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Cadillac ATS-V Series Forum Discussion, ATS-V wishlist?? in Cadillac V-Series Forums; Originally Posted by pissedoffwookiee agreed...... whatever engine they use, cadillac needs to trounce M3 to turn heads, they know this ...
  1. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by pissedoffwookiee

    agreed......

    whatever engine they use, cadillac needs to trounce M3 to turn heads, they know this because that's exactly what they did with the CTS-V and the last M5 since it worked then....REPEAT, REPEAT, REPEAT...

    a side note.... I like the Camaro very much, but we choose to play with Cadillacs GM's top brand and as such, I don't like the ZL1 having more HP.

    my idea of ideal would be a target of 600 HP for CTS-V and 480-500 HP for ATS-V, the f1 loving geek in me finds the idea of getting this in a high revving ttv6 very interesting, the gear head in me doesn't care as long as it has that level of power.

    the other part of the equation is transmission 8 speed auto 7 speed manual please, and start working on a twin clutch too late for this gen but get to work, and put the paddles on the column.

    lastly, GM needs to buy a failing cell phone maker and gut them take their software and hardware engineering and integrate them into the infotainment group(I'm thinking Nokia) why? because these guys can put amazing infotainment in our pockets for $600 and GM can't in our luxury cars for $1350, I'm even ok with being charged $1350 for a dashboard tablet phone, tech is here to stay, let's get it right, and this could open up a new kind of software hotrodding
    I truly believe the reason behind the HP bump from CTS-V2 to ZL1 was merely timing. Chevrolet had more time to tune the engine even more given the numbers the LSA put out for the V2.

    I do agree with your 'ideal' scenario regarding HP for these upcoming Vs. My guess is the CTS-V3 will get a 'variant' of whatever the new ZR1 shall receive. Definitely over six hundred HP(!)

    Don't forget! CUE is open source and Linux based. One could create a multitude of apps and plug them right in (last I read).

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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Quote Originally Posted by bruff1977 View Post
    I truly believe the reason behind the HP bump from CTS-V2 to ZL1 was merely timing. Chevrolet had more time to tune the engine even more given the numbers the LSA put out for the V2.

    I do agree with your 'ideal' scenario regarding HP for these upcoming Vs. My guess is the CTS-V3 will get a 'variant' of whatever the new ZR1 shall receive. Definitely over six hundred HP(!)

    Don't forget! CUE is open source and Linux based. One could create a multitude of apps and plug them right in (last I read).
    yes this is open source, but a closed ecosystem, GM did put out a SDK for CUE but I'm sure we'll only see a curated GM approved set of apps out of this, but more to the point i was making was better usability, some basic things make no sense, like the home button on the right in north america, the cd player part of CUE tucked in glove box (i'm ok with this) all the way to the right out of reach (not ok with this) it's so far away it might as well be outside in the mirror, or the selected preset becoming a highlighted color is cool, but using the wheel buttons and watching the highlighted color pop off screen (both directions) is puzzling, why highlight at all if only 6 of your sixty presets can communicate that its the selected source at any random moment. (this is in default one line view I know but still silly)

    since this is a wishlist one of my wishes is a supremely bad ass tech setup in the v that lets you play with car setup and is also auxiliary dashboard guages some cool combo of Nissan GTR, Lexus LFA, BMW M5, Gran Turismo

  3. #348
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Quote Originally Posted by pissedoffwookiee View Post
    agreed......

    whatever engine they use, cadillac needs to trounce M3 to turn heads, they know this because that's exactly what they did with the CTS-V and the last M5 since it worked then....REPEAT, REPEAT, REPEAT...

    a side note.... I like the Camaro very much, but we choose to play with Cadillacs GM's top brand and as such, I don't like the ZL1 having more HP.

    my idea of ideal would be a target of 600 HP for CTS-V and 480-500 HP for ATS-V, the f1 loving geek in me finds the idea of getting this in a high revving ttv6 very interesting, the gear head in me doesn't care as long as it has that level of power.

    the other part of the equation is transmission 8 speed auto 7 speed manual please, and start working on a twin clutch too late for this gen but get to work, and put the paddles on the column.

    lastly, GM needs to buy a failing cell phone maker and gut them take their software and hardware engineering and integrate them into the infotainment group(I'm thinking Nokia) why? because these guys can put amazing infotainment in our pockets for $600 and GM can't in our luxury cars for $1350, I'm even ok with being charged $1350 for a dashboard tablet phone, tech is here to stay, let's get it right, and this could open up a new kind of software hotrodding
    Cellular providers have 18 month turn around for their phones. Cars have a much longer life than 18 months, aside from the fact that, infotainment is a small portion of a much bigger product. When people are keeping their phones for 10 or 20 years and spending maybe $50-70 on them (comparatively), then we'll have an argument. Until then, GM is already talking about 4G LTE integration for 2014 which will transform chevy mylink and CUE capabilities.

