Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6 - Page 4
cadillac ats forums cadillac ats forums
CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 138
Like Tree10Likes
Cadillac ATS-V Series Forum Discussion, Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6 in Cadillac ATS Discussion Forums; You guys clearly have no idea what you would be giving up going from a modernized LS to a TT6. ...
  1. #46
    lunarx's Avatar
    lunarx is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 05 Mallett 427 CTS-V, 10 E63 AMG
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,728
    You guys clearly have no idea what you would be giving up going from a modernized LS to a TT6.

    Turbo Bearing Failures
    Oil Comsumption
    Turbo Lag
    Boost Hose Leaks
    Cracked Exhaust Manifolds
    Overheating
    Detonation worries

    And when you mod, more lag from;
    Bigger Turbos
    Oversize Front Mount Intercoolers
    Also,Reduced Airflow to Radiator from IC above.

    To end up the same HP as a smartly modded LS could give you NA with headers & cam with less weight and complexity and smoother power delivery.

    For the serious modders a sleeved block to 427+ CI or a TVS can be added for the End Game.


    Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

  2. #47
    thebigjimsho's Avatar
    thebigjimsho is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): ZIP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    In the barrel of a gun...
    Posts
    48,827

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

    Quote Originally Posted by rand49er View Post
    Keeps the riffraff out.


    As much as I like the LS3, it's inevitable that we're going to see the four-valve, overhead cam, smaller displacement motors replacing the cam-in-the-block motors in the future. Maybe the time hasn't quite come ... I don't know, but it's going to happen. With enough grunt, I'd welcome a V6TT ... as long as a manual trans was offered with it.
    I disagree. While I think the LS can go smaller with DI, I don't think it needs to go DOHC, even though I've always loved those type of engines.

    I think a 5.3 DI LS motor putting out 450hp in an ATS-V sounds nice. Especially if you can rev it a little higher. Then add a tall 6th like the V1...


    -- We miss you, JD (Dirt_Cheap_Fleetwood)


  3. #48
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Age
    39
    Posts
    37,475

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

    Now you are complicating things further. If they rob the LS of a liter, they better not produce a peaky engine like Ford's new 5.0. I have seen the torque curves of both stock and modified engines, and they are very peaky. While I only drove the GT a few miles, it was enough to know that much more shifting is required than with LS3's relatively flat curve. While this won't matter to the majority of owners (who opt for the slushbox) it matters to me as I commute 90 miles/day, and much less shifting is required from the V1 and SS than my last manual V6 car.

    I would have to think that if GM goes with a TTV6 in the ATS-V, it would be a bi-turbo like the 335 engine. There is supposedly no turbo lag to speak of, and a pretty broad torque curve. Although I am no expert on the BMW engine beyond what folks have told me.

  4. #49
    Lord Cadillac is offline Cadillac Maniac
    Automobile(s): Cadillac Escalade
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Royal Palm Beach, Florida
    Age
    42
    Posts
    13,572

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

    The twin turbo 335i has VERY little turbo lag. I really didn't notice any at all - most of the time. Every so often there was a tiny bit - but I was tuned and could have used catless downpipes with the added power.
    Please help us keep CadillacOwners.com online. Become a Site Supporter today. You'll get more than a "thank you" in return.



    In loving memory of Angelo Anthony Quagliaralillo... Rest in peace..

  5. #50
    thebigjimsho's Avatar
    thebigjimsho is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): ZIP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    In the barrel of a gun...
    Posts
    48,827

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH View Post
    Now you are complicating things further. If they rob the LS of a liter, they better not produce a peaky engine like Ford's new 5.0. I have seen the torque curves of both stock and modified engines, and they are very peaky. While I only drove the GT a few miles, it was enough to know that much more shifting is required than with LS3's relatively flat curve. While this won't matter to the majority of owners (who opt for the slushbox) it matters to me as I commute 90 miles/day, and much less shifting is required from the V1 and SS than my last manual V6 car.

