2013 2.0T 6spd stalling... - Page 4
cadillac ats forums cadillac ats forums
CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Closed Thread
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 92
Like Tree8Likes
Cadillac ATS Technical Discussion Forum Discussion, 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling... in Cadillac ATS Discussion Forums; ...
  1. #46
    Hoosier Daddy's Avatar
    Hoosier Daddy is online now Moderator
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS Performance 2.0T M6
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Winchestertonfieldville, AZ
    Posts
    3,045

    Re: 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling...

    Quote Originally Posted by jae7373 View Post
    Here is what my dealer told me on Friday. They claim to have reached out to both the ATS quality brand manager and the ATS powertrain manager. They were unable to duplicate but believe this scenario is likely: IF you are in any gear but first with the clutch out (even .5" off the floor) and the RPMs fall below 600, the ECM assumes a stall is emanate and kills the engine preemptively.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac Cust Svc View Post
    Hello jae7373,

    Thank you very much for keeping us updated on what the dealership has stated. I apologize that you are not satisfied with the respond you have gotten from them. If you would like to discuss this issue further, or would like any assistance in setting up an appointment with another dealership for a second opinion, please feel free to private message us. You can also contact us at socialmedia@gm.com if you are unable to contact us via private message. Please be sure to include “ATTN GREG” in the subject line so that it gets delivered straight to me. Thank you very much for your time.

    Gregory W.
    Cadillac Customer Care
    Gregory, please research to see if what the dealer told him is fact and let us know and post who you talked to (job title okay if shy). It does not sound logical and does not seem to happen when I create the situation. If I had a dollar every time a dealer made something up or got it ass backwards.... Anyway, please confirm. We don't want to be chasing a wild goose due to a possible chicken little scenario, if I can use a mixed fowl metaphor.

    Thanks.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  2. #47
    jae7373 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS 3.6 Performance AWD
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Fishers, IN
    Age
    38
    Posts
    34

    Re: 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    Gregory, please research to see if what the dealer told him is fact and let us know and post who you talked to (job title okay if shy). It does not sound logical and does not seem to happen when I create the situation. If I had a dollar every time a dealer made something up or got it ass backwards.... Anyway, please confirm. We don't want to be chasing a wild goose due to a possible chicken little scenario, if I can use a mixed fowl metaphor.

    Thanks.
    I'm curious too, since I've spoke with no one technical yet. The dealer told me to use neutral as I'm slowing, which I argue this strategy should not be relied upon. Stupid strategy or not, I've had stalling occur (or notice it's stalled) as I'm in neutral and/or when transitioning from neutral to second. Point is this might have something to do with stalling but it doesn't encompass all of the situations I've had where the engine is stalled.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  3. #48
    Cadillac Cust Svc's Avatar
    Cadillac Cust Svc is online now Cadillac Customer Service
    Automobile(s): All Cadillac vehicles!
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    10,260

    Re: 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    Gregory, please research to see if what the dealer told him is fact and let us know and post who you talked to (job title okay if shy). It does not sound logical and does not seem to happen when I create the situation. If I had a dollar every time a dealer made something up or got it ass backwards.... Anyway, please confirm. We don't want to be chasing a wild goose due to a possible chicken little scenario, if I can use a mixed fowl metaphor.

    Thanks.
    Hello Hoosier Daddy,

    I have private messaged jae7373 with some information about who he could contact to receive this information. I apologize I am unable to comment regarding other customer’s cases, but jae7373 is more than welcome to provide any information he receives from the contact that I provided him. Thank you very much for your time.

    Gregory W.
    Cadillac Customer Care
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  4. #49
    JLGT is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 13 ATS 2.0T 6MT Performance
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    165

    Re: 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling...

    This is what I got from the service department when my car was in service

    VEHICLE IS DESIGNED TO SHUT ENGINE OFF IF RPM'S ARE AT 500 WHEN COMING TO A STOP IN 3RD GEAR OR ABOVE. ENGINE WILL SHUT OFF TO PROTECT DUAL MASS CLUTCH FROM BEING DAMAGED. REC WHEN COMING TO A STOP THAT CUSTOMER SHIFT VEHICLE INTO FIRST OR SECOND GEAR OR NEUTRAL. THIS WILL PREVENT ENGINE FROM SHUTTING OFF WHEN ENGINE RPM IS AT 500. COMPARED TO LIKE MODEL AND YEAR. SAME AS LIKE MODEL.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  5. #50
    Hoosier Daddy's Avatar
    Hoosier Daddy is online now Moderator
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS Performance 2.0T M6
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Winchestertonfieldville, AZ
    Posts
    3,045

    Re: 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac Cust Svc View Post
    Hello Hoosier Daddy,

    I have private messaged jae7373 with some information about who he could contact to receive this information. I apologize I am unable to comment regarding other customer’s cases, but jae7373 is more than welcome to provide any information he receives from the contact that I provided him. Thank you very much for your time.

