Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6 - Page 21
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 21 of 22 FirstFirst ... 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 LastLast
Results 301 to 315 of 319
Like Tree44Likes
Cadillac ATS-V Series Forum Discussion, Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6 in Cadillac V-Series Forums; Just in: http://www.burlappcar.com/2013/11/2015-cadillac-ats-v.html W ith so many stories coming out about this engine, not to mention its hp rating, there ...
  1. #301
    rand49er's Avatar
    rand49er is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): 2005 CTS-V, 2011 Cruze 1.4T 6MT
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    South Lyon, MI
    Age
    65
    Posts
    13,263

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Just in:

    http://www.burlappcar.com/2013/11/2015-cadillac-ats-v.html



    W
    ith so many stories coming out about this engine, not to mention its hp rating, there must be something to this. Wonder if the Germans are thinking the same thing.
    '05 CTS-V, Maggie, Kooks, Hotchkis, Ground Control, Corsa, B&M, DSS/Hendrix, Full 3M Clear Bra, Autovation, V Headrests, CTS Console, STS-V 55w Fogs, Black Vette FRCs, Specter Werkes, Katech LS9 Clutch, SS Brake Lines, Heavymetals U-Turn Fuel Line Eliminator, Momo Combat Evo Shift Knob, Wldwhl Clear Sidemarkers, Linea Corse LC855 Wheels or OEM wheels w/'06-'07 Center Caps, plus a couple more. 472 RWHP/411 RWTQ (Mustang Dyno).

  2. #302
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Age
    39
    Posts
    37,475

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    It wouldn't surprise me anymore. With the amount of torque management they program into these powertrains, peak hp rating is not very meaningful anymore.

  3. #303
    rand49er's Avatar
    rand49er is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): 2005 CTS-V, 2011 Cruze 1.4T 6MT
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    South Lyon, MI
    Age
    65
    Posts
    13,263

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH View Post
    It wouldn't surprise me anymore. With the amount of torque management they program into these powertrains, peak hp rating is not very meaningful anymore.
    So, you're saying to protect the drivetrain, we may not really see this kind of power while actually driving a 500 hp ATS-V?

    That kinda stinks.
    '05 CTS-V, Maggie, Kooks, Hotchkis, Ground Control, Corsa, B&M, DSS/Hendrix, Full 3M Clear Bra, Autovation, V Headrests, CTS Console, STS-V 55w Fogs, Black Vette FRCs, Specter Werkes, Katech LS9 Clutch, SS Brake Lines, Heavymetals U-Turn Fuel Line Eliminator, Momo Combat Evo Shift Knob, Wldwhl Clear Sidemarkers, Linea Corse LC855 Wheels or OEM wheels w/'06-'07 Center Caps, plus a couple more. 472 RWHP/411 RWTQ (Mustang Dyno).

  4. #304
    Hoosier Daddy's Avatar
    Hoosier Daddy is offline Moderator
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS Performance 2.0T M6
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Winchestertonfieldville, AZ
    Age
    65
    Posts
    3,576

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH View Post
    It wouldn't surprise me anymore. With the amount of torque management they program into these powertrains, peak hp rating is not very meaningful anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by rand49er View Post
    So, you're saying to protect the drivetrain, we may not really see this kind of power while actually driving a 500 hp ATS-V?

    That kinda stinks.
    If they advertise 500 HP, you'll get it. Jimmy may be referring to how boosted engines can make the torque just about anything they want at any RPM and therefore peak numbers have very little to do with the area under the curve than with an NA engine. Area under the curve is all that ever mattered, its just that with an NA street engine the peak numbers were pretty much in lock step with the area under the curve. So people fixated on peak numbers since it was a simpler concept.

  5. #305
    rand49er's Avatar
    rand49er is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): 2005 CTS-V, 2011 Cruze 1.4T 6MT
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    South Lyon, MI
    Age
    65
    Posts
    13,263

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    If they advertise 500 HP, you'll get it. Jimmy may be referring to how boosted engines can make the torque just about anything they want at any RPM and therefore peak numbers have very little to do with the area under the curve than with an NA engine. Area under the curve is all that ever mattered, its just that with an NA street engine the peak numbers were pretty much in lock step with the area under the curve. So people fixated on peak numbers since it was a simpler concept.
    I understand area under the curve. I think I was referring to more of a launch-control-nanny kind of thing or limits on torque under certain conditions.

