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Cadillac ATS-V Series Forum Discussion, ATS-V wishlist?? in Cadillac V-Series Forums; Originally Posted by lunarx I certianly would pay extra for the lightening. However, I would not want to see lightening ...
  1. #256
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Quote Originally Posted by lunarx View Post
    I certianly would pay extra for the lightening.
    However, I would not want to see lightening used as an excuse for a substandard engine.

    Suposedly they already designed the car to be lightweignt, so I wasn't expecting any chassis or suspension components to need changing.
    I'm sure the V drivetrain will be heavier and add weight.
    Even so, that can (and should be) be offset, as you pointed out.

    I still think all they "need" to do (over the ATS) is put a V8, V2 Brembos, V2 LSD, Performance Suspension, offset some of the weight gain and they would have one hell of an ATS-V.
    Any less is pathetic.
    Any more is icing on the cake.
    V2 brakes are way out of proportion for a 3400-3600lb vehicle.

    They're practically race-ready in a 4300lb vehicle.

  2. #257
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Quote Originally Posted by lunarx View Post
    I certianly would pay extra for the lightening.
    However, I would not want to see lightening used as an excuse for a substandard engine.

    Suposedly they already designed the car to be lightweignt, so I wasn't expecting any chassis or suspension components to need changing.
    I'm sure the V drivetrain will be heavier and add weight.
    Even so, that can (and should be) be offset, as you pointed out.

    I still think all they "need" to do (over the ATS) is put a V8, V2 Brembos, V2 LSD, Performance Suspension, offset some of the weight gain and they would have one hell of an ATS-V.
    Any less is pathetic.
    Any more is icing on the cake.
    V2 brakes are way out of proportion for a 3400-3600lb vehicle.

    They're practically race-ready in the 4300lb vehicle.

    Same goes for everything else.

  3. #258
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH View Post
    If they can keep the weight down, they won't need the V2's heavy duty brakes, drivetrain, and suspension.
    Quote Originally Posted by M5eater View Post
    V2 brakes are way out of proportion for a 3400-3600lb vehicle.

    They're practically race-ready in the 4300lb vehicle.

    Same goes for everything else.
    I never thought I would hear such talk on a V forum.

    If you cant race hard enough to want V2 brakes, don't spoil it for the rest of us.
    Also, don't tell me that at $375 a caliper, for V2 brakes, is too expensive for a V buyer.

    3000lb is not all that light to think you don't need the best brakes you can get.
    The 911S uses 13.4" rotors and its a 3100lb 2 passenger vehicle.
    The ATS-V is going to weight 500lb more and has the capability to carry 4 passengers and cargo.
    If 14.6" V2 brakes are sitting on a parts bin shelf, they should go on this car, its a no-brainier.

    Cheap V2 brakes would be an extremely cost effective way to drop lap times and run more laps, without overheating your brakes.
    The car could be a real killer at the track for very little extra cost.

    I thought that was the whole idea for this car.
    Am I wrong?

  4. #259
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Assuming we are talking about my theoretical 3400 lbs ATS-V, I doubt the 6 pots would offer any performance increase over the 4 pots. Ford and GM feel rear Brembos aren't even needed. Which I think is wrong, if only for aesthetic reasons.

    The 6 pots look awesome, but they are heavier. And the whole mission of the ATS in general, is reduce weight. And the V should be even more so. Especially when it comes to unsprung weight. I think that's the whole idea of the car.

  5. #260
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Have you compared pad sizes from V1 4-Pot to V2 6-Pot?
    The increase in pad area is in the range of double.
    That extra pad area is extra heat capacity for high performance driving.

    Brakes are one area where it's not wise to skimp to save a few pounds.
    The increased braking performance will lower lap times far more than saving a few pounds will.

    No, you won't see much drop in initial braking performance, but with sustained, fade-free laps you would not give up those V2 brakes for anything.
    For drivers who like to late brake, V2 brakes are even more essential.

    I really don't want the ATS-V to be a mediocere "good enough" car.
    I want it to be as bad-ass as it can, within its target price range.
    I'm not asking for anything GM cant easily do with current in house technology.

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH
    Assuming we are talking about my theoretical 3400 lbs ATS-V, I doubt the 6 pots would offer any performance increase over the 4 pots. Ford and GM feel rear Brembos aren't even needed. Which I think is wrong, if only for aesthetic reasons.

    The 6 pots look awesome, but they are heavier. And the whole mission of the ATS in general, is reduce weight. And the V should be even more so. Especially when it comes to unsprung weight. I think that's the whole idea of the car.
    They're heavier? You sure?

  7. #262
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Bicycle racers know '1 lb. off the wheel is worth 2 off the body'....I wonder whether the slightly increased weight of the 6 pot Brembo's isn't overshadowed by the increased braking performance? At some point the 2 curves, braking performance....weight savings(# of pots), will intersect>>>maybe Cadillac should just make their own ATS_V brakes with better or comparable specs...We know they can....

  8. #263
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    They're heavier? You sure?
    I am assuming. Bigger caliper made of the same material=heavier. Simple physics. Unless the 6 pot calipers are made from steel with a lower specific density.

    As for the increased swept area; there comes a point when more braking force does NOT equal better braking. If you were to put big brembos on a car that weighs, say, 2000 lbs, what do you think would happen? You would constantly be locking up the wheels, or overworking the braking system.