    I would have to think that if GM goes with a TTV6 in the ATS-V, it would be a bi-turbo like the 335 engine. There is supposedly no turbo lag to speak of, and a pretty broad torque curve. Although I am no expert on the BMW engine beyond what folks have told me.
    A 5.3 liter LS would have 93% of the displacement of the LS6, which is a much more enjoyable powerplant to drive than the LS2. That's not including DI, which should get you well above the LS6 output before factoring anything else. The LS will have had a decade of improvements since the LS6 and will no doubt be lighter, have lighter and more efficient parts and could even be paired with a 7 speed manual.

    You bitch too much. You deal with absolutes and worst case scenarios of right now and apply them to unknown future tech. Let it go. You said you're not getting one so who cares?


    -- We miss you, JD (Dirt_Cheap_Fleetwood)


  6. #51
    Lord Cadillac is offline Cadillac Maniac
    Automobile(s): Cadillac Escalade
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Royal Palm Beach, Florida
    Age
    42
    Posts
    13,572

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

    When all is said and done, we're going to have to deal with whatever GM gives us. The few of us in this forum aren't going to have any impact at all on GMs decision on which engine to go with. If we had 10,000 people here talking about the ATS-V and what's coming, we might have some pull. Unfortunately, it's impossible to get a large enough group of Cadillac owners and enthusiasts together to make any difference.
    Please help us keep CadillacOwners.com online. Become a Site Supporter today. You'll get more than a "thank you" in return.



    In loving memory of Angelo Anthony Quagliaralillo... Rest in peace..

  7. #52
    lunarx's Avatar
    lunarx is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 05 Mallett 427 CTS-V, 10 E63 AMG
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,728
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Cadillac View Post
    The twin turbo 335i has VERY little turbo lag. I really didn't notice any at all - most of the time. Every so often there was a tiny bit - but I was tuned and could have used catless downpipes with the added power.
    Don't ban me for saying this, but
    that engine did not compare well to even an LS6.
    Stock V1s would walk away from 335s easily.

    As for no lag, there was no power either.
    Small Twin Turbos and low intercooler system volume do minimize lag but also limit top end power.

    I like turbos as much as anyone, but they work better on a V8 than on a V6.

    Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

  8. #53
    lunarx's Avatar
    lunarx is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 05 Mallett 427 CTS-V, 10 E63 AMG
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,728
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Cadillac View Post
    When all is said and done, we're going to have to deal with whatever GM gives us. The few of us in this forum aren't going to have any impact at all on GMs decision on which engine to go with. If we had 10,000 people here talking about the ATS-V and what's coming, we might have some pull. Unfortunately, it's impossible to get a large enough group of Cadillac owners and enthusiasts together to make any difference.
    I hope they do the right thing and build on what the V has proven to do well, which is mostly owed to the great LS power plant.

    Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

  9. #54
    M5eater's Avatar
    M5eater is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): ATS 2.0T RWD FE3
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Age
    26
    Posts
    4,489

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

    I would have to think that if GM goes with a TTV6 in the ATS-V, it would be a bi-turbo like the 335 engine. There is supposedly no turbo lag to speak of, and a pretty broad torque curve. Although I am no expert on the BMW engine beyond what folks have told me.
    the APB S4 engine, Ecoboost, N54 and 300ZX engines *all* have super-flt torque curves. It's only these small I-4 turbos that have the 'turbo-lag' anymore, and that's dissapearing too. Need I mention the F10 M5 is a TTV8 and has a flatter curve than the LSA, *and* it makes full torque @ 1500rpms?

    You guys clearly have no idea what you would be giving up going from a modernized LS to a TT6.