    Heck, ever since I put my maggie on, I'm completely sold on FI. LOVE the "area under the curve." Street driving is so-o much more fun, and the way they're able to get today's turbos to perform at such low RPMs, there's no waiting for them to spool up ... you just go. LOVE that area.
    '05 CTS-V, Maggie, Kooks, Hotchkis, Ground Control, Corsa, B&M, DSS/Hendrix, Full 3M Clear Bra, Autovation, V Headrests, CTS Console, STS-V 55w Fogs, Black Vette FRCs, Specter Werkes, Katech LS9 Clutch, SS Brake Lines, Heavymetals U-Turn Fuel Line Eliminator, Momo Combat Evo Shift Knob, Wldwhl Clear Sidemarkers, Linea Corse LC855 Wheels or OEM wheels w/'06-'07 Center Caps, plus a couple more. 472 RWHP/411 RWTQ (Mustang Dyno).

  6. #306
    roadpie4u is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): ATS 2.0 M6 FE3
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    269

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Quote Originally Posted by rand49er View Post
    I understand area under the curve. I think I was referring to more of a launch-control-nanny kind of thing or limits on torque under certain conditions.
    That is part of it. Yes, they can limit maximum torque in first gear to help control "drivetrain abuse", but sometimes limiting that torque (and slowing the turbo spool up) helps to maintain traction when you have too much power when launching. Those same nannies can also allow "overboost" conditions for short bursts.

    But yeah, the "under the curve" for the ATS-V should obliterate a N/A V8.
    rand49er likes this.

  7. #307
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Age
    39
    Posts
    37,475

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Chrysler opened the floodgates with their SRT cars. They crammed so much power into marginal, awd, drivetrains, they had no choice but to limit torque off the line, during shifts, in low gears, when the wheels are turned, when trail-braking, pretty much whenever the car wasn't going straight in higher gears.

    Now all the manufacturers need to get these big peak numbers that look good on commercials, so they all do it. I don't have any experience with this, I am just going off of what I read on these forums. But why do you think we are seeing so much more failure with tuned, modern engines, that should be better engineered and manufactured (than their counterparts from 10 years ago)?

    Just look over at ls1crap, all the threads about people finding extra power here and there in the tune. Free power that the manufacturer locked up. Why do you think they lock up that power? And it's only going to get worse now that they have to start making cars lighter and lighter due to CAFE. Drivetrain and subframes are a pretty easy place to lose unsprung pounds. As long as you limit the punishment they have to withstand during high-stress situations (like launching and shifting). Unfortunately, those are also situations where tenths start racking up on your ET.
    RippyPartsDept likes this.

  8. #308
    JFJr's Avatar
    JFJr is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2009 CTS-V (TR-6060, Black Raven/Ebony, Recaros, Ultraview)
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Age
    70
    Posts
    1,403
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH
    Chrysler opened the floodgates with their SRT cars. They crammed so much power into marginal, awd, drivetrains, they had no choice but to limit torque off the line, during shifts, in low gears, when the wheels are turned, when trail-braking, pretty much whenever the car wasn't going straight in higher gears. Now all the manufacturers need to get these big peak numbers that look good on commercials, so they all do it. I don't have any experience with this, I am just going off of what I read on these forums. But why do you think we are seeing so much more failure with tuned, modern engines, that should be better engineered and manufactured (than their counterparts from 10 years ago)? Just look over at ls1crap, all the threads about people finding extra power here and there in the tune. Free power that the manufacturer locked up. Why do you think they lock up that power? And it's only going to get worse now that they have to start making cars lighter and lighter due to CAFE. Drivetrain and subframes are a pretty easy place to lose unsprung pounds. As long as you limit the punishment they have to withstand during high-stress situations (like launching and shifting). Unfortunately, those are also situations where tenths start racking up on your ET.
    Jimmy, I think that you hit on it. Why wouldn't a n/a V8 (with more displacement) be quicker around a challenging track than a TTV6? Who cares about quarter mile times; they aren't relevant. The V's were never designed as drag racers; they are road racers. And what about durability in a stock, over-boosted factory warranted engine? And then we get the true high performance sound with a V8 and not that of a muffled, asthmatic, bumblebee. Good stuff for car guys.

  9. #309
    roadpie4u is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): ATS 2.0 M6 FE3
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    269

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    There's some serious rose colored glasses going on here...
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH View Post
    But why do you think we are seeing so much more failure with tuned, modern engines, that should be better engineered and manufactured (than their counterparts from 10 years ago)?
    A Corvette from 2003 had 350hp. Corvettes have a hundred more now. I don't care what you want to "unlock" with a tune - you'll never get a hundred more to equal it. So right off the bat, both being equal, cars of today make MORE power MORE reliably than those from a decade ago - I've never seen power gains without nuking driveline components like we have today except for things like the SVT/Cobra/Lightning.

    Like LT1's that blow transmission output shafts at 400whp, ten bolt rear ends that nuke on a -stock- engine, pistons getting holes running lean just on like a basic cam or if you boost it it flies apart at 4# or 6# of boost. The LS1? Those things had the same glass rear end, same output shaft problems. Chassis was a wet noodle. Want to break 500hp? Rebuild the shortblock, get the T56 output shaft off the Viper, get a 12 bolt - or you're just playing roulette.

    A great example? The transmission in the 5th gen Camaro is rated to handle 600tq. The T56 from ten years ago? A measly 350tq!

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH View Post
    Just look over at ls1crap, all the threads about people finding extra power here and there in the tune. Free power that the manufacturer locked up. Why do you think they lock up that power?
    I don't know of *any* guys with an LS_ series engine that blew my mind with horsepower increases without intake/exhaust/cams/heads/tune or boost except for the LS7 - and those guys nuked their engines. Most of the LT1/LS1 guys (myself included) nuked plenty of rear ends and transmissions just playing with mild horsepower gains. Most guys with the L67 or LS4 nuked their transmission on a -stock- engine before 100k. I saw plenty of blown differential housings where the solution was ordering a new $900 outer casing. Modded they ALL required a rebuild of the driveline. It's not like ten years ago was any better than today.

    Heck, had a later year HHR SS or Cobalt SS? A Posi diff and Brembo brake upgrade was $495 when you order the car! Find me a posi upgrade for that cheap anywhere - that was a GREAT upgrade that didn't exist in 2003.

    Name cars that can literally double the stock output of the engine and not tear the rest of the driveline apart in relatively short order on a decent sample set. I can think of the old 4G63 DSM (which would still eat CV joints for lunch), the WRX guys (same problem). Guys with LNFs put out 400hp to the wheels. The ATS is getting similar outputs. The GT500 of a few years ago can see over 50% increases in power on the stock bottom end.

    Going from 400hp to 450hp maybe a 50hp gain, but it's just over a 10% gain. Going from 200whp to 250whp is the same gain, but its a 25% improvement. 25% margins really didn't exist ten years ago - and you cant get gains like that from tunes only on N/A engines. Heck, you needed a LOT more than a tune to do that in the 90s on boosted engines as well - the ECU didn't have control of the wastegate back then, so it required large numbers of mods to break big numbers.

    Or the early 90s Supra guys. Want to get to 300hp? Easy. 400hp? Swap turbo, intercooler, downpipe, intercooler piping, exhaust... No magic "tune only" to gain a hundred horsepower like the ATS can today.
    Quote Originally Posted by JFJr
    Why wouldn't a n/a V8 (with more displacement) be quicker around a challenging track than a TTV6?
    Then why aren't all Rally cars small 400hp V8s as opposed to 400hp turbo 4s? The weight of the driveline is roughly the same and you don't need to worry about airflow to the intercooler at low speeds. Realistically, a boosted engine with good midrange (ie not 800hp supras) has better midrange power than an equivalent N/A engine around a course as long as you engineer your cooling system properly.

    F1 went to smaller boosted engines to make more power and be faster around the same tracks...

    Regardless, on a race course, your gears are WAY more important than how your engine makes its power. As long as you can keep in powerband (or in boost) you're better off - the problem is when you get to the point of a slower turn needing two downshifts (or three) instead of one, you slide out of powerband on a N/A engine - meanwhile the turbo engine with a blip of the sequential gearbox is still in boost and making maximum power. On a street car doing track duty when you don't have a close-ratio sequential, a 500HP turbo V6 just has better midrange torque than a 500HP N/A V8 to get you up and out of the corner and back out the straights. But better gearing will win the day.

    We live in an era where cars make more power from the factory than any year before. More cars get modded and have higher gains than ever before (either total power or percentage).

    A stock Z28 Camaro in 1995 made similar wheel horspower to a 2013 ATS. Want to bring both to 350whp? The ATS needs JUST a tune and a downpipe. Camaro? Intake. Throttle body. Cam. Rockers. Headers. High flow cats. Exhaust. Tune.