    There is also such a thing as too much power, and 556hp for a mid sized sedan is right on that edge of what should be done rather than what can be.

    Similarly, 480-500 in a 3600lb ish car is also ridiculous. The ATS needs to play to it's strengths, which are chassis dynamics and handling. Brute force has never won the day. The V was successful because of the entire package, not just the LSA, and I can tell you this, if the F80 M3 is as hyped up as it is so far, Cadillac will need a miracle to pull this one off. with the V2 and the flop on the F10, I can easily see BMW being on the offensive with the M3. They have a nice platform that was muddled by people unwilling to compromise comfort in a bid to latch onto conquest sales. It bit them right in the ass. The 3 series sits somewhere between 3rd and 2nd place these days depending on what you're comparing it to. Which is astonishing.

    Don't be surprised to see extensive use of the word 'carbon' from brakes to body panels in the next M3(if spy photos and info are to be believed), and unlike GM, BMW *does* have a very nice DCT.

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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Quote Originally Posted by M5eater View Post
    ... unlike GM, BMW *does* have a very nice DCT.
    I've never driven a DCT-equipped vehicle, but love the concept. However, someone else posted that they're fine for car magazine tests, but aren't very friendly in a DD on the street.

    I'm wondering why, if such a criticism has some validity, can't they be controlled to provide softer shifts or at least mitigate whatever aspects the poster was referring to?
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    I've never driven a DCT-equipped vehicle, but love the concept. However, someone else posted that they're fine for car magazine tests, but aren't very friendly in a DD on the street.

    I'm wondering why, if such a criticism has some validity, can't they be controlled to provide softer shifts or at least mitigate whatever aspects the poster was referring to?
    There are plenty of soft shifting DCT's. The problem is making it both soft for Drive ability and aggressive for quick precise shifting.

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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Quote Originally Posted by M5eater View Post
    Cellular providers have 18 month turn around for their phones. Cars have a much longer life than 18 months, aside from the fact that, infotainment is a small portion of a much bigger product. When people are keeping their phones for 10 or 20 years and spending maybe $50-70 on them (comparatively), then we'll have an argument. Until then, GM is already talking about 4G LTE integration for 2014 which will transform chevy mylink and CUE capabilities.

    There is also such a thing as too much power, and 556hp for a mid sized sedan is right on that edge of what should be done rather than what can be.

    Similarly, 480-500 in a 3600lb ish car is also ridiculous. The ATS needs to play to it's strengths, which are chassis dynamics and handling. Brute force has never won the day. The V was successful because of the entire package, not just the LSA, and I can tell you this, if the F80 M3 is as hyped up as it is so far, Cadillac will need a miracle to pull this one off. with the V2 and the flop on the F10, I can easily see BMW being on the offensive with the M3. They have a nice platform that was muddled by people unwilling to compromise comfort in a bid to latch onto conquest sales. It bit them right in the ass. The 3 series sits somewhere between 3rd and 2nd place these days depending on what you're comparing it to. Which is astonishing.

    Don't be surprised to see extensive use of the word 'carbon' from brakes to body panels in the next M3(if spy photos and info are to be believed), and unlike GM, BMW *does* have a very nice DCT.
    I don't disagree, with these points, they're all valid and true, but here's my thinking on what i posted:

    you're right about today's car power ratings being over the top, but BMW and Mercedes have helped define luxury as being over the top, and they've been in a power war with each other for a while and today's power is a result of that.

    you're also correct in BMW's sliding to slightly less than the best they used to be, a prime example of this was the CTS-V grabbing much headlines by besting the M5 in some areas where it was pretty much untouchable. Let's face it, Cadillac jumping into their game, is a huge challenge, not the least of which is to be even seen/considered in the same light. also because of the previously mentioned slide/headlines BMW is going to come out swinging as you correctly assessed. so to come out and be a consideration with the Germans, Cadillac needs to be a little bit more to be thought equal. my thoughts are the current M3 has a 414hp high revving v8 with 103.5 hp per liter making it one of the most powerful naturally aspirated smallish engines around. its likely they'll replace this with a 6 cylinder turbo with something like a mid 400's power rating. so in my estimation from a marketing perspective, Cadillac should top this slightly, which is where i arrived at a dreamy 480hp.

    I agree, the chassis and handling are hugely important, the BMW has this in abundance as does the ATS, but it seems to me that great handling yet weaker powered cars seem to lose when it comes to mindshare, the examples that come to mind are the Mazda rx-7/8, miata, Porsche Cayman, and Subaru brz, all these cars have been heralded as some of the supreme cars in the area of chassis and handling, yet they've all been haunted with the 'needs more power' specter, the M3 has both supreme handling and great power, sidestepping these thought altogether. My vision and wish for the ATS-V is to be seen as uncompromising as the BMW, regardless of the fact that BMW has dulled a little.

    as far as tech goes, 4 years ago the Droid was released, that phone debuted with the highest resolution screen, (predating retina iPhone 4 by a few months), has to this day stellar voice command, and it set the GPS/Maps industry on its ear, by giving away top notch turn-by-turn and crowd sourced traffic. that phone had an 800 MHz Texas Instruments processor which is quite powerful and enough to run Linux (android is Linux after all), lets assume for arguments sake the next gen phone hardware was available for manufacturer development at that time, this is the same time of the ATS beginning development, so lets freeze ATS CUE to those specs, that phone and the generation after, (iPhone 4s) work better than CUE does today several years later, i understand the long development time and production volumes are different, but for 4 years development time and over double the cost, something slightly better than what we have is not an unreasonable expectation.

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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    I think you'll find that the last decade of power wars is going to start to come to a close. Cafe and Euro Cap are about to come down like a plauge of locusts. Alot of this has already started to happen with the illusion of performance in mind.

    What's happened is the cars have become lighter, or have gone F/I to upp torque and efficiency. A do more with less attitude. The ATS already has this in the bag with Alpha, so a big hammer of an engine will be both fuel inefficient (personally if I'm going to consider a car like this, it needs to manage at least 15/25 by today's standards) unnecessarily costly and expensive, because it's not just the tooling, it's the supporting the whole car for 6 years or 70K miles until the very last one is sold.

    I agree, the chassis and handling are hugely important, the BMW has this in abundance as does the ATS, but it seems to me that great handling yet weaker powered cars seem to lose when it comes to mindshare, the examples that come to mind are the Mazda rx-7/8, miata, Porsche Cayman, and Subaru brz, all these cars have been heralded as some of the supreme cars in the area of chassis and handling, yet they've all been haunted with the 'needs more power' specter, the M3 has both supreme handling and great power, sidestepping these thought altogether. My vision and wish for the ATS-V is to be seen as uncompromising as the BMW, regardless of the fact that BMW has dulled a little.
    Ahh yes, you are correct in those circumstances, but as Lexus and Cadillac have proven, you don't necessarily need to throw the hammer down on the engine when everything else is set just so.

    The n55 and N54 in the 335i is vastly superior to the LFX 3.6 ATS or the ancient lineup powering the new IS, but both cars handed the BMW it's ass on a plate. The same goes for the 2.0T vs the 328i, which the transmission aside are generally on par with each other, and yet the ATS gets a tip of the hat in most cases.

    You just need something that's somewhat comparable, if everything else is great then that makes up for it.

    as far as tech goes, 4 years ago the Droid was released, that phone debuted with the highest resolution screen, (predating retina iPhone 4 by a few months), has to this day stellar voice command, and it set the GPS/Maps industry on its ear, by giving away top notch turn-by-turn and crowd sourced traffic. that phone had an 800 MHz Texas Instruments processor which is quite powerful and enough to run Linux (android is Linux after all), lets assume for arguments sake the next gen phone hardware was available for manufacturer development at that time, this is the same time of the ATS beginning development, so lets freeze ATS CUE to those specs, that phone and the generation after, (iPhone 4s) work better than CUE does today several years later, i understand the long development time and production volumes are different, but for 4 years development time and over double the cost, something slightly better than what we have is not an unreasonable expectation.
    I can see where you're coming from now then, buy a cheap company to build you something decent, but I would remind you that phones are created by technology companies of which very few actually just build phones. The software that works so well is made by Apple and Google, and I must reinforce that none of these companies design hardware cycles for the length of time a car sees, or the condition a cars sees, and the ones that make the software, make it one of their primary products.

    Panasonic is probably the closest any computer manufacturer can come in it's design of laptops that have something close to an automotive environment. Toughbooks take years to develop in order to pass testing and validation which appeal to it's buyers. The end result is that your 5K laptop buys you technology that's already from the previous generation of hardware. Even toughbooks are not designed to last for a decade or sit in 110 degree heat, take the drivetrain vibrations of a 7K RPM shift or the shock of a truck-eating pothole.

    CUE is more the result of a development time that is twice the length of this rather than GM not knowing what they're doing. Hardware is easy, it's software that's the hard part, and the software that works which you suggest they take a page from, also is backed by companies with 10 fold the net worth of GM global combined, they also don't have to design a car in the mean time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M5eater
    I think you'll find that the last decade of power wars is going to start to come to a close. Cafe and Euro Cap are about to come down like a plauge of locusts. Alot of this has already started to happen with the illusion of performance in mind.

    What's happened is the cars have become lighter, or have gone F/I to upp torque and efficiency. A do more with less attitude. The ATS already has this in the bag with Alpha, so a big hammer of an engine will be both fuel inefficient (personally if I'm going to consider a car like this, it needs to manage at least 15/25 by today's standards) unnecessarily costly and expensive, because it's not just the tooling, it's the supporting the whole car for 6 years or 70K miles until the very last one is sold.

    Ahh yes, you are correct in those circumstances, but as Lexus and Cadillac have proven, you don't necessarily need to throw the hammer down on the engine when everything else is set just so.

    The n55 and N54 in the 335i is vastly superior to the LFX 3.6 ATS or the ancient lineup powering the new IS, but both cars handed the BMW it's ass on a plate. The same goes for the 2.0T vs the 328i, which the transmission aside are generally on par with each other, and yet the ATS gets a tip of the hat in most cases.

    You just need something that's somewhat comparable, if everything else is great then that makes up for it.

    I can see where you're coming from now then, buy a cheap company to build you something decent, but I would remind you that phones are created by technology companies of which very few actually just build phones. The software that works so well is made by Apple and Google, and I must reinforce that none of these companies design hardware cycles for the length of time a car sees, or the condition a cars sees, and the ones that make the software, make it one of their primary products.

    Panasonic is probably the closest any computer manufacturer can come in it's design of laptops that have something close to an automotive environment. Toughbooks take years to develop in order to pass testing and validation which appeal to it's buyers. The end result is that your 5K laptop buys you technology that's already from the previous generation of hardware. Even toughbooks are not designed to last for a decade or sit in 110 degree heat, take the drivetrain vibrations of a 7K RPM shift or the shock of a truck-eating pothole.

    CUE is more the result of a development time that is twice the length of this rather than GM not knowing what they're doing. Hardware is easy, it's software that's the hard part, and the software that works which you suggest they take a page from, also is backed by companies with 10 fold the net worth of GM global combined, they also don't have to design a car in the mean time.
    Look at what happened between 1965 and now. Very interesting. History repeats itself. Sorry, I gave up my bellbottom leisure suits. Is that the current latest-greatest "thing"; so what is it is for cars? Some things never change. Realize that "fashion" controls most of us more than substance. Thank God for real car guys. Think about it.

    Jud
    Jud

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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    My gosh, i'm enjoying this intelligent debate, I tip my hat to you sir....

    I think you'll find that the last decade of power wars is going to start to come to a close. Cafe and Euro Cap are about to come down like a plauge of locusts
    Agreed, the flip side of this, is there's only so much power that is reasonable to put in untrained hands on public roads, My friends new M5 disappoints him, he always wanted one yet one thing or another has had him buy escalades, 7 series, 550i, A5, anyways he finally gets one and its so ungodly powerful, that its lost a lot of its fun, limits so high its boring unless driven way illegally, and you always catch up with traffic right before things get interesting, he feels he would have been most satisfied with an M5 two M5's ago, and misses his 750li m-sport that he traded in on the M5. like the saying goes "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow"

    You just need something that's somewhat comparable, if everything else is great then that makes up for it.
    I would agree with this in an ideal world, yet what i hear too often is "this is a Cadillac?!!!!!" this surprise in strangers at random places i go tells me that the word isn't out that Cadillac is making these types of cars (they are relatively new at it), which leads me to the thought that the value may not be there because of this. so price/performance being equal buyers are more likely to buy what they're familiar with as a sports sedan. so a tweak in the value, same for slightly less money, or more for same money, might turn heads Cadillac way.

    I would remind you that phones are created by technology companies of which very few actually just build phones. The software that works so well is made by Apple and Google, and I must reinforce that none of these companies design hardware cycles for the length of time a car sees, or the condition a cars sees, and the ones that make the software, make it one of their primary products.
    CUE is more the result of a development time that is twice the length of this rather than GM not knowing what they're doing. Hardware is easy, it's software that's the hard part, and the software that works which you suggest they take a page from, also is backed by companies with 10 fold the net worth of GM global combined, they also don't have to design a car in the mean time.
    Alan Mullaly (ford CEO, ex Boeing exec) is quoted in an interview with Leo Laporte at CES as saying when asked why he was at CES something like 'the modern car company in this day and age is a tech company and its important to keep up'.

    and net worth, is just numbers on a ledger, it's not the people and talent, which when you compare Apple/Google the highest valued companies engineering staff, to GM's it is Apple/Google that is dwarfed, keep in mind, GM built the lunar rover (Delco), they're one of the owners of Direct tv (owned by Hughes, which is owned by Raytheon, which is partly owned by GM), Raytheon, Onstar, XM, not to mention their traditional engine, chassis, manufacturing, engineers. the sheer talent they could tap into is mind boggling. GM's ceo could practically pick up the phone and ask for the software that could enable him to target a fly and knock a wing off of it with a slingshot from across the a parking lot, all while streaming audio to just about every GM car with XM and have a video feed to sat tv viewers. my thought of buying a phone company is to bolster them in the area of consumer electronics, and help focus GM in the Mullaly defined arena of cars as tech.

    EDIT... that being said, i recall several years ago reading that Google has more engineering PHD's on staff than anybody, so you have a very good point on that front.

    EDIT #2

    just stumbled across this

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-575...your-next-car/

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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    My gosh, i'm enjoying this intelligent debate, I tip my hat to you sir....
    As am I my good sir!


    Agreed, the flip side of this, is there's only so much power that is reasonable to put in untrained hands on public roads, My friends new M5 disappoints him, he always wanted one yet one thing or another has had him buy escalades, 7 series, 550i, A5, anyways he finally gets one and its so ungodly powerful, that its lost a lot of its fun, limits so high its boring unless driven way illegally, and you always catch up with traffic right before things get interesting, he feels he would have been most satisfied with an M5 two M5's ago, and misses his 750li m-sport that he traded in on the M5. like the saying goes "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow"
    That is, exactly why I sold my V for my little 2.0T ATS, and is one of the top reasons I disapprove of another over the top super sedan.

    I would agree with this in an ideal world, yet what i hear too often is "this is a Cadillac?!!!!!" this surprise in strangers at random places i go tells me that the word isn't out that Cadillac is making these types of cars (they are relatively new at it), which leads me to the thought that the value may not be there because of this. so price/performance being equal buyers are more likely to buy what they're familiar with as a sports sedan. so a tweak in the value, same for slightly less money, or more for same money, might turn heads Cadillac way.
    You're absolutely right, and the reason they're still shocked is because really Cadillac's brand revival only starting gaining a lot of momentum in 2008 with the 2nd generation CTS and SRX, we've had a good 4-5 years of cars that are good as they are rather than decent first attempts. With the ATS, things have kicked up a notch into cars that are out right better than the competition, and we just haven't had a lot of time for that to sink into conquest sales brains. Rebuilding a car brand should be measured in decades, because that's about as long as it took Audi to get into the position it is now.