    Gregory W.
    Cadillac Customer Care
    You are misunderstanding Gregory. I was asking you to confirm if any manual transmission ATS is programmed to defensively kill the engine if RPMs drop below 600 in any gear but 1st. I am not asking you or anyone at GM to justify the answer in any way. This is similar to my question about the weight of the factory wheels. One of your predecessors tracked that information down for me even though it was not a "problem". I realize this may be something that is a little outside your everyday routine.

    Now reading further back and the latest post, I see variations and contradictions so it is quite possible this is a chicken little scenario.

    What JLGT posted from his dealer is different in important ways from the paraphrasing in a few earlier posts.

    First, the actual dealer statement says the intentional killing of the engine is for 3rd thru 6th gear, NOT any gear but 1st. Second it says 500 RPMs, not 600. When we are trying to diagnose these problems, the EXACT parameters are needed. And it is a legitimate process for owners to try to diagnose problems when the dealers have already stated that they can not.

    So I am altering my questions that I would like you to find the official answer to, Greg. Consider these MY questions about how MY vehicle operates. The answers to these questions could conceivably allow any owner, I mean me, avoid a dangerous stalling situation.

    1) Is a manual transmission ATS designed to kill the engine if RPMs drop below a certain point in any gear?

    2) If so, what gears and what RPMs?

    3) Are there any other situations that an ATS is designed to shut the engine off while the car is moving?

    4) If so, what are they?

    Please provide answers to them as you get them rather than wait until you get them all.

    If some warped policy requires you to answer me in private, that's okay.

    ------ End message to Customer Care.

    Now on to the stalling problem.

    I've posted some of this before but did not see anything come of it.

    Numerous time dealers claimed the customer was causing the problem and even apparently told the customer that data logging confirmed it.

    Now we are hearing that the car is designed to stall itself if it THINKS RPMs drop below a certain point to minimize damage to the dual mass clutch.

    I am skeptical about data logging proving the stalling is driver error, i.e. letting RPMs drop so low in a gear that the engine could no longer run. I would like to know what sensors were used to determine the clutch was engaged. I know there is a sensor that detects "full" clutch pedal depression that is used to prevent starting with the clutch engaged. But to my knowledge, that is simple on/off and doesn't report where in the travel the pedal is. And none of these I'm familiar with measure where the clutch travel is at all, simply if the PEDAL is depressed past a certain point.

    Are the techs basing a finding of driver error on the absence of a fully depressed clutch status in the data logging? I want to hear from the owners just what in the log proved their guilt.

    It would seem to me that if several customers continue to swear the clutch was fully depressed contrary to any data logging, I would be wondering if there might be some defective sensors. Maybe it really is a bunch of customers who mistakingly think they were depressing the clutch or had it in neutral, but its not a sure thing. And how do they determine if the car is in neutral or not anyway? I mean the reason given for no remote start of manual trans ATSs is that the car can't tell if its in neutral? So how does it know what gear (or does it?) And if it doesn't how does it kknow to only stall for low RPMS in 3rd gear or above?

    Now that we have this wrinkle about the car intentionally killing the engine if it THINKS the car is in certain gear and below a certain RPM, those gear and clutch pedal sensors just might be failing to report properly and unnecessarily killing the engine.

    And now we hear that at least one car is stalling when going over speed bumps. Well I'd say that same sensor could be a suspect in that scenario also if it was sensitve to impacts.

    Without further information it really sounds like the techs might be basing driver error claims on bad sensors AND an assumption that the engine could never drop below x (600?) RPMs unless it was being lugged AND that the customers are lieing or mistaken. I say that's too many assumptions to just call it a day.

    I'm just speculating. Is there anyone on these forums that can confirm my speculations one way or the other?
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  6. #51
    Vegas ATS is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): ATS
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    7

    Re: 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling...

    update on my stalling. It has NOT stalled once since I took it to the dealer. They reflashed the new software update and I put over 1000 miles on it without it stalling once. I drove it hard, easy, full tank, empty tank ,hard breaking and everything. NO more stalling at all.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  7. #52
    jae7373 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS 3.6 Performance AWD
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Fishers, IN
    Age
    38
    Posts
    34

    Re: 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling...

