out yet. It's already shown it has balls in the heavier CTS. As far as GM is concerned, to pull buyers away from the M3, S4 etc, it needs to have this motor over a NA V8. It all comes down to sales, without them, we wouldn't even be talking about these cars, they wouldn't exist.

  5. #20
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Motor Trend says ATS-V to get 425 hp TTV6

    I've said this before and I'll say it again. V series should have exclusive engines in the Cadillac lineup. I don't think it's ok for one Cadillac to use an engine in the vsport and another one to use that same engine in the v. To me that takes away from the exclusivity of v series cars. It tells everyone that the ats-v has a rather "civilian" engine in it.

    Also, just because they're doing it, doesn't mean we have to. Put the v8 in it and catch the Germans with their d$&@s in their hands when it's more powerful, has better fuel economy, and is more lightweight.

  6. #21
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    Re: Motor Trend says ATS-V to get 425 hp TTV6

    Lots of V6 hate here. Anyone taken a look at what the GTRs are doing these days? I can't help but notice, that in the world of ultimate street car power, the GTRs are right there knocking on the TTV10 Lambos doors.

    If nobody here has driven a 3 series with the turbo V6, you really should. Its a lot of fun...
    Mike Litsch
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  7. #22
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    Re: Motor Trend says ATS-V to get 425 hp TTV6

    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloMike View Post
    Lots of V6 hate here. Anyone taken a look at what the GTRs are doing these days? I can't help but notice, that in the world of ultimate street car power, the GTRs are right there knocking on the TTV10 Lambos doors.

    If nobody here has driven a 3 series with the turbo V6, you really should. Its a lot of fun...
    I don't detect any "hate" here, only those that consider the V8 sound part of the high performance experience. Furthermore, there could be less weight and a lower center of gravity by using a n/a V8. Hopefully, there will be an ATS Vsport for the others.

    Jud
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  8. #23
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    Re: Motor Trend says ATS-V to get 425 hp TTV6

    I don't hate V6's, the 4.0 V6 in my wife's Minivan makes plenty of power. I don't even hate Forced Induction, my wife had a GLHS that had a cam, injectors, extra boost and more.

    I'm just not a buyer for a 6cyl most of the time. Every now and then I drop in on one though. I think the Vsport ATS with the Turbos will be an awesome car, but I probably won't own one.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloMike View Post
    Lots of V6 hate here. Anyone taken a look at what the GTRs are doing these days? I can't help but notice, that in the world of ultimate street car power, the GTRs are right there knocking on the TTV10 Lambos doors.

    If nobody here has driven a 3 series with the turbo V6, you really should. Its a lot of fun...
    I must've missed the TT V6 BMUU.

  9. #24
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    Re: Motor Trend says ATS-V to get 425 hp TTV6

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    I've said this before and I'll say it again. V series should have exclusive engines in the Cadillac lineup. I don't think it's ok for one Cadillac to use an engine in the vsport and another one to use that same engine in the v. To me that takes away from the exclusivity of v series cars. It tells everyone that the ats-v has a rather "civilian" engine in it.

    Also, just because they're doing it, doesn't mean we have to. Put the v8 in it and catch the Germans with their d$&@s in their hands when it's more powerful, has better fuel economy, and is more lightweight.
    But it's ok to use the vette motor in the Cadillac? That is contradicting, no? It seems all the high end "exclusive" GM models are boosted, it's the way things are going nowadays. The old loud lopey NA V8 days are over.

  10. #25
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    Re: Motor Trend says ATS-V to get 425 hp TTV6

    Quote Originally Posted by BeltlessBoost View Post
    ... The old loud lopey NA V8 days are over.
    Yup. As sad as that may be to some.

    Cylinder blocks, pistons, wrist pins, conn rods, and crankshafts are being made to resist much higher cylinder pressures than in the past, and jamming more air into smaller and/or fewer cylinders is the wave of the future ... sound quality be damned ... or possibly augmented by the interior sound system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeltlessBoost
    But it's ok to use the vette motor in the Cadillac? That is contradicting, no? It seems all the high end "exclusive" GM models are boosted, it's the way things are going nowadays. The old loud lopey NA V8 days are over.
    Tell that to GM, they may as well scrap the new LT1.

    Yes, loved the LS6 in my Caddy, there's an LS2 in my truck. In fact, the only car I own without a Vette motor is my Vette.

  12. #27
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Motor Trend says ATS-V to get 425 hp TTV6

    Quote Originally Posted by BeltlessBoost View Post
    But it's ok to use the vette motor in the Cadillac? That is contradicting, no? It seems all the high end "exclusive" GM models are boosted, it's the way things are going nowadays. The old loud lopey NA V8 days are over.
    Putting a corvette motor into a performance oriented Cadillac. At the end of the day you're not putting a "civilian" motor in there. It's a performance motor. So yes it's ok.

