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Cadillac ATS-V Series Forum Discussion, Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6 in Cadillac V-Series Forums; Originally Posted by JFJr We need a subthread devoted to those that are looking for more mpg out of these ...
  1. #196
    Ancient Mariner's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Quote Originally Posted by JFJr View Post
    We need a subthread devoted to those that are looking for more mpg out of these high performance cars, so that they can stop cluttering up another forums.

    Jud
    It was the same thing on GT500 forums when I had a Shelby - even there some people were complaining about gas mileage...never did understand that level of concern either, with any type of performance car

  2. #197
    Jinx is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    What's difficult to understand about the fact that some people daily drive their performance cars?

    I never did understand why people were so concerned about modifying their cars for more power. If you wanted more power, why didn't you just buy a more powerful car in the first place?

  3. #198
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Gas mpg with ATS and sports car is a ridiculous conversation.
    Sports cars get excellent MPG. The new Corvette will hit 30 mph highway(so did the old ones). My 25 year old C4 easily manages 20+. Various other 2 door coupes get excellent mileage.

    Super sedans, traditionally get horrible MPG because they use the same huge engines in a car that weighs a half ton more than the coupes which use the same engines.

    a twin turbo V6 in a 3600lb platform has no reason to not manage at least 25 highway. Plastering 'low mpg because racecar' signage in this era of fuel economy conscious consumers is the ridiculous conversation. Not the other way around.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by M5eater

    Sports cars get excellent MPG. The new Corvette will hit 30 mph highway(so did the old ones). My 25 year old C4 easily manages 20+. Various other 2 door coupes get excellent mileage.

    Super sedans, traditionally get horrible MPG because they use the same huge engines in a car that weighs a half ton more than the coupes which use the same engines.

    a twin turbo V6 in a 3600lb platform has no reason to not manage at least 25 highway. Plastering 'low mpg because racecar' signage in this era of fuel economy conscious consumers is the ridiculous conversation. Not the other way around.
    What about real world mpg when you have to be in boost all the time to keep up because you have very little displacement? Forget EPA figures, they only apply if you drive like your grandparents. Those that own the great Ford Ecoboost engines may be experiencing that phenomena. So lets wait and see what real world results are, not projected EPA figures.

    Jud
    Jud

  5. #200
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    here's a thought, since most reviews of the ATS state one of the things that let it down hampering test results is the transmission one test specifically stating that the gearing let the bmw beat it to 60 and with Cadillac engines starting to show they might be slightly overbuilt as evidenced by the big gains pfadt is getting, i was thinking with just using cadillacs parts bin, having the ATS V-Sport have the 8 speed which should bring the car in line with the M-Sport cars, and the ATS-V the TTV6 tuned to 450 hp. the additional gears could definitely be set up to add some punch in acceleration and a V specific tune for the TTV6 seems feasible if GM's turbo engineers are working with the same conservative margins with the TTV6 as they seem to have with the 2.0T.....thoughts?

  6. #201
    mikesul is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    I read in the new Car & Driver that the 2014 CTS with the 2.0T option engine gets the 6 speed auto trans. The Sport with the 3.6TT gets the 8 speed auto. Probably means the ATS with the 2.0T will also get the "old" six speed and not the 8 speed even when available in the ATS.

  7. #202
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesul View Post
    I read in the new Car & Driver that the 2014 CTS with the 2.0T option engine gets the 6 speed auto trans. The Sport with the 3.6TT gets the 8 speed auto. Probably means the ATS with the 2.0T will also get the "old" six speed and not the 8 speed even when available in the ATS.
    it is a little nutty especially considering the 2.0T would probably benefit more from the 8 speed than the 3.6, that said they both will benefit greatly. if I had to guess, I'd say this is a supply cost thing, meaning GM is buying this transmission and the supply to roll it out on the 2.0T, 3.6, and the TTV6 on both the ATS and CTS may not be there this or next year. plus the cost of a new tranny vs one long in hand may have blown some pricing targets.

    ----------

    let the jokes begin regarding the wording of my last sentence

  8. #203
    mikesul is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    I read that GM is using the Aisin-Warner 8 speed auto until they finish development on their own version. Then maybe it will be available in all their models. They need a stronger version to handle higher torque.

  9. #204
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Just to answer some questions and thoughts:

    The 8 spd will become common... eventually. While the 8spd will help with mpg on any application, the issue is when the transmission starts shifting constantly and hunts for "ideal" when driving normally. Compare a 4 cylinder Malibu with the A6 from a few years ago to the ATS LTG A6 of today - the software on the LTG is significantly better, but more work still needs to be done.

    Will the ATS-V come with the A8 and M6? Or will it get an M7? That's an excellent question. Further, would the 2.0T benefit from an M7? I don't know.