    I think you'll find however that unless BMW really sits down and has a chat with the finance people to get some amazing rates on the next M3, or they decide to take a loss on it, that there will still be a comfortable distance between an M3 and an ATS-V. A lot of the items I spoke about earlier for the M3 are going to very pricey options.

    my thought of buying a phone company is to bolster them in the area of consumer electronics, and help focus GM in the Mullaly defined arena of cars as tech.
    I hear you, but let me propose this. Fundamentally the infotainment in a car is more akin to a PC than a Cell phone. Nokia doesn't actually do anything except pick OTS components and wrap them in a nice package. Similar to what GM is doing now. What they will be able to bring to the table is maybe some insight into ergonomics of the unit and some design philosophy. Infotainment however, doesn't have the space requirements of a phone, it doesn't really need to look pretty because that's the job of the interior design people, it doesn't have the battery life requirements, it has multiple external i/o ports (most cars have a DVD and a few USB/ 3.5mm jacks) it has a large viewing display, a big internal HDD but critically; is usually non-serviceable once installed.

    apps for infotainment and customer support after the sale are the next logical steps, and I believe GM releasing SDK for mylink and CUE will eventually bring some of that to us in the next few years with 4G LTE integration and even with existing CUE though USB installs. Thus I'm uncertain of what Nokia could contribute to this.

    What I believe GM should do, is buy up a small to medium sized semiconductor. Infotainment as I pointed out, suffers a lag from design to end-user of about 2-3 years. Upgrade able infotainment may be the next logical step. People buy $600 phones once every 1.5 years because of hardware, plain and simple, my phone has a bigger zillion pixel screen than yours, or has .3 mp more camera resolution, ect, ect.. The Operating systems from Google and Apple have been backwards compatible with old phones for years. Why not $1200 for a few new features, better hardware or ect in your car that's only 2-3 years old but still has some life in it? That's where a semiconductor, like Via or AMD would come in. They have the infrastructure in place to supply GM and the auto industry in general, with standardized hardware that can be put to market in months rather than years, they have the capacity to do it, and with the death of the PC looming and AMD's financial situation, it would be a boon to the overall failing industry.

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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    What I believe GM should do, is buy up a small to medium sized semiconductor
    this is another interesting idea, never thought of that, what i was thinking with a company like Nokia is the software, I believe CUE is good, hardware wise (with some quirks), but usability is all wrong, Nokia has extensive OS development skills, between Symbian, and Meego, these are excellent products, they were just foolish and let both Apple and Google into their game, and they got eaten alive for it. even windows phone is an excellent product (it makes IOS look long in tooth), it just lacks an ecosystem so no one takes it seriously, but fords touch, fiat Blue&me and Kia UVO are Microsoft powered, so theyre a real player here, and the relationship with nokia could be a plus if they were purchased. also they could have some real synergies with onstar, which is currently powered by Verizon but will be AT&T in 2015 whith the LTE wifi cars. Lastly my thinking was bringing in some UI hotshots.

  12. #357
    bruff1977 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    This may seem a bit zealous, but I think Vs should get different keys, or in the case of the newer Cadillacs, fobs. Not really fond of the rectangular fob. Or maybe just a big V logo instead of the wreath and crest.

  13. #358
    pissedoffwookiee's Avatar
    pissedoffwookiee is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Quote Originally Posted by bruff1977 View Post
    This may seem a bit zealous, but I think Vs should get different keys, or in the case of the newer Cadillacs, fobs. Not really fond of the rectangular fob. Or maybe just a big V logo instead of the wreath and crest.
    I like that idea, everything about a V should be a special experience, even picking the key up off your dresser in the morning

  14. #359
    pissedoffwookiee's Avatar
    pissedoffwookiee is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Quote Originally Posted by bruff1977 View Post
    This may seem a bit zealous, but I think Vs should get different keys, or in the case of the newer Cadillacs, fobs. Not really fond of the rectangular fob. Or maybe just a big V logo instead of the wreath and crest.
    I like that idea, everything about a V should be a special experience, even picking the key up off your dresser in the morning

  15. #360
    JFJr's Avatar
    JFJr is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Quote Originally Posted by pissedoffwookiee

    I like that idea, everything about a V should be a special experience, even picking the key up off your dresser in the morning
    That's why new cost reduction of mass produced carbon fiber and other technology in the C7 can benefit both Cadillac and Chevrolet. Both brands use the best components if it makes sense not to develop them in-house. Weight differences vs. performance gains could be a part of the distinguishing factors. Both marques could benefit. Luxury with performance can separate the brands without muddying the water. But then excitement should be part of the top performance models, and that's where the TTV6 falls short in a halo car. It's really not that special.

    Jud
    Jud

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