    Want 500whp? ATS? Add a turbo swap, intercooler, and an intake. Camaro? Get a big sheet of paper. I had to rebuild my whole bottom end and add boost or go to a 383/396 (which again, means a whole rebuild and new rotating assembly).

    There's no question. 2013 is a WAY better year to 2003.

    That's sorta my point.

  10. #310
    JFJr's Avatar
    JFJr is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2009 CTS-V (TR-6060, Black Raven/Ebony, Recaros, Ultraview)
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Age
    70
    Posts
    1,403
    Sometimes rose-colored glasses depend on your viewpoint; we all are entitled to our opinions.

  11. #311
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
    RippyPartsDept is offline Hi, I'm Chris - Please Read My Signature
    Automobile(s): 1999 DeVille "Bianca" (white/blue, VIN-Y, 160k)
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Age
    34
    Posts
    13,944

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    rose-colored glasses

    An optimistic perception of something; a positive opinion; seeing something in a positive way, often thinking of it as better than it actually is.
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rose-colored_glasses
    Chris Heath (RippyPartsDept) is an ASE Certified GM Parts Consultant at
    Rippy is a Cadillac, Hummer, Saturn & Saab dealership - family owned and operated in Wilmington, NC since 1946
    We offer all forum members deals on parts and freight - e: parts@rippyautomotive.com ph: 800-RIPPY-22
    <-- insert standard boilerplate about posts not necessarily representing my employer, etc -->

  12. #312
    Hoosier Daddy's Avatar
    Hoosier Daddy is offline Moderator
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS Performance 2.0T M6
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Winchestertonfieldville, AZ
    Age
    65
    Posts
    3,576

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Quote Originally Posted by JFJr View Post
    Sometimes rose-colored glasses depend on your viewpoint; we all are entitled to our opinions.
    It takes a big man to admit it though. Props to you.

  13. #313
    SC2150's Avatar
    SC2150 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): CTS
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Palmetto, FL
    Age
    58
    Posts
    1,597

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Jimmy is correct. Tons of torque management tables in the tune to protect the drivetrain.

    On the 3.6's power ability, a shop has just put out a twin turbo new Camaro 3.6L with over 800 rwhp and tq!!! The trans failed, butnot until the dyno #'s were released. Amazing with how light these motors are and the good fuel economy. That is way over the 700 we hit.
    RX Performance Products/RevXtreme.com 941-721-1826

  14. #314
    JFJr's Avatar
    JFJr is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2009 CTS-V (TR-6060, Black Raven/Ebony, Recaros, Ultraview)
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Age
    70
    Posts
    1,403
    BTW, the purpose for most of my posts was to lobby Cadillac to put a V8 in the ATS-V, not to start a n/a V8 vs. TTV6 war on this forum. Besides, I don't think that any car guy would object to the new LT1 (massaged to 500 hp) in the engine bay. I don't know if I would buy an ATS-V with a 3.2TTV6 making 500 hp, but I would certainly be open-minded about it. The more it winds up sounding like an LS7, the more I will warm up to it. And the TR6070 could tip the scales.

  15. #315
    DiabloMike's Avatar
    DiabloMike is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): ATS 2.0T
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    South Florida
    Age
    40
    Posts
    395

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Quote Originally Posted by JFJr View Post
    BTW, the purpose for most of my posts was to lobby Cadillac to put a V8 in the ATS-V, not to start a n/a V8 vs. TTV6 war on this forum. Besides, I don't think that any car guy would object to the new LT1 (massaged to 500 hp) in the engine bay. I don't know if I would buy an ATS-V with a 3.2TTV6 making 500 hp, but I would certainly be open-minded about it. The more it winds up sounding like an LS7, the more I will warm up to it. And the TR6070 could tip the scales.
    the days of the N/A V8 as we know it are short lived. Stricter and stricter emissions standards are seeing to that. Forced induction will be a big part of making power in the future. The trend toward smaller displacement, direct injected, vvt equipped, boosted engines is already underway. You will see the TT V6 models outperform the supercharged V8s in shorter time, mark my words. You've already got 2.0t powered ATS models making LS7 type numbers at the wheels with simple bolt on upgrades, just imagine what the 3.6tt will do with tuning, then a pair of modified turbos...then a pair of aftermarket replacement turbos...it's gonna be fun
    Mike Litsch
    DiabloSport Inc.
    Diablosport.com

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting