Ergo, it's all about Marketing.
If it were between the self-masterbatory threads and replies on M5board or the V2 section on CF.. I'll take CF all day.Quote:
It really is about marketing to the masses. But for those of us who fell in love with the original V (first gen CTS-V) the V means much more. To us, it's kind of an exclusive band of brothers. Or at least it was.
Aside from that, the community difference I would say is overstated after looking at both forums for a bit longer. The V1 crowd might be a bit more laid back or communicative, certinally less ego and more vette owner esque and maybe they know a few people around here personally. V2 people are a bit younger, typically come from other cars and are mostly starting new relationships here, but I still see 'groups' of people that know each other personally or arrange Get togethers.
V1 people bought a V because it was a Cadillac with a Vette motor, it was almost a niche car.
V2 people bought a V because it was a 4door sedan that could beat an M5 or E63, and it had an automatic, which opened it up to younger people that might not have manual experience or prefer the idea of a paddle shift transmission. It was a car that forced people to start taking Cadillac seriously.
The difference is the V1 sold ~ 10.5K units, the V2 will might triple that, it's natural that you get more 'passing through till the lease is up or the next hot thing is out' when you have a higher volume car. Give it a few more years, and I bet you'll start to see the V2 community more closely resemble the V1 community as the fad-buyers move on and only people that *really* loved the car stay behind.
The V1 borders on cult car. It started a new game, a super sedan from America that many could afford. Like the original SHO. Guys who bought them tend to really love them. Not like the use them, abuse them, buy a different color and do it all over again like the buyers in V2.
Like the old SHO, the V1 was an M5 beater. It was standard only and it was good enough to make people leave their favorite marques to get one...
Let's get back on topic with the ATS-V wish list - unless we have nothing further to add...
Well, glad to have started a conversation, but it seems that I was thinking from a different perspective.
There's a lot more difference than engine between a car with a top speed of 165 MPH and 200 MPH.
The ATS has the potential to be a cult-car that the 1st gen is/was, but I can also easily see it being a mix of people like with the V2. Espically since the M3 Sedan will not come in F3 flavor, and that leaves the B8 RS4(if audi even imports it over here..which is always in question), C63 or (presumably) the ATS-VQuote:
Actually, now that you mention it, I'd be interested in hearing it from a perspective of things that folks have liked about previous V series they want to be sure that they see in the ATS-V.
Which is my point. I hope they don't go overboard with the ATS-V just to say GM has their own M3. If I want an M3, I will buy an M3. I don't want a BMW. I want a V.
what you talking about willis? The V2 has another button for the soft/firm setting on the suspension over the V1, and variable steering, that's it. The E60/F10 M5 and E63 AMG have 20 different acyonyms just to describe the different eletronic nannies keeping you on the road, nevermind the adjustable shift firmness, throttle response, diff lockup , engine output control, ect.. that the F10 Has. The V2 is practicallythe village idiot of the midsized super sedan market, and the ATS will likely have no more than the V2 has right now. Aside from the third magneride setting presumably, and *fingers crossed* for launch control or something similar. That's what Cadillac's targeting as mentioned previously (or in another thread) back to basics and grappling onto the purest drivers car that BMW's forgotten how to build. Plus, it makes things cheaper too when you're not paying for 5 different sensors per wheel and the software, control modules and wiring to go with it.Quote:
I think discussion about V ownership is relevant. At least, my hopes that the ATS-V is more of a back-to-basics sport sedan like the first generation CTS-V. The second gen V is an amazing machine, no doubt. But it lacks some of the purity of the V1.
And, personally, I don't want a car that's too refined. That's sort of the way I see the V2, at least from what I recall of OldRoadDawg's auto trans V2 for the two miles I drove it. It's hard to define because I WANT luxury, but I don't want it overly refined.
As far as straying off the topic a bit, it's the last seven years of V1 ownership experience that forms many of these wish-list items for me, thus as far as the discussion of V1 and V2 cars goes, it's pertinent. The V1 community has really changed from guys who got a cat-back were the trailblazers to guys who have a stroker motor with a 10" rearend are almost invoke a yawn.
That's sort of a given for any LS powered car. There's so much aftermarket you can go crazy without blowing up the savings account. Personally the only thing you're loosing is braggin rights on an internet forum, which I couldnt care less about; you're not running into 427 CTS-V's on the street everywhere you look. However, the ATS-V will break the trend without an LS powered engine, which then comes more expensive aftermarket and limited power increases, which doesn't make for a good trade-off IMO. I'd rather *not* hand over a $30K check to Dinan for an extra .7L and 130HP.Quote:
The V1 community has really changed from guys who got a cat-back were the trailblazers to guys who have a stroker motor with a 10" rearend are almost invoke a yawn.
You don't. You hand over a few hundred dollars to <insert vendor here>. If the ATS-V has a twin turbo V6, it'll be easy and inexpensive to modify - just like a TT Supra or 335i.Quote:
Originally Posted by M5eater
As for keeping the discussion on topic - V-Series talk is fine. I felt it was going to go away from even that. In any event, just take my request to stay on topic as a reminder to do so. No big deal.
I was going for some dramatic effect there, if aftermarket is similar to what I came from (a B5 S4) then I would be mostly happy. The problem is those cars have depreciated into nothing and an ATS-V would be a 60K vehicle with (presumably) a 1-off engine.Quote:
You don't. You hand over a few hundred dollars to <insert vendor here>. If the ATS-V has a twin turbo V6, it'll be easy and inexpensive to modify - just like a TT Supra or 335i.
I'm all ready for it. :p (it might be down for a few minutes. I need to update the software)