    Turbo Bearing Failures-- keeping aside that the APB I keep referring to was a cramped bay with crappy borg warner K03's, the only time people blew them is when they abused them.
    Oil Comsumption- clearly, you've never owned an LS engine :P. Besides, when I sold it @ 130K, my S4 didn't burn a drop of oil.
    Turbo Lag -- see post above
    Boost Hose Leaks--fact of F/I turbo life- can'targue against this disadvantage
    Cracked Exhaust Manifolds- The only turbo car I've owned which had cracked Manifolds was my mazaspeed protege, which was basicly a 2L I4 that was adapted to be F/I.
    Overheating-- I really don't think so, we manage fine on the stock LS oil cooler, I would imagine a bigger one being used on a TT. 1.8L Civics and the N54 had overheating problems, and the 3.0T Audi's had water pump problems, all of them fixed prompty, and all of them typical new-engine growning pains.
    Detonation worries-- you can have that with a bad tune on an LS
    And when you mod, more lag from;
    Bigger Turbos-- *maybe..* is all I'll say. you can both go to a more effecient turbo *and* experience no percieveable lag.
    Oversize Front Mount Intercoolers--- I've really never noticed any increased lag, and the S4 had dual ER SMIC's with cores twice as thick as war and peace
    Also,Reduced Airflow to Radiator from IC above.-- note SMIC's?-- not that I think it really matters a whole lot.

  10. #55
    Lord Cadillac is offline Cadillac Maniac
    Automobile(s): Cadillac Escalade
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Royal Palm Beach, Florida
    Age
    42
    Posts
    13,572

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

    The engine in the 335i (N54) was originally intended for the M3 of that generation. They decided against releasing the M3 and used the engine in the 335i - extremely limited. When they decided to go along with the M3 anyway - they had to put in a V8 as they wouldn't use the same engine from another 3-Series. When the N54 335i has the limiters removed, it's a 12 second car. In my first drag race ever - not even knowing how to launch - I did a 12.9 1/4 mile with a tune and intake. The tune only turned up about 3/4 the way. The N54 is good for 500 horsepower - reliably... I had about 400.

    Quote Originally Posted by lunarx View Post
    Don't ban me for saying this, but
    that engine did not compare well to even an LS6.
    Stock V1s would walk away from 335s easily.

    As for no lag, there was no power either.
    Small Twin Turbos and low intercooler system volume do minimize lag but also limit top end power.

    I like turbos as much as anyone, but they work better on a V8 than on a V6.

    Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
    Please help us keep CadillacOwners.com online. Become a Site Supporter today. You'll get more than a "thank you" in return.



    In loving memory of Angelo Anthony Quagliaralillo... Rest in peace..

  11. #56
    0AT E03 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): Cadillac
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    333

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

    You can talk about this all day long but the two engines that could go in the ATS-V already exist.

    One is going in the Corvette, (the V8) and is rumored to be a 6.2L Gen V V8 (with DI and other goodies). You know it has to make 450+ HP, probably closer to 475 HP.

    The Second is going in the next gen CTS, (the V6 TT) and is rumored to be a 3.0L Twin Turbo V6 (based on the current 3.6L family of engines). This engine should make 350-400 HP based on the fact that the 3.6L V6 makes at most 310 HP. Over 400 HP won't happen with that engine.

    So now you have a few questions:

    1. Is 400 HP enough for an ATS-V? (probably not)
    2. Can you go V8 when your competition is going V6 Turbo? (I think so)
    3. Is there a Manual Transmission that packaged and supports the V6 TT? (As of right now rumors say no)
    4. Can you package a V6 TT in an ATS-V? (Yes if you use the next gen CTS steering equipment)

    Based on these things, I'm willing to say it's 60% probable they will stick with the V8. 40% probable they will change to the V6 TT. The V's are rumored to be 2016's, with the next gen CTS V6 TT being a mid-2014 model, so by then I think GM will have a clearer understanding of what's going on in the market and enthusiasts will have a better understanding of both engines when you compare a C7 Corvette to a 3rd Gen CTS TT to each other.