    GM (Gregory) did not tell me anything other than they could not comment due to current pending lemon law case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    Now we are hearing that the car is designed to stall itself if it THINKS RPMs drop below a certain point to minimize damage to the dual mass clutch.
    I am curious what lawyer at GM decided it was okay to favor a wear part over occupant safety. I still contend that the fuel should not be turned off unless engine speed is really low... 300ish

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    I would like to know what sensors were used to determine the clutch was engaged. I know there is a sensor that detects "full" clutch pedal depression that is used to prevent starting with the clutch engaged. But to my knowledge, that is simple on/off and doesn't report where in the travel the pedal is. And none of these I'm familiar with measure where the clutch travel is at all, simply if the PEDAL is depressed past a certain point.
    You are correct. There is just a single switch saying the clutch pedal is in all the way. So that is why I say ".5" off the floor" is the same to the car as all the way released.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    I mean the reason given for no remote start of manual trans ATSs is that the car can't tell if its in neutral? So how does it know what gear (or does it?) And if it doesn't how does it kknow to only stall for low RPMS in 3rd gear or above?
    The car knows what gear it is in. If you get close to redline it tells you in the DIC to up shift, it has the gear you should go to and an up arrow. It could in be inferring the gear by engine speed and vehicle speed and that is why there is no remote start.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  8. #53
    Cadillac Cust Svc's Avatar
    Cadillac Cust Svc is online now Cadillac Customer Service
    Automobile(s): All Cadillac vehicles!
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    10,260

    Re: 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    You are misunderstanding Gregory. I was asking you to confirm if any manual transmission ATS is programmed to defensively kill the engine if RPMs drop below 600 in any gear but 1st. I am not asking you or anyone at GM to justify the answer in any way. This is similar to my question about the weight of the factory wheels. One of your predecessors tracked that information down for me even though it was not a "problem". I realize this may be something that is a little outside your everyday routine.

    Now reading further back and the latest post, I see variations and contradictions so it is quite possible this is a chicken little scenario.

    What JLGT posted from his dealer is different in important ways from the paraphrasing in a few earlier posts.

    First, the actual dealer statement says the intentional killing of the engine is for 3rd thru 6th gear, NOT any gear but 1st. Second it says 500 RPMs, not 600. When we are trying to diagnose these problems, the EXACT parameters are needed. And it is a legitimate process for owners to try to diagnose problems when the dealers have already stated that they can not.

    So I am altering my questions that I would like you to find the official answer to, Greg. Consider these MY questions about how MY vehicle operates. The answers to these questions could conceivably allow any owner, I mean me, avoid a dangerous stalling situation.

    1) Is a manual transmission ATS designed to kill the engine if RPMs drop below a certain point in any gear?

    2) If so, what gears and what RPMs?

    3) Are there any other situations that an ATS is designed to shut the engine off while the car is moving?

    4) If so, what are they?

    Please provide answers to them as you get them rather than wait until you get them all.

    If some warped policy requires you to answer me in private, that's okay.
    Hello Hoosier Daddy,

    I apologize for misunderstanding your statement. I thought you were asking me to confirm the dealership’s statement in jae7373’s case. I will definitely reach out to an internal resource with your questions and respond to you when I receive an answer. Thank you very much for your time.

    Gregory W.
    Cadillac Customer Care
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  9. #54
    Hoosier Daddy's Avatar
    Hoosier Daddy is online now Moderator
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS Performance 2.0T M6
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Winchestertonfieldville, AZ
    Posts
    3,045

    Re: 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac Cust Svc View Post
    Hello Hoosier Daddy,

    I apologize for misunderstanding your statement. I thought you were asking me to confirm the dealership’s statement in jae7373’s case. I will definitely reach out to an internal resource with your questions and respond to you when I receive an answer. Thank you very much for your time.

    Gregory W.
    Cadillac Customer Care
    I figured that. No apologies necessary. The work you and your group do is very much appreciated by me and I'm sure the vast majority of owners.

    Thanks for everything you've done and continue to do for us.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  10. #55
    TamrocATS is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): None
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    5

    Re: 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling...

    Hey,

    So has anyone corrected this issue?

    Is GM addressing it with a computer re-flash?

    I'm about to place an order for a 2014 ATS 2.0L MT....I wanted something sensible that I can use for work and do NOT want an automatic.

    Any advice? Should I steer clear? Im also looking at 2013 G37s 6MTs as well.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  11. #56
    JLGT is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 13 ATS 2.0T 6MT Performance
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    165

    Re: 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling...

    Just saw this on youtube.



    ----------

    she actually has two videos

    bungee91 and jae7373 like this.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  12. #57
    bungee91 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 2013 Opulent ATS 2.0T Premium Manual
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    North Aurora, IL
    Posts
    335

    Re: 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling...

