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ATS-V = V6TT, ATS-V Special Edition = V8 per Motor Trend Confirmed

32K views 109 replies 32 participants last post by  Tom Martin 
#1 ·
#34 · (Edited)
M5eater,

The VW GTI and Audi B5 are not comparable to the CTS-V, or even the upcoming ATS-V. You know why the tuner kids love those cars? Cheap speed, that's why. The B5 is 11-16 years old. Of course Cadillac doesn't have a comparable street scene -- the only thing it had then was the Catera. Also consider that Audi now is more upmarket than it was then. A new ATS-V with the LT1 would gather its own devoted following -- yes, overlapping with the rest of the Chevy smallblock marques, as if that's a bad thing. Of course the Caddy's following will be smaller and more well-heeled, not unlike the first-gen CTS-V following was... and over time, as the cars go second-hand and third-hand, it'll go from aspirational to affordable for the young turks who make street scenes vibrant and interesting. It doesn't need a blown V6 to do that.

Indeed, you seem to make this point yourself later, indicating the relative dearth of M3s in places "past road-racing and grocery getting." That's what happens when you go beyond the $50K mark -- fewer cars, and fewer of them knitted together in garage-mechanic crazy maniac communities. They exist (for Cadillac too), just not so thick as cars that younger guys with fewer obligations build up.

As for the supposed lack of individuality in the Chevy smallblock world, you need to get out more. First there's the fact that the Chevy smallblock is the go-to transplant engine. Visit YouTube and type in LS1 and see what you get. Next, consider how many different ways the Chevy smallblock can be tweaked. If you're not making 1000hp you're a nobody?? That's an elitist attitude; maybe you get that if you hang out with hardcore tuners with deep pockets, but come on, that's hardly the only experience out there. Most of us respect our fellow gearheads wherever they are on the tuning scale. Now it is true, if you want to be a big fish it's easier in a small pond, but fame is fleeting, and fun is more easily shared.

As for Cadillac's desire for exclusive powertrains, what can't be ignored is that the three products that brought Cadillac back from the dead are all powered by Chevy smallblocks -- Escalade, CTS-V 1, and CTS-V 2. When Cadillac insisted on having its own engine it didn't do as well: witness STS-V, XLR and XLR-V, and their last V6 turbo, the one-and-done 2.8L in the SRX.

I'm not saying the LF3 won't be successful under the hood of Cadillacs, but GM should beware choosing a less-powerful and less-proven engine for a performance halo car. No one will question the performance cred of a Cadillac with a Corvette engine.

Of course, GM Powertrain has been doing great things lately -- would it be too ironic to say they're firing on all cylinders? -- and a TTV6 ATS-V would be fun to drive and make the boost-nut 1% positively giddy. It just seems like an unnecessary risk on a product that cannot afford to come up short.

.Jinx
 
#39 · (Edited)
you know, I've had a change of heart, this thing really needs a V8. If It ends up with the LF3, I don't know, I might really just look for a used German V8 bruiser. Which is a shame because I want a damn american sports sedan with a damn american V8.

rolling on the stock mufflers with the V, I really just miss that noise way too much.
 
#40 · (Edited)
I don't like the notion of two ATS-Vs... And here's my reasoning. Because it should be unique and desirable from the launch (pun intended). Let the 'V' speak for itself. Look at the C63 coupe for example. I live in the Metro DC area and I have seen exactly ONE C63 coupe since its release. Simply put, they don't sell (here at least). But Daimler is aware that some want want more power/exclusivity. Hence the Black Series. If GM wants these to sell (no smallish true American performance sedan on market) it should be EXCLUSIVE and POWERFUL from the get go. Like it has always been.
 
#41 ·
The catch is that, a V8 version would (presumably) be no more powerful than the LF3 given that power estimates for this car are between 420-450 HP and the LT1 (in the corvette) was ratted for exactly 455/460 a few days ago.

a V8 ATS-V would simply a preference, not a performance trim package. Yes it might be an all-inclusive package that packs lots of options with it, but following those lines, I'd be fine with it, even thought I share you concerns in precisely the same manner; I really don't like the idea of owning a car that's not as great as it could have been.
 
#42 ·
It will be very interesting in a year or so to find out what the real world mpg difference there is between the TTV6 and the LT1. I would bet that there's none or very little because TTV6 drivers will spend a lot of time in the significant boost range.

Jud
 
#47 ·
The lt1 in a 3200lb vette has been estimated at 26mpg
But not officially rated yet. The outgoing Corvette does 16/26 -- you can bet your bottom dollar that, at the very least, the highway rating for the Active Fuel Management direct-injection seven-speed manual radiator-shuttered C7 will go up. I bet the city mileage goes up too.

The 3700-3800# vsport is rated for 17/25
With an eight-speed automatic.

I don't think we'll get close to apples-to-apples for these two powerplants, at least not until the new Camaro arrives.
 
#44 ·
M5eater said:
There should be some difference but probably not as much as we think

The lt1 in a 3200lb vette has been estimated at 26mpg

The 3700-3800# vsport is rated for 17/25

My guess between 1-3mpg favoring the lf3
Well, we're talking about expectations for both engines. We have to compare equal total weights for both vehicles. I still think that the TTV6 will be worked harder than the LT1, reducing any actual difference. Anyway, I'm glad the TTV6 has been developed and it should be a success for the non-car "enthusiasts."

Jud
 
#46 ·
It would be interesting to see where they take this new 'badge'. If it'll remain with the CTS( a waste) only or carry over to the ATS in some way.

the 3.6 RWD is already pretty performance packed.

I'm also surprised that they're shovelling 410 HP into the XTS. That's fantastic.
 
#51 ·
Rumors are rumors. Look how wrong so many were regarding the Corvette C7. I am a Corvette C6 owner as well as a new ATS owner. If GM is going to be making new engines for the C7, where else do you think they MAY USE THEM! If you look to to the ATS, it is a natural for it. Small, light in weight per hp produced with direct injection, etc. All the things a new ATS coupe could use to sell cars. GM is not going to drop and old school LS generation motor in a new ATS-V! LS motors will continue to do stout work in other GM cars and trucks. There will be a new LS7 put in the C7 ZO6 model and if they do a new ZR1, it will most likely be the new C7 motor but supercharged. They have great experience at that..!! My two cents... Keep in mind, the C7 will only sell 20,000 to 25,000 cars per year to begin with. That is not enough motor production for GM. Therefore, they stick them in other cars, like the ATS-V! That way they get to use more like 100,000 motors per year. That GM could most likely live with....
 
#52 ·
The new-generation pickups will provide plenty of volume for the new smallblocks. The LT1 itself will surely wind up in the next-generation Camaro (about 42K my2011, 27K in my2012).

The ATS-V is probably not going to sell a lot of volume. It will owe a debt to its engine, moreso than the other way around.
 
#53 ·
If he ATS V is going to be competitive against the Germans it needs a 7 speed DCT minimum and a 450+ hp turbo 6 cylinder. It should also have some sort of AWD option as well.

If I was a betting man I'd guess a ZF sourced DCT and a 450-500hp turbocharged six will be offered. The big question is if they go long stroke 7k rpm redline) or short stroke (closer to 8K rpm redline)

AWD, 450hp plus, DCT, latest mag ride control tech and light weight will be a M3 killer on the track and street.
 
#58 ·
... I really need awd in buffalo ...
Buffalo? You need a Jeep-V.

Seriously, I'm just assuming no AWD availability for an ATS-V based on GM's past offerings (CTS-V, STS-V, XLR-V, Vette, etc). Probably more likely with AT than MT, but let's hope for a full offering. With effective launch control, it's possible.
 
#64 ·
You forgot +100hp less too. My buddy has a new M5 and just got it dyno'd with a tune and catback, 650rwhp/590rwtq thru a manual trans. BMW underrated them from the factory, a lot dyno at 550rwhp when they're rated at 560 fly wheel. Huge gains from just a tune and little exhaust, that's the beauty of booster cars, you'll never get that from an NA car.
 
#70 ·
DiabloMike said:
the LS7 in the current z/28 is the same as the C6 Z06 based LS7 as far as I have seen. This sounded like a new 7.0 to replace the existing LS7. A direct injected 427 LS would indeed be sick.
And sick enough to be the ATS-V engine. That's it. Imagine the performance and the great support from car guys.
 
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