2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!) - Page 2
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Cadillac ATS Technical Discussion Forum Discussion, 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!) in Cadillac ATS Discussion Forums; Mine hasn't done it in the last four weeks, and has been pretty infrequent. I will be bringing it in ...
  1. #16
    marktanner is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Mine hasn't done it in the last four weeks, and has been pretty infrequent. I will be bringing it in soon for it's first service, and will address it with the dealer then. It's apparently due for some relishes anyway, and some have mentioned that that cured it for them. If that doesn't work, then I will file the complaint with the NHTSA.

  2. #17
    bungee91 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas ATS View Post
    So Try having your dealers reflash the computer like mine did.
    Mine has been reflashed by the dealer, all grounds cleaned/checked, etc.... Same thing, no better. This was done 6 months or so ago at this point. I just learned to live with the stalling, however I believe I am done with dealing with it we will get GM's attention!


    I just added Rachel's NHTSA # (thanks) and had added another yesterday.
    We're up to six now, I think that's pretty good.
    Thanks everyone.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by marktanner View Post
    Mine hasn't done it in the last four weeks, and has been pretty infrequent. I will be bringing it in soon for it's first service, and will address it with the dealer then. It's apparently due for some relishes anyway, and some have mentioned that that cured it for them. If that doesn't work, then I will file the complaint with the NHTSA.
    Please let us know how this goes, and I am glad for you if it is fixed.

    With my car the dealer/GM has already blamed it on me so I am pretty much just F##### in regards to getting any solution from them on my own (IMHO).

    I have heard nothing about the logs I requested, hopefully this week I will hear something.

  3. #18
    bboren994 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    For all of you people that just want to "live with/deal with" the stalling and think there is no other recourse....FILE A LEMON LAW CLAIM!!!! Get yourself a NEW CAR or ALL OF YOUR MONEY BACK....!!!!! Be smart people!!

  4. #19
    jae7373 is online now Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Quote Originally Posted by bboren994 View Post
    For all of you people that just want to "live with/deal with" the stalling and think there is no other recourse....FILE A LEMON LAW CLAIM!!!! Get yourself a NEW CAR or ALL OF YOUR MONEY BACK....!!!!! Be smart people!!
    The problem with living with it is you may cease to "live" after the car stalls while tuning left in traffic....
    bboren994 likes this.

  5. #20
    bungee91 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Quote Originally Posted by jae7373 View Post

    The problem with living with it is you may cease to "live" after the car stalls while tuning left in traffic....
    Have you been data logging these events?.. I believe it was you with the Kent-Moore unit, correct?

  6. #21
    jae7373 is online now Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Quote Originally Posted by bungee91 View Post
    Have you been data logging these events?.. I believe it was you with the Kent-Moore unit, correct?
    Funny story about that(not really funny at all)... Had 2 events recorded, took the unit back to the dealer. After they lost the unit for a day, there was nothing recorded. GIANT waste of my time!
    bboren994 likes this.

  7. #22
    bungee91 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Quote Originally Posted by jae7373 View Post
    Funny story about that(not really funny at all)... Had 2 events recorded, took the unit back to the dealer. After they lost the unit for a day, there was nothing recorded. GIANT waste of my time!
    That's unfortunate, but guess what? The first time the recorder was setup in my car the EXACT same thing happened! They had to get another unit shipped to them and that one apparently worked... That's hilarious (sorry)!
    In the end it is likely they will look at the data and then blame you for stalling it (your situation sounds like mine so far, so...).

    In hindsight I HIGHLY recommend removing the SD card prior to returning the next one they put in and copying the log contents before it being sent out! They tell you not to touch it, etc... however if you want to see that data it is likely the easiest way to do so.
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Update on my case so far.
    I contacted the GM Customer rep here again with a detailed reply and typical frustration/my concerns.

    Anyhow I received a call from an account executive within their team and she is working on this more.
    She is supposed to let me know more details on Friday. She also mentioned this thread, so I'm glad if it's raising some attention within GM!
    She said that she'd like me to drive the car with a person from the dealership with me.
    I told her I am more than up to doing it, but it is highly unlikely that it will choose to stall at that moment (it is pretty darn random), however I understand why.
    Anyhow I will need to schedule that at some point. I told her that if it doesn't stall does that finally mean they verified that I know how to drive and it's not me it's the car?....LOL.

    Will update when I know more, I'm data logging (which I'm having some issues with) and video recording my time in the car.

  8. #23
    JavaGirl is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Does anyone know how to make it more likely to die so bungee91 can be more likely to demonstrate it to someone from the dealership? Someone said maybe having the AC on will make it more likely to die because of the extra load on the engine. What about turning the wheels? Doesn't that also cause the power steering to load the engine somewhat? What about hitting the breaks? Is there anything else on the serpentine belt that could be engaged to help?

    Is it more likely to die when coasting to a stop from an initial high RMP or initial low RPM? Does anyone know or is it just random?

    ----------

    What I might do to try is: from some speed (two trials - one from high RPMs and one from low RPMs) put the car in neutral, completely release the clutch (forces the engine to turn a little bit of the transmission for a little added friction load - hey every little bit might help), and let it coast into a right hand turn with a stop sign while hitting the break and turning on the AC all at the same time.

    All disclaimers apply: try this at your own risk. I am not responsible if this causes an accident...

  9. #24
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Power sterring is electric so would have little if any impact on engine load. It may or may not increase load from the alternator in real time.

  10. #25
    bungee91 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaGirl View Post
    Does anyone know how to make it more likely to die so bungee91 can be more likely to demonstrate it to someone from the dealership? Someone said maybe having the AC on will make it more likely to die because of the extra load on the engine. What about turning the wheels? Doesn't that also cause the power steering to load the engine somewhat? What about hitting the breaks? Is there anything else on the serpentine belt that could be engaged to help?