    The government has multiple methods of testing mpg and emissions. Thanks to recent changes in the testing procedures, a car may be rated 42mpg hwy according to CAFE, but 32mpg hwy according to DOT (and thus the window sticker). Manufacturers now have to make a choice - optimize a car's calibration and gearing for the DOT & sticker or for CAFE.

    The ATS *should* be able to parts-bin-raid the ATS-V for suspension and brake components - but once you get to things like Recaro Seats and other unique trim components, it might make more sense to trade in the ATS and get an ATS-V. That's where I'm on the fence. I guess we'll see in another year or so.

  10. #205
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Will the ATS-V come with the A8 and M6? Or will it get an M7? That's an excellent question. Further, would the 2.0T benefit from an M7? I don't know.
    They have a brand new 6speed transmission from Tremec that was specifically designed for the ATS.

    I think that it can be said with a generous amount of certainty, that an ATS-V will reuse this trans.

  11. #206
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    Quote Originally Posted by M5eater View Post
    They have a brand new 6speed transmission from Tremec that was specifically designed for the ATS.

    I think that it can be said with a generous amount of certainty, that an ATS-V will reuse this trans.
    Very unlikely. The TR3160 used in the ATS is only rated for 450Nm/310lb-ft of Torque, which is nowhere near enough to handle the output of the TTV6. Interestingly, the TR3160 weighs only like 110lb.

    Unless Tremec comes out with a "high power" variant assembly like the Viper with the T56 or Tremec greatly changes the rating on the transmission, they cannot re-use it.

    The AY6 in the Camaro V6 is rated to 273lb-ft, which is less than the TR3160, so that's useless (and its a heavier transmission by like 20lb)

    The TR6060 in the Camaro SS and CTS-V is rated for 600lb-ft - which is super crazy overkill (and it's a good 40lb heavier than the TR3160) but it'd work. In theory, as next the Camaro is riding on alpha, the TR6060 needs to fit into the transmission tunnel (or whatever transmission is scheduled to replace the TR6060).

    The TR6070 in the C7 has an unknown assembled weight and rating, but the goals of the "premium" TR6070 include working with the ECU for rev-matching, better NVH, shift quality, efficiency, and lighter weight in a smaller package.

  12. #207
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    An article in Car and Driver yesterday, reported the ATS-V to get the TT V-6 and a manual trans option:

    Cadillac’s Great Twin-Turbo

    This week, I spent a good hour behind the wheel of a pre-production Cadillac XTS4 Vsport, partly on very challenging roads. It was a welcome opportunity to try the new twin-turbo V-6 and to resample the XTS, which left me underwhelmed last time I drove one. The twin-turbocharged, 3.6-liter V-6 will also be offered in the third-generation CTS. In the XTS, it produces 410 horsepower and 369 lb-ft of torque; in the CTS, it will make an even more impressive 420 horsepower and 430 lb-ft of torque. It will also be offered in the upcoming ATS-V, where it can be specified with a manual transmission.

    The new twin-turbo engine is much more enjoyable than the XTS’s standard, naturally aspirated 3.6-liter V-6, on which it is based and which continues to be offered. Throttle pickup is instant, turbo lag virtually nonexistent. Power delivery is impeccably linear. The sound is subdued, yet there a subtly aggressive backdrop that will undoubtedly be more pronounced in the CTS Vsport and especially the ATS-V. The engine makes high-speed cruising an utterly effortless experience.

    What’s more, Cadillac has recalibrated the previously overboosted steering, and the already competent suspension. The XTS4 Vsport provides decent feedback, and it is fun to push it hard through the corners. This car is a vast improvement, and I am impressed. It bodes well for the brand’s aspirations.

  13. #208
    bruff1977 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Glad this report isn't official. Who knows where Meiners received his info.

  14. #209
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    Re: Cadillac ATS-V is probably getting a twin turbo 3.6 liter V6

    As much as I would like to see a V8 of some type in the ATS-V too, I really don't see it happening. Papa GM is famous for not letting models lower in their respective family outshine higher end models, which what exactly would happen should the ATS-V and new CTS-V share the same V8 engine. They've put a lot of development time and money into this new TT V6 and it'll show up in a lot of models, including the ATS-V I'm thinking. There are some other signs out there too in the aftermarket - Lingenfelter for example have set up pages to cover the already announced TT V6 in the CTS V-sport...and the ATS-V.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruff1977
    Glad this report isn't official. Who knows where Meiners received his info.
    Yes, and with the latest news from GM that the Elmiraj concept is "very doable" and much desired by the dealer network, I find it hard to believe that its TTV8 will be limited to only the Elmiraj and possibly the range-topping sedan. It could also be used in the ATS-V in conjunction with more carbon fiber and aluminum in the body to save weight, like the aluminum hood and plastic mesh griils in the V2. The TTV6 is becoming more identified with the V Sport option, a notch below the V series.

    Jud
    Jud

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