    I'd rather my ats-v have a corvette motor than a cts vsport motor.

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    Re: Motor Trend says ATS-V to get 425 hp TTV6

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Seminerio View Post
    Putting a corvette motor into a performance oriented Cadillac. At the end of the day you're not putting a "civilian" motor in there. It's a performance motor. So yes it's ok.
    So, your definition of a performance motor is a motor in a car that is considered a performance car rather than the motor's actual performance? Sure you don't have your chickens and eggs backwards? So I assume a ZR1 has a "performance" motor in your eyes. Lets see... 638 HP from 6.162 liters, A whopping 103.5 HP per liter. Not like the Cadillac 2.0 "civilian engines" with only 272 HP, which is a pathetic (give me a second here) uh 136 HP per liter. Wait........ Never mind.

    Its obvious that what really matters is total HP. All this NA vs. FI and V6 vs. V8 and performance vs. civilian is BS. Unless anyone really believes a V buyer might respond to getting his/her @$$ handed to him/her with, yeah, but my car sounds better and doesn't have a civilian motor. Are you (the editorial you) kidding me?
    RippyPartsDept likes this.

  14. #29
    Guy.Seminerio is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Motor Trend says ATS-V to get 425 hp TTV6

    Nope I was only saying that to contest the argument that putting a corvette motor into a v series car is taking away from its exclusivity.

    Putting a corvette engine into a v series Cadillac is a better move than putting the engine from a lesser (but bigger) Cadillac into a v series Cadillac. Going off this, if Cadillac made a 1 series competitor, the exclusive v series version should have the 3.6l n/a v6. I take it you would think this is ok.

    I appreciate the power density of the 2 turbo. As a matter of fact, the 4.4l v8 in my car was extremely power dense for 2006, the first year it was used. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter. By starting with such a small displacement, you're handicapping yourself right from the beginning.

    By going with 4.4l from the jump, GM couldn't compete against the 6.2 l amg engine and the 5.0 v10 in the m5. Sure, I can rant and rave about how power dense the engine is but at the end of the day, I'm outgunned.

    What matters is total horsepower. But there are so many other advantages of going v8.

    What seems to matter to you is following BMW every step of the way.

    If GM was able to get 638 hp out of 4.7l, giving it a 136hp/l, I would have no problem. Do it. As long as it's a v8.

  15. #30
    roadpie4u is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Motor Trend says ATS-V to get 425 hp TTV6

    Just so we're all clear - the LS9, LSA, LS7, LS3, LS2, LS1, new LT1 and new LT4 are all, every one of them, technically, "civilian" engines.

    GM justifies the production of these engine variants on an architecture designed for, paid for, developed for, and intended for - trucks. So when people say "GM sticks a Corvette engine into a truck!" the reality is they stick a truck engine into a Corvette by, basically, swapping the cam or the port on the head castings. It wasn't until the LS7/LS9/LSA that they got to push the budget further, but even then the overwhelming majority of the engine development was paid for by the truck development program.

    Is this bad? No. It's actually pretty hilarious and as history has shown since 1997, GM's V8's some extremely potent little powerplants capable of putting a lot of power down for not a lot of effort or cost - but we would do well to remember that the "civilian" comments are kinda silly.

    So lets put that aside, and just consider the reality of the situation. GM has long since decided if the upcoming "425-500" horsepower ATS will be either called the ATS-VSport or ATS-V. They know whatever it is whether it'll have a V6TT or V8. That's been set in stone for a while, and we just have to wait till we see it.

    What we DONT know, and likely even GM doesn't know, is the idea of a "Super V" for any vehicle, as a counter to the "AMG Black" sort of brand. Cadillac has a lot that has to go right before that comes out - people keep thinking 2016 or 2017 and any "Super V" would likely appear as the last hurrah of the 1st gen ATS and CTS (if ever). That's actually a LONG way off as far as Cadillac is concerned right now - a full ATS and CTS lineup, nwe crossovers and SUVs... Omega... and then and only then Cadillac has to decide if they can get away with asking $80k+ ATS or $100k for a CTS. If that seems insane... it is. We'll see how Cadillac does globally long before that happens.

    But wait. There's more.

    Before then Cadillac also has the launch of Camaro, a mass-market vehicle being launched from their assembly plant to deal with.

    Then there's the last rumor that's related to all this. If speculation and rumors are true and the C7 Z06 really is the limit of the chassis then the only way GM can make something faster is to go mid-rear engine layout - and GM has made it pretty clear they don't want to mess with that in a Corvette. If true that means an XLR/Cien halo vehicle for Cadillac based on a bespoke chassis - which would also add to the mix of things Cadillac has to (or could) do before 2016/2017.

    The next decade has a LOT of change happening for Cadillac as they attempt to assert themselves upmarket and potentially globally - and the ATS-V or ATS-VSport V6TT or V8 debacle we have now will end up being some footnote in this progress.

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