  12. #57
    Lord Cadillac is offline Cadillac Maniac
    Automobile(s): Cadillac Escalade
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Royal Palm Beach, Florida
    Age
    42
    Posts
    13,572

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

    It sounds like there are so many good possibilities right now... I'm sure a LOT of people will be happy to hear about a 350-400 horsepower, tunable, twin turbo non-V-Series CTS...

    Quote Originally Posted by 0AT E03 View Post
    You can talk about this all day long but the two engines that could go in the ATS-V already exist.

    One is going in the Corvette, (the V8) and is rumored to be a 6.2L Gen V V8 (with DI and other goodies). You know it has to make 450+ HP, probably closer to 475 HP.

    The Second is going in the next gen CTS, (the V6 TT) and is rumored to be a 3.0L Twin Turbo V6 (based on the current 3.6L family of engines). This engine should make 350-400 HP based on the fact that the 3.6L V6 makes at most 310 HP. Over 400 HP won't happen with that engine.

    So now you have a few questions:

    1. Is 400 HP enough for an ATS-V? (probably not)
    2. Can you go V8 when your competition is going V6 Turbo? (I think so)
    3. Is there a Manual Transmission that packaged and supports the V6 TT? (As of right now rumors say no)
    4. Can you package a V6 TT in an ATS-V? (Yes if you use the next gen CTS steering equipment)

    Based on these things, I'm willing to say it's 60% probable they will stick with the V8. 40% probable they will change to the V6 TT. The V's are rumored to be 2016's, with the next gen CTS V6 TT being a mid-2014 model, so by then I think GM will have a clearer understanding of what's going on in the market and enthusiasts will have a better understanding of both engines when you compare a C7 Corvette to a 3rd Gen CTS TT to each other.
    Please help us keep CadillacOwners.com online. Become a Site Supporter today. You'll get more than a "thank you" in return.



    In loving memory of Angelo Anthony Quagliaralillo... Rest in peace..

  13. #58
    M5eater's Avatar
    M5eater is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): ATS 2.0T RWD FE3
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Age
    26
    Posts
    4,489

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Cadillac View Post
    The engine in the 335i (N54) was originally intended for the M3 of that generation. They decided against releasing the M3 and used the engine in the 335i - extremely limited. When they decided to go along with the M3 anyway - they had to put in a V8 as they wouldn't use the same engine from another 3-Series. When the N54 335i has the limiters removed, it's a 12 second car. In my first drag race ever - not even knowing how to launch - I did a 12.9 1/4 mile with a tune and intake. The tune only turned up about 3/4 the way. The N54 is good for 500 horsepower - reliably... I had about 400.
    amen to that. the N54 is probally the best engine BMW makes right now with regard to power expansion.

  14. #59
    Lord Cadillac is offline Cadillac Maniac
    Automobile(s): Cadillac Escalade
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Royal Palm Beach, Florida
    Age
    42
    Posts
    13,572

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

    If GM knows how to make engines, they should also be able to produce a 3.0 liter twin turbo engine that can handle 500 horsepower. Why not? If I'm not mistaken, they have a turbo "four" that can produce 1000... I'm not saying this engine should go OUT THE DOOR with 500 horsepower - but 400 would be reasonable and if tunable to 500 (for the few who really need or want that much power) - who'd complain?

    Quote Originally Posted by M5eater View Post
    amen to that. the N54 is probally the best engine BMW makes right now with regard to power expansion.
    Please help us keep CadillacOwners.com online. Become a Site Supporter today. You'll get more than a "thank you" in return.



    In loving memory of Angelo Anthony Quagliaralillo... Rest in peace..

  15. #60
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Age
    39
    Posts
    37,475

    Re: Cadillac ATS-V - Twin Turbo V6

    I still think they should offer both. They probably won't, but they should. There are the older guys like us who want a V8, and there are the younger guys who would prefer a turbo6.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting