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Cadillac ATS-V Series Forum Discussion, Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6 in Cadillac V-Series Forums; yeah anythings possible folks... but lets stick to plausible, likely, and logical...
  1. #211
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    yeah anythings possible folks... but lets stick to plausible, likely, and logical
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  2. #212
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    I think an AWD ATS Vsport with the LF3 is logical. Keep it detuned like the package for the XTS (410 hp). Hopefully the in house eight speed will be available to handle the torque.

    The Elmiraj motor OR a tuned LT1 for the little V(500+ hp)...

    The CTS-V should get a blown LT1 (570+ hp)
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  3. #213
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    from the rumors I've heard the ATS Vsport will be the NAV6 powered car and the V-series will be the TTV6

    seems a bit weak unless they somehow figure out a way to get some more ponies out of the 3.6L
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  4. #214
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Quote Originally Posted by RippyPartsDept View Post
    from the rumors I've heard the ATS Vsport will be the NAV6 powered car and the V-series will be the TTV6

    seems a bit weak unless they somehow figure out a way to get some more ponies out of the 3.6L
    in comparison to the 3 series maybe, but in comparison to the old engines powering the C class, A4 and IS lineup, they're ahead of the curve. a Vsport playing to Alpha strengths would do just fine as long as it's not encroaching on S4 or 335i msport money too much.

  5. #215
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    I'd take a teeny tiny amount of turbo lag over the sc and its running out of breath at high rpms...

  6. #216
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    turbo lag virtually nonexistent
    That's what they say instead of saying "the turbo lag isn't quite as bad as it was in the 80s and 90s".

  7. #217
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    The TTV6 (at ~440hp) would be superior to the LT1 (at ~440hp) in the ATS-V. I know people want the better exhaust note of the V8, but the TTV6 is the better option for several reasons - which have been beaten to death over at other forums like gminsidenews and cz28.

    It has also been decided for (wow, look how time flies) for a year which engine the ATS-V and ATS VSport would get.

    Regardless, the ATS-V has more to think about than just itself and the CTS - it has to prepare (and provide) the development of the Camaro as well. GM is able to develop such a "low cost" car on a "high cost" platform by utilizing a lot of front end engineering off of Cadillac's budgets. By making sure that Camaro lines up properly with options, equipment, and materials - they can make a Camaro coupe, an ATS coupe, and a CTS coupe all on the same platform without being too similar in design and final specifications (or price!).
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  8. #218
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    Let's circle back around and talk about engine weight. Is there any positive proof that the NA LT1 is significantly or at all heavier than the TTV6? If not where is the advantage? Better EPA figures for the TTV6? I would hope so. But the way these cars will be driven, will there be any real world difference? Is this to appease the "feel good" yuppies? Or is this discussion begun by someone that owns no V and has nothing better to do than start trouble in a forum?

    Jud
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    Jud

  9. #219
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Quote Originally Posted by roadpie4u View Post
    The TTV6 (at ~440hp) would be superior to the LT1 (at ~440hp) in the ATS-V.
    Superior in what way? That's a heavy handed statement to make there.

  10. #220
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Quote Originally Posted by JFJr View Post
    Or is this discussion begun by someone that owns no V and has nothing better to do than start trouble in a forum?
    Just to clarify, he's not talking about Cadillac recalling the current gen and swapping the V8 for a V6 turbo. And if that isn't what you thought, are you just starting trouble? I mean you don't even own a V3.

  11. #221
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Quote Originally Posted by JFJr View Post
    Is there any positive proof that the NA LT1 is significantly or at all heavier than the TTV6? If not where is the advantage? Better EPA figures for the TTV6? I would hope so. But the way these cars will be driven, will there be any real world difference?
    If you think about it, there's pretty much no way the LT1 is heavier. Sure, it'll have two more cylinders in the shortblock - but the head castings are much smaller. Additionally, the V6 gets a pair of turbochargers and now requires an intercooler, which also add to the total powertrain weight of the vehicle. The weights for both fully dressed engines are going to be pretty close in the end, but there's no definitive proof or data to say what that difference will be.

    The question isn't just how much mass they are adding, but the center of it. Alpha is intended to be a lightweight car, yes, but it is intended to go after the 3 series and handling/performance is more important than weight. Could a DOHC TT offer a center of mass that was farther back? Sure. Could it also be higher up? Possibly. Can we confirm or deny either at this point? Nope.

    On fuel economy, the problem is thanks to the gap between testing techniques for the EPA and DOT testing (window sticker and CAFE averages) all manufacturers now have to play a game in their gearing & calibration tests. Do they set up a car for maximum CAFE ratings for their averages, or maximum on the window sticker (which would be closer to "real world" values, but still not perfect) or strike somewhere between? Tough call.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH View Post
    Superior in what way? That's a heavy handed statement to make there.
    That's fair - it is really heavy handed, but I've had the luxury of talking to a lot of people about it for nearly two years now and I can understand the reasoning as I've been in the industry in powertrain. The problem is it's really hard to separate our own biases and prejudices on something as spiritual as going to a N/A V8 or a TTV6. The preference for one type of an engine or another is huge to us, as enthusiasts, where we have the luxury of knowing more than, and being vastly more critical than, the average consumer.