  9. #264
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH View Post
    I am assuming. Bigger caliper made of the same material=heavier. Simple physics. Unless the 6 pot calipers are made from steel with a lower specific density.

    As for the increased swept area; there comes a point when more braking force does NOT equal better braking. If you were to put big brembos on a car that weighs, say, 2000 lbs, what do you think would happen? You would constantly be locking up the wheels, or overworking the braking system.
    Even with V2 brakes you would be far away from the point of having too much brakes for a 4000lb car (wet w/ driver & passengers).
    Yes, bigger rotors weigh more, but if that bothers you than you are welcome to opt for the ZR1 brakes with Carbon Composite Rotors.
    Although, 2 Piece Aluminum Hub Rotors, like on AMG/Porsche, will keep weight reasonable over all cast rotors like on the V2.

  10. #265
    marktanner is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    I have a V2, and it has great brakes, but an ATS-V that weighs 20% less will stop equally well with 20% smaller brakes, and the reduction in brake weight will help keep the total weight of the car down, and will also improve ride AND handling. It will also improve acceleration, and aid fuel efficiency. Reducing unsprung weight is always beneficial, except that sometimes it costs more. Ask any racer about the benefits of reducing unsprung weight. It's not subtle.

  11. #266
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    I think people are afraid the ATS-V will be "too good", if it gets V2 brakes.
    It will be "too good" if it gets a V8.
    Worried that it will beat the V2?
    That is exactly what I want it to do.

    Reducing unsprung weight is not going to improve laptimes as much as fade free dependable brakes will.
    You need to take it in context, shaving a few pounds of unsprung weight, when the sprung weight is 3600+ pounds is not going to yeild any significant improvement.
    Brakes are stoping that massive sprung weight, not the unsprung weight.
    You can gain car lengths in the braking zone with brakes that can survive the abuse.
    Trust me, if you had the improved braking power of V2 brakes on a light car you would love it.
    I don't hear Z06/911/GTR owners complaining that their brakes are too powerfull and that they want to fit smaller brakes to reduce unsprung weight.

    Now even the ZR1/AMG/Porsche guys lucky enough to get the Carbon Composite Brakes opt to go back to steel rotors (and increase unsprung weight) when they get serious about tracking their cars.

    Why?
    Because they get better pad options for steel rotors allowing them to brake even harder than before, which results in even faster lap times.
    Also the cost of carbon rotors is insane and the benifits are not there unless they step up to an even higher price point of carbon construction reserved for very high end racing efforts.

    It seems like too many of you are determined to be slow.
    If that is what the Cadillac demographic is about now, so be it.

  12. #267
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    lunarx, I understand all your points. They are all valid. For someone who tracks his car. You are in a very, very small percentage of people. Almost all ATS-V sold will never, ever see a racetrack.

    It doesn't matter how good GM makes the ATS-V; face it, guys like you are going to mod it anyway. It's in your nature. You HAVE to.
    You don't even have the stock engine in your V, so I am not sure why you are so concerned. If you so desire, you will be able to drop an LS7 in an ATS-V. GM designed the Alpha to hold a big V8. You will be able to mount whatever Brembo or Baers you want.

    If GM makes the ATS-V perfect, what is going to be left to mod?

  13. #268
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    It's time for Cadillac/GM to part ways with Bose for their stereo. I have owned a Cadillac CTS-V and while i loved the car the stereo system was really pathetic by comparison to other premium vehicles. My wife and I recently test drove a new SRX and again the Bose stereo sounded very anemic. By contrast a friend of mine has a BMW 550i and the sound system in his car is phenomenal. Come on GM ditch Bose - anyone who knows anything about serious stereo will tell you that Bose is all hype/marketing. Put a decent stereo system in the ATS and I may buy the V version of this car - otherwise I'll probably consider a BMW 550 or M3.
    concorso and concorso like this.

  14. #269
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Ditto on the Bose. I test drove a Premium 3.6, and it's Bose isn't nearly as good as the Bose in the CTS, which was never fantastic in the first place. I know weight is a consideration, but I would rather gain a few pounds and have great sound.

    Another wish: ditch the electric steering for the V, and give us the steering feel back.

    ----------

    Ditto on the Bose. I test drove a Premium 3.6, and it's Bose isn't nearly as good as the Bose in the CTS, which was never fantastic in the first place. I know weight is a consideration, but I would rather gain a few pounds and have great sound.

    Another wish: ditch the electric steering for the V, and give us the steering feel back.
    concorso and concorso like this.

  15. #270
    Aggression is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: ATS-V wishlist??

    Quote Originally Posted by marktanner View Post
    Ditto on the Bose. I test drove a Premium 3.6, and it's Bose isn't nearly as good as the Bose in the CTS, which was never fantastic in the first place. I know weight is a consideration, but I would rather gain a few pounds and have great sound.

    Another wish: ditch the electric steering for the V, and give us the steering feel back.

    ----------

    Ditto on the Bose. I test drove a Premium 3.6, and it's Bose isn't nearly as good as the Bose in the CTS, which was never fantastic in the first place. I know weight is a consideration, but I would rather gain a few pounds and have great sound.

    Another wish: ditch the electric steering for the V, and give us the steering feel back.
    I would almost bet that if GM decided to ditch the electronic steering for hydro, they would steal lots of "M" afficinados. But we both know that GM would never due it....

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