    Is it more likely to die when coasting to a stop from an initial high RMP or initial low RPM? Does anyone know or is it just random?

    ----------

    What I might do to try is: from some speed (two trials - one from high RPMs and one from low RPMs) put the car in neutral, completely release the clutch (forces the engine to turn a little bit of the transmission for a little added friction load - hey every little bit might help), and let it coast into a right hand turn with a stop sign while hitting the break and turning on the AC all at the same time.

    All disclaimers apply: try this at your own risk. I am not responsible if this causes an accident...
    I appreciate the brain storming and ideas!..

    As for the questions, it is honestly nothing specific to cause it to stall. When it happens it is the same thing (it stalls..LOL) from what I've been able to see, it gets to a lower RPM than normal stumbles briefly and the shuts off.
    I have had it happen after an abrupt stop with a high RPM, to a slow stop with a lower RPM. It has done it with the A/C on and off, full tank/almost empty tank of gas.
    ------------------------

    An update:
    The new service manager at my dealership contacted me today after receiving a message from the account executive that I started working with (I believe this stems from the GM Customer reps here, so thank you if so!).
    Anyhow he seems more than willing to get this figured out, so I am back to a state of the dealership giving a shit, and not just telling me that it's me and if I learn how to drive all will be well (that was basically the message, you get the drift).
    So I will be doing a drive along with them tomorrow and even though it's unlikely, hopefully it will stall during that time. We will be doing plenty of stop/go's to hopefully get it to act up.

    The service manger also explained that (even though a bit BS, still comforting) that he doesn't think that it is I stalling the car, however if he can't see it happen he's not sure where to start diagnosing. Now IMHO if they do see it stall they still will have no idea where to start, however I will be very happy that they will start replacing something and working with me.

    So all in all I am glad to see GM and my dealership taking this seriously and starting to try to get this resolved.
    I have been recording my time in the car lately and no stalls for almost a week now, so it is likely to do it again soon, tomorrow afternoon would be perfect if so!!..

    I am also supposed to receive a call back from the account executive on Friday, I will update the thread with what I hear at that point.

    Thanks to all for listening, and hopefully the others with this issue are getting similar treatment as well!
    Hoosier Daddy likes this.

  11. #26
    Matt M is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    We ran into the same issue on a manual trans '12 Regal and corrected it in the ECM. Looking at the files, they seem to be set up nearly the same between the Regal and ATS 2.0s. Unfortunately, I don't have a manual trans ATS file to look at to see if the same issue exists. If anyone affected is in west michigan or close enough to bring their car here, I would have no problem reading the ECM to see if the same solution could be implemented.

  12. #27
    jae7373 is online now Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt M View Post
    We ran into the same issue on a manual trans '12 Regal and corrected it in the ECM. Looking at the files, they seem to be set up nearly the same between the Regal and ATS 2.0s. Unfortunately, I don't have a manual trans ATS file to look at to see if the same issue exists. If anyone affected is in west michigan or close enough to bring their car here, I would have no problem reading the ECM to see if the same solution could be implemented.
    what in the Regal ECM was causing the stalling? or rather what did you correct?

  13. #28
    Matt M is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    In the Regal file, coast down idle is only set to operate in 1st or neutral. All other gears are set to 0 rpm. I'm guessing if you hold the clutch pedal to the floor that it won't stall. Is that correct? If so, that would be due to the ecm seeing this as neutral and therefore commanding a reasonable idle rpm. The problem comes in when you engage the clutch (release the pedal) and the ecm then thinks you are in a high gear based on rpm and wheel speed. It then expects the car to start bucking because it would if it was actually in a high gear at a low speed. The problem seems obvious to me, but without sensors to actually know when the trans is in neutral, this type of safety feature can not function properly. It seems like an oversight in the design.
    Hoosier Daddy likes this.

  14. #29
    jae7373 is online now Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt M View Post
    In the Regal file, coast down idle is only set to operate in 1st or neutral. All other gears are set to 0 rpm. I'm guessing if you hold the clutch pedal to the floor that it won't stall. Is that correct? If so, that would be due to the ecm seeing this as neutral and therefore commanding a reasonable idle rpm. The problem comes in when you engage the clutch (release the pedal) and the ecm then thinks you are in a high gear based on rpm and wheel speed. It then expects the car to start bucking because it would if it was actually in a high gear at a low speed. The problem seems obvious to me, but without sensors to actually know when the trans is in neutral, this type of safety feature can not function properly. It seems like an oversight in the design.
    Yes, I think the clutch depressed prevents stalling... its hard to recall exactly my foot position mainly because I don't know it's off until I try to get back in gear and back on the gas. Also the clutch could be disengaged, mostly, only lightly off the floor but not making the clutch switch.
    Couple of questions:
    So when you say 1st and neutral have a "coast down idle" are you saying the ECM is commanding an actual idle speed ("reasonable" = higher than standard?), where as other gears are set to 0rpm? When you say 0 rpm are you saying that it just idles without a commanded speed or without a higher commanded idle speed?
    SO as an example just making speeds up. coast down is say 900rpm but regular idle is say 650rpm
    So any unplanned drop below normal idle (650RPM in my example) will cause a preemptive stall if the clutch is engaged but in neutral?

  15. #30
    Matt M is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2013 6 Speed Manual Stalling - Affected Users Thread (It's the car, not you!)

    On the Regal, 2nd through 5th are actually set to 0 rpm. I looked at it today and 6th had normal numbers, along with 1st and neutral. It would be interesting to data log and see what gear the ecm thinks its in right before it stalls. Once again, if anyone wants to come to our shop in west Michigan, I'd be happy to get involved and get this figured out.
    Hoosier Daddy and GJB like this.

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