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Thread: Truth about 114.3 vs. 115 pattern

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    Bryce2.0T is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Truth about 114.3 vs. 115 pattern

    I know it will fit. I have seen many cars online that do it, but is it worth the risk? I have heard of lugs snapping off and wheels destroying fenders. This information coming from people who own tire shops. Has anyone here done the 114.3 and had any good luck? Or should I just stick to the ugly truth of 115 is the only bolt pattern that will fit these cars..


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    MoistCabbage's Avatar
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    If you use a rim with a 114.3 lug pattern, when you tighten the lug nuts, all of the hardened (read - fairly brittle) studs will be bent inwards slightly. Breakage is a possibility. Your call on weather or not you want to chance it.

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    Re: Truth about 114.3 vs. 115 pattern

    don't chance it ... there really is no call to make

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    Re: Truth about 114.3 vs. 115 pattern

    I've been running 114.3 with hub centric rings/adapters. No safety issues 20000 kms+.

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    AirBusPilot is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Truth about 114.3 vs. 115 pattern

    7/10th's of 1mm.

    0.0393700787 inch = 1 mm

    For ease of math, let's round to .040th's of an inch = 1mm.

    .70 x .040 = .028 of an inch.

    Meaning, each lug is being pulled inward .014 (14 thousandths) of a inch. A hair thicker than 3 sheets of paper.

    Doesn't sound like much..

    114.3mm = 4.5 inches, so it sounds like it's (or was) based on the english non metric system.

    I personally doubt it makes a signficant difference from a strength/safety perspective. A tire store would naturally discourage it, for any potential liability concerns.

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    mikesul is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Truth about 114.3 vs. 115 pattern

    Might void your warranty if damage results and dealer notices. Especially if accident results from stud failure.

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    Re: Truth about 114.3 vs. 115 pattern

    why are there different sizes then if it doesn't make a difference?
    why not just call it 114/115?

    because there is a difference and even a hair thicker than three sheets of paper (while it doesn't sound like much) does make a difference

    yes, you can probably use them with no problems as Siren's anecdotal report is evidence of
    ... but there is a risk that you're taking ... and do you really want to take that risk with your Cadillac and your life (and the lives of your passengers)?

    all it takes is a little bad luck... mix that with the bad decision to use the wrong size bolt pattern
    that's a recipe for disaster

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    Bryce2.0T is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Truth about 114.3 vs. 115 pattern

    I knew it was close, I'm just wondering if anyone here also has done this without any issues

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    Re: Truth about 114.3 vs. 115 pattern

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryce2.0T View Post
    I knew it was close, I'm just wondering if anyone here also has done this without any issues
    Lots of people have. But people have also smoked 2 packs a day for decades without getting lung disease.

    As to how big a risk this is, I "suspect" its low but it does exist. It's probably not as risky as sky diving. and definitely less risky than not leaving a 2 second gap to the car in front of you or cordless bungy jumping.

    But there is a pot hole (or other obstacle) out there that you can hit with 115s and get away and hit with 114.3s and have a wheel come off.

    I think the debates are more about people's feelings about taking an unnecessary risk and/or not wanting to be a victim of someone else's risk taking.
    Last edited by Hoosier Daddy; 08-20-13 at 01:12 PM.

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    Re: Truth about 114.3 vs. 115 pattern

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    I think the debates is more about people's feelings about taking an unnecessary risk and/or not wanting to be a victim of someone else's risk taking.

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    Re: Truth about 114.3 vs. 115 pattern

    yolololololo

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    Re: Truth about 114.3 vs. 115 pattern

    yodo

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    Re: Truth about 114.3 vs. 115 pattern

    I have a question. If having your wheels centered on the studs matters within less than 1 mm, then how can someone be sure they precisely have their wheel centered even if they have the correct size rims for that bolt pattern? It seems to me that even with the correct rims and bolt pattern, you still could be off 0.7 mm after torquing down the last lug nut, even if you are very careful to not torque down any of them too far before the others going around the wheel. Nothing is that perfect...

    ----------

    I am not saying you experienced guys are wrong. I am just sincerely asking the question.

    ----------

    By the way, I have not changed a lot of tires, but I have done it a few times. I do know about the dome shaped back of the lugs nuts, and the concave shape on rims where the lug nuts rest when torqued. So, I get it that this helps pull the wheel to where it needs to be. But I still cannot see that it can get it to within 0.7 mm accuracy... Maybe I am just missing some aspects...

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    Re: Truth about 114.3 vs. 115 pattern

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaGirl View Post
    I have a question. If having your wheels centered on the studs matters within less than 1 mm, then how can someone be sure they precisely have their wheel centered even if they have the correct size rims for that bolt pattern? It seems to me that even with the correct rims and bolt pattern, you still could be off 0.7 mm after torquing down the last lug nut, even if you are very careful to not torque down any of them too far before the others going around the wheel. Nothing is that perfect...
    Well first the wheels can be centered without the studs being centered in the holes. Two different things.

    As for how the studs get centered in the holes, the lug nuts have a taper that matches a taper in the wheel. The stud will be wedged toward the center of the hole by that taper. And that taper also effects the torque values for the nuts. The specified torque assumes an even and equal contact in the tapered area. Bending the stud toward center also means part of the tapered area has more and part has less gripping force than designed for.

    People can argue all day how important it is but having a different bolt circle definitely is not desirable. Anecdotal evidence suggests you probably won't die or damage your car, just don't complain if you are in the minority that do.

    I personally would never do it because there are plenty of wheels that meet the specs and you can even have 114.3s turned into 115s. Everybody takes risks. This is probably a small one. If you like a particular 114.3 wheel a lot for looks or price you won't be abnormal to buy them.

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    Re: Truth about 114.3 vs. 115 pattern

    Thank you, HD for your detailed explanation!

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