    Quote Originally Posted by jae7373 View Post
    The car knows what gear it is in. If you get close to redline it tells you in the DIC to up shift, it has the gear you should go to and an up arrow. It could in be inferring the gear by engine speed and vehicle speed and that is why there is no remote start.
    I don't believe the car knows what gear it is in at all, it bases upshifts on engine RPM/speed as that is an easy enough calculation to know when to shift and what gear you'd have to be in at that RPM/speed.
    I don't know of any physical wire/sensor that can tell GM it is in first or neutral when it stalls out..

    Another thing to add to this; I don't give a shit if the car is designed to turn off at <500RPM in 3rd+ gear or not (it's still stupid BTW), my car dies in neutral when coasting to a stop. I've had the ability to watch it happen twice without it in gear, it gets to just <500 (I seem to idle bout 600 normally, so it's lower than normal) and abruptly just shuts off.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by JLGT View Post
    Just saw this on youtube.
    she actually has two videos
    Nice, commented.
    I've attempted to video mine also (tripod strapped to seat, etc...) however it became such a pain in the ass to swap the battery every time I got in the car (they last about 45 minutes each time, my commute is roughly that).
    Plus you can only really capture the RPM's (you can see the whole gauge on my failed attempts) and the shift lever, and no way of seeing the clutch pedal position. Being that the case I don't always shift to neutral when slowing to a stop initially. If you forget to put it into neutral while taping (even though clearly the clutch pedal is pressed in/engine disengaged) it could look as I've stalled it (even though I'm still rolling)... It can be a hassle to change my driving habits just to have a tape that then couldn't be disputed by GM.
    Maybe I'll try to start taping it again. If only there was a power cord for my camera that I could plug into the car (it would make it SO much easier)!

    Also, (sorry BUT) Gregory/Cadillac Customer Service has been useless in helping with this problem.
    I wouldn't waste your time if they decide to contact you to help you out, they will make you think GM is going to do something, and overall they will waste your time and do nothing.
    He basically told me that they aren't engineers (duh), however neither am I and my car is stalling out, so could someone fix it I ask.... nothing... not even a reply..
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  13. #58
    jae7373 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS 3.6 Performance AWD
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Fishers, IN
    Age
    38
    Posts
    34

    Re: 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling...

    Quote Originally Posted by TamrocATS View Post
    Hey,

    So has anyone corrected this issue?

    Is GM addressing it with a computer re-flash?

    I'm about to place an order for a 2014 ATS 2.0L MT....I wanted something sensible that I can use for work and do NOT want an automatic.

    Any advice? Should I steer clear? Im also looking at 2013 G37s 6MTs as well.
    There is no fix or recognition of a problem.

    The ATS is a great car in every way except this issue. May I suggest a 6MT Acura TL? I've owned one before. The torque vectoring of SH-AWD makes it feel almost as nimble as the ATS.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  14. #59
    Hoosier Daddy's Avatar
    Hoosier Daddy is online now Moderator
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS Performance 2.0T M6
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Winchestertonfieldville, AZ
    Posts
    3,045

    Re: 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling...

    Quote Originally Posted by bungee91 View Post
    Also, (sorry BUT) Gregory/Cadillac Customer Service has been useless in helping with this problem.
    I wouldn't waste your time if they decide to contact you to help you out, they will make you think GM is going to do something, and overall they will waste your time and do nothing.
    He basically told me that they aren't engineers (duh), however neither am I and my car is stalling out, so could someone fix it I ask.... nothing... not even a reply..
    I think you are using the same faulty logic as Muffin. Okay you and at least one other owner talked to CS and still have the problem. But there are also documented cases in these forums of people who have talked to CS and had theirs fixed or even replaced. So it is ridiculous to advise anyone else to NOT talk to CS. All car makers rely on their dealers to diagnose and advise. Not all dealers are as competent and not all are as professional as the next one. Maybe you once had a neighbor you didn't get along with but thought another was great. Same principal. CS can SOMETIMES be what gets your case moved from the dealer's "I don't care" or "customer's a loud mouth jerk" pile to the "give it our all" pile.

    That said, I would also switch dealers very quickly if the one I've been going to isn't cutting it, no matter what their excuse is.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

  15. #60
    jae7373 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS 3.6 Performance AWD
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Fishers, IN
    Age
    38
    Posts
    34

    Re: 2013 2.0T 6spd stalling...

    Quote Originally Posted by bungee91 View Post
    Another thing to add to this; I don't give a shit if the car is designed to turn off at <500RPM in 3rd+ gear or not (it's still stupid BTW), my car dies in neutral when coasting to a stop. I've had the ability to watch it happen twice without it in gear, it gets to just <500 (I seem to idle bout 600 normally, so it's lower than normal) and abruptly just shuts off.
    Exactly, Stupid algorithm or not I've had the same experience in neutral.
    Quick reply to this message Reply  

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting