2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!) - Page 3
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Cadillac ATS Technical Discussion Forum Discussion, 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!) in Cadillac ATS Discussion Forums; Update: I spent some time at the dealer yesterday driving around with a tech, he verified I know how to ...
  1. #31
    bungee91 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Update:

    I spent some time at the dealer yesterday driving around with a tech, he verified I know how to drive so there is now a repair record showing the drive along's been completed, no stalling was observed and moving to the next phase.
    The service manager still stated they need to see it happen to figure out what to fix, the tech and I both agreed seeing it or not doesn't tell us anything more than it dies out and gives no path for it being fixed (in other words the dealer would still like to observe it to believe me, but that's my wording).

    Anyhow the account executive followed up with me, the logs require a certain program to open so not able to be shared.
    The dealer will be in contact with her and an engineer is supposed to meet up with me hopefully next week to analyze this more, and hopefully also give me a chance to get some details on what they looked at to decide it was I stalling the vehicle (I can't wait to debunk that myth!).

    Anyhow I will let you know what the engineer has to say, my recordings are still going strong while driving just nothing to report lately.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt M View Post
    On the Regal, 2nd through 5th are actually set to 0 rpm. I looked at it today and 6th had normal numbers, along with 1st and neutral. It would be interesting to data log and see what gear the ecm thinks its in right before it stalls. Once again, if anyone wants to come to our shop in west Michigan, I'd be happy to get involved and get this figured out.
    Can you pm me an address to your shop?
    I may take you up on this, time/distance is the main factor.
    Thanks for the input!

  2. #32
    bungee91 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    I'm no longer able to edit the O.P. so I will add the info here.

    I've just received a call from the Service Manager and also the Account Executive that I've been working with and GM admits there is an issue and they're working on it.
    I was told that the brand quality manager for the ATS and both engineering on the engine side and the transmission side are working on a fix.
    The stalling is related to the low RPM and the engine programming to cutoff due to the dual mass clutch differential (or whatever it's called).
    So apparently it is doing what it is supposed to HOWEVER the RPM should never reach that point for it to cutoff while normal operation. This is what they are working on fixing.


    There is no known ETA for the fix, but a bulletin will be posted once it comes available.
    I have asked for some form of a reference # or something for others who are having this issue to be able to reference when speaking with their dealerships. I'm supposed to be given this information later in the week, however since it isn't an official bulletin yet, or update there is no specific # assigned that she could give me.

    So at least I no longer need to prove that it's not me stalling the vehicle (still recording anyhow; I did receive an apology from the account executive for the previous ruling), but for now it still isn't fixed.

    Hope this information may help some of you who may be in this same process.

    Also since they don't have a fix yet, as previously stated the 2014's should be just as susceptible to this as 2013's.
    JimmyH and roadpie4u like this.

  3. #33
    JLGT is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Hooray!!!

  4. #34
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Quote Originally Posted by bungee91 View Post
    I'm no longer able to edit the O.P. so I will add the info here.

    ..............
    bubgee, FYI I pasted your post into the original post.

  5. #35
    bungee91 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Thanks for adding the info..
    Anyway you can re-enable my editing function so that I'd be able to spruce it up?


    No Sorry, but I will make any change you PM to me or ask in the forums.

  6. #36
    Matt M is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    If the issue is what I posted about, the fix should be very easy.

  7. #37
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    You guys, rev it more!

    I never had any problem with it. Maybe because of trifecta tune?

  8. #38
    Stevo Supremo's Avatar
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Yeah this engine seriously needs to be revved before launch, this engine does stall easily, I need to bump it to 1500RPM to launch so it doesn't stall

  9. #39
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Quote Originally Posted by kmb32687 View Post
    You guys, rev it more!

    I never had any problem with it. Maybe because of trifecta tune?
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo Supremo View Post
    Yeah this engine seriously needs to be revved before launch, this engine does stall easily, I need to bump it to 1500RPM to launch so it doesn't stall
    Let's keep this on topic. This thread is about stalling in neutral or with the clutch all the way in. It has nothing to do with getting the car moving.
    bungee91 likes this.

  10. #40
    RachelH is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    I've been reading your posts, and having my own dealings with my dealer in Torrance CA. They too put a data recorder in my ATS and after 2 days of test-driving it, pleaded with me to take the car back with the recorder in it, since it did not stall during their brief test drives. Curiously they think I am the only one who can make the car stall, while sitting at a red light! I gave them permission to give my car to the dealer Gen. Mgr, to the sales guy who also drives a ATS Man tr., and to any other service tech to test drive with the recorder in it, since I am DONE risking my own safety and that of my family. Their response? After taking the trouble of getting and installing the recorder, and after promising to drive it for a week + weekend, they took it out after 2 days, because I was "refusing" to drive my own car! I could go at length about the ridiculous things I've been told by those I have dealt with, but let's suffice it to say that Cadillac may want to appear like a luxury car maker, but they certainly act like luxury car-wanna be, with no interest in service, or their long-term reputation. My lawyer thinks we should start a Class Action law suit against GM, since they want to force us to drive these unsafe cars. Has anyone already started this process with a lawyer?

  11. #41
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Quote Originally Posted by RachelH View Post
    I've been reading your posts, and having my own dealings with my dealer in Torrance CA. They too put a data recorder in my ATS and after 2 days of test-driving it, pleaded with me to take the car back with the recorder in it, since it did not stall during their brief test drives. Curiously they think I am the only one who can make the car stall, while sitting at a red light! I gave them permission to give my car to the dealer Gen. Mgr, to the sales guy who also drives a ATS Man tr., and to any other service tech to test drive with the recorder in it, since I am DONE risking my own safety and that of my family. Their response? After taking the trouble of getting and installing the recorder, and after promising to drive it for a week + weekend, they took it out after 2 days, because I was "refusing" to drive my own car! I could go at length about the ridiculous things I've been told by those I have dealt with, but let's suffice it to say that Cadillac may want to appear like a luxury car maker, but they certainly act like luxury car-wanna be, with no interest in service, or their long-term reputation. My lawyer thinks we should start a Class Action law suit against GM, since they want to force us to drive these unsafe cars. Has anyone already started this process with a lawyer?
    Please post your NHTSA report number.

  12. #42
    bungee91 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    Please post your NHTSA report number.
    She already did, it's in the OP. She PM'd it to me.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by RachelH View Post
    I've been reading your posts, and having my own dealings with my dealer in Torrance CA. They too put a data recorder in my ATS and after 2 days of test-driving it, pleaded with me to take the car back with the recorder in it, since it did not stall during their brief test drives. Curiously they think I am the only one who can make the car stall, while sitting at a red light! I gave them permission to give my car to the dealer Gen. Mgr, to the sales guy who also drives a ATS Man tr., and to any other service tech to test drive with the recorder in it, since I am DONE risking my own safety and that of my family. Their response? After taking the trouble of getting and installing the recorder, and after promising to drive it for a week + weekend, they took it out after 2 days, because I was "refusing" to drive my own car! I could go at length about the ridiculous things I've been told by those I have dealt with, but let's suffice it to say that Cadillac may want to appear like a luxury car maker, but they certainly act like luxury car-wanna be, with no interest in service, or their long-term reputation. My lawyer thinks we should start a Class Action law suit against GM, since they want to force us to drive these unsafe cars. Has anyone already started this process with a lawyer?
    I'm waiting to get some sort of documentation # for reference so that other people (like yourself) can get your dealer on the right track to properly address your concerns.
    I do believe that once your dealer knows that GM is admitting to this being an issue and talks to the correct people within the organization his/her tone should change dramatically.

    I do HIGHLY recommend working with the Customer Service rep here as a starting point (did you hear that Hoosier Daddy...LOL) and they should get you in contact with an executive representative to work with upper GM and directly to your service manager. Since they've admitted this can happen AND they're trying to get a fix made/bulletin posted I see no reason if you feel that unsafe that they should not do something to make this right until a fix is worked out.
    Please let us know if you choose to follow this path.
    I don't like "playing the game" either, however it seems to be a necessary evil to get your concerns properly addressed.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt M View Post
    If the issue is what I posted about, the fix should be very easy.
    I'm hopeful that is the case also, however this is corporate America..

    It is unfortunate that this stalling only affects some ATS's and certainly not all of them.
    Being that the case it does make it a bit more problematic. GM doesn't seem to want to disable the intended engine cutoff for protection of the dual mass..., however it is troublesome to think only some manual vehicles reach this lower RPM and have this issue while others don't. My car has been great for the last 2 - 3 weeks, no stalls. Once it heats up again (Chicago area, it'll be a while) if not fixed it will become much more frequent.

    ----------

    Reading through the NHTSA complaints for our car I counted 7 filings for manual vehicles stalling (we have 6 NHTSA #'s listed here). I wonder at what point they plan to get involved?
    Interesting read, it's under search safety issues by vehicle.

  13. #43
    RachelH is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Hoosier, the case is #10549244.

  14. #44
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Quote Originally Posted by bungee91 View Post
    It is unfortunate that this stalling only affects some ATS's and certainly not all of them. Being that the case it does make it a bit more problematic. GM doesn't seem to want to disable the intended engine cutoff for protection of the dual mass..., however it is troublesome to think only some manual vehicles reach this lower RPM and have this issue while others don't. My car has been great for the last 2 - 3 weeks, no stalls. Once it heats up again (Chicago area, it'll be a while) if not fixed it will become much more frequent.
    I would bet that it only happens to some cars because some component(s) are performing slightly out of specs. If so there may be two fixes, one to eliminate the quality issue in future parts and the other to program around the problem for cars that have (or could have) the marginal parts. If the latter happens it will raise the question of what are the unintended consequences of that band-aid. It's possible a program fix might also reduce mileage or power or have other long term consequences. But lets not get ahead of ourselves. But since it only happens to some cars, I'd sleep easier if the fix was to replace some hardware in those cars rather than a software update that also went to ATSs that weren't stalling. Thinking out loud, I'd hope that program fixes were just made to problem cars; if they roll it out to all manual trans cars it could mean they believe its just a matter of time before parts in the other manual trans cars drift out of specs.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by RachelH View Post
    Hoosier, the case is #10549244.
    Thanks, I should have checked. I was asking because I know the OP can't update the first post any more so I was going to add the case number.

    To the OP: Anything you want added or changed in the first place just let me know by PM. Sorry I don't have a way to give you that ability.

  15. #45
    bungee91 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    I would bet that it only happens to some cars because some component(s) are performing slightly out of specs. If so there may be two fixes, one to eliminate the quality issue in future parts and the other to program around the problem for cars that have (or could have) the marginal parts. If the latter happens it will raise the question of what are the unintended consequences of that band-aid. It's possible a program fix might also reduce mileage or power or have other long term consequences. But lets not get ahead of ourselves. But since it only happens to some cars, I'd sleep easier if the fix was to replace some hardware in those cars rather than a software update that also went to ATSs that weren't stalling. Thinking out loud, I'd hope that program fixes were just made to problem cars; if they roll it out to all manual trans cars it could mean they believe its just a matter of time before parts in the other manual trans cars drift out of specs.
    I'm thinking the same thing. I know with some items (maybe it is bulletins) that unless you complain of an issue the dealer doesn't have a notice for your vehicle. However once they have a complaint they then look into it more and find whatever fixes that have been diagnosed. I believe this happened with the tap-tap-tap'ing that I used to have in my HVAC. Not sure if it became an across the board fix, or just for those complaining. I believe I had 2 updates performed, one because I complained and then another I believe everyone received.
    ----------
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    To the OP: Anything you want added or changed in the first place just let me know by PM. Sorry I don't have a way to give you that ability.
    Gotcha, and thanks for the sticky (mainly for others to see of course, but still).
    I have some ideas, but it gets the point across well enough for now.

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