    It's bonkers how much negative press GM's pushrods get - they are compact, lightweight, horsepower dense, powerful and pretty fuel efficient. But media around the world love blasting anything that isn't overhead cam. Which is better, to deal with media complaining about the engine note of the V6 versus BMW's or watch them write pages and pages about "old technology". Besides, even BMW uses the stereo to make engine notes now! Ah well.

    GM needs to keep the alpha siblings differentiated to the point where someone doesn't just step back and say "why should I buy a cadillac coupe when I can get a Camaro?". Yes, they'll be at different market segments and different price points, but at the end of the day they'll be on the same platform built at the same plant on the same line - and that's a tough nut to crack. We give the Camaro a V8, but an ATS Coupe would be a TTV6. Both have the same bones, both have the same build - but one has the soul of boost and the other normal aspiration. That'll give them a distinctly different feel to the driver - and it means the Camaro in a way gets some better treatment from the average enthusiast - and I (as I am still a Camaro guy at heart) want to make sure Camaro gets some special treatment.

    But what if the decision wasn't just about the ATS or even the CTS - but Cadillac in general? What if it was determined that the entire brand would just get boosted engines (espicially in top trim models) in order to change the brand identity and try to push the vehicles to a larger global stage where displacement matters?

    Additionally, the TTV6 is going to appear in both transverse and longitudinal applications - the LT1 will not.

    At the end of the day, the TTV6 theoretically offers the ATS-V better handling, better fuel economy, better tuning capability (without rebuilding the engine), better torque management for drivetrain reliability/traction control/stability control, packaging of AWD, similar power, more space in the engine bay for air control and the cooling module, similar NVH, similar reliability - and a spiritual difference to, the new LT1 - giving a unique feature for the future of the Camaro - at the cost of an exhaust note for the ATS-V. As a Camaro guy, I gotta say that's a good thing for Camaro purists and the ATS crowd will just have to deal with it.

  12. #222
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    But at the end of the day, the ATS-V will be marketed to car guys, so why not cater to them and not some global marketing crap for the masses? It will be a low production model anyway and the LT1 is begging for that car. I don't agree that using the TTV6 frees up more engine bay space vs. the LT1 or that real world fuel economy will be better with the TTV6. I wonder if the owners of Ford Ecoboast (oops, Ecoboost) TTV6 vehicles are experiencing significantly better mpg when driving aggressively vs. the V8's they're replacing?

    Jud
    Jud

  13. #223
    roadpie4u is online now Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Quote Originally Posted by JFJr View Post
    But at the end of the day, the ATS-V will be marketed to car guys, so why not cater to them and not some global marketing crap for the masses? It will be a low production model anyway and the LT1 is begging for that car. I don't agree that using the TTV6 frees up more engine bay space vs. the LT1 or that real world fuel economy will be better with the TTV6. I wonder if the owners of Ford Ecoboast (oops, Ecoboost) TTV6 vehicles are experiencing significantly better mpg when driving aggressively vs. the V8's they're replacing?
    Well, in regards to freeing up space for a cooling module, it does (as the engine is technically two cylinder bores shorter), as the turbos are in the width of the engine and the bay has been designed for that. What honestly amazes me is how BMW continues to tightly package their straight sixes so cleanly.

    Around town, in day-to-day traffic, no load in the bed, a LOT of F150 owners see better mpg. Again, being enthusiasts that drive their cars harder and oftentimes use/abuse trucks for what they were theoretically intended, then you are right and the Ecoboost does no better. But that's what "YMMV" is for on the sticker. According to Ford's CAFE averages though, the Ecoboost is seriously superior than a V8 equipped model. Again, they have to play government games.

    And I WISH you were right about the ATS-V being catered toward car guys. In theory you are. But how many CTS-V's ever see more than a few blips of the throttle? How many Z06's see the track? Heck, most CTS-Vs and Corvettes are automatics.

    If the ATS-V accounts for 5% of ATS sales I'd be shocked it was doing so well. If that were true and 2% of all ATS sales were Manual Transmission ATS-V cars I'd be shocked it was doing so well.

    My dealer has sold/leased quite a few ATS's - but only ONE with a manual transmission. I called the other Cadillac dealer a couple months ago and they haven't sold a single one with a manual.

  14. #224
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    I will be keeping my Camaro SS MT for a while. There is really nothing out there, ATS-V included, that interests me. I really believe the car scene is getting blah. Sure, they keep packing more horsepower in, more refinement in, more technology in, etc etc. And they will keep going as long as consumers keep buying this crap to the point that our "cars" have become completely sterile driving appliances.

  15. #225
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH View Post
    I will be keeping my Camaro SS MT for a while. There is really nothing out there, ATS-V included, that interests me. I really believe the car scene is getting blah. Sure, they keep packing more horsepower in, more refinement in, more technology in, etc etc. And they will keep going as long as consumers keep buying this crap to the point that our "cars" have become completely sterile driving appliances.
    The Z28 doesn't interest you at all?

    I'm half contemplating another trade-in when those hit shelves.

    The thing comes standard with audio and a/c delete.
    bruff1977 likes this.

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