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Cadillac ATS Technical Discussion Forum Discussion, Regular vs. Premium Gas in Cadillac ATS Discussion Forums; Originally Posted by GJB M5eater, when you say "plan on keeping he car" how long were you thinking? I agree ...
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    Re: Regular vs. Premium Gas

    Quote Originally Posted by GJB View Post
    M5eater, when you say "plan on keeping he car" how long were you thinking? I agree that top tier premium has the detergents and additives you do not get in the "value brands". I've also been told to switch between the brands because they use different additives and there are negatives to using the same brand all the time because even the additives can have some negative qualities. Too much of a good thing scenario. Does anyone have any info on that?
    longer than the warranty period.

    Carbon buildup on valves begins to reduce performance after 10K or so. There's no avoiding it, but you can minimize it when you take the I/M off to clean (if you really want to) by using the right oil, and high quality gas.
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    Re: Regular vs. Premium Gas

    Quote Originally Posted by richardbbarger View Post
    Um, GM would allow you to own two ATS's ...

    :-)
    This way I would have my own loaner...:0

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    Re: Regular vs. Premium Gas

    Quote Originally Posted by rblack77 View Post
    I'm wondering if there is any benefit to using premium gas in my ATS. I have a 3.6 V6. The dealer said premium is recommended, but I could use either. Can I expect any benefit from premium?
    Back on the original topic...

    Your engine is calibrated for both high octane and low octane fuel. Even is premium is not recommended, you will see increases in power and fuel economy. It will probably not be enough to offset the cost of premium, but you could get a couple more hp.

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    Re: Regular vs. Premium Gas

    Quote Originally Posted by GJB View Post
    M5eater, when you say "plan on keeping he car" how long were you thinking? I agree that top tier premium has the detergents and additives you do not get in the "value brands". I've also been told to switch between the brands because they use different additives and there are negatives to using the same brand all the time because even the additives can have some negative qualities. Too much of a good thing scenario. Does anyone have any info on that?
    Sorry, I can't give any definitive references to the benefits of switching brands in order to pass different additives through your engine. However, I definitely do recall from my days on the BMW forums that switching brands in order to gain benefits from getting different additives was a good thing to do. The reasoning was the same in that by getting different additives you would be covering all the bases.

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    Re: Regular vs. Premium Gas

    Quote Originally Posted by flycaster View Post
    Sorry, I can't give any definitive references to the benefits of switching brands in order to pass different additives through your engine. However, I definitely do recall from my days on the BMW forums that switching brands in order to gain benefits from getting different additives was a good thing to do. The reasoning was the same in that by getting different additives you would be covering all the bases.
    Just going by what a friend told me, he said which made sense is that even the detergents can leave deposits so by rotating brands that use different detergents you do not build up deposits from one brand and that in theory you will have fewer deposits over time. I figure no harm rotating brands providing I use a top tier fuel. But as M5eater stated using premium will give you even more additives which would be a trade off for the additional cost, pay now or pay later...

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    Re: Regular vs. Premium Gas

    curious - what about stations that use a 10% ethanol on a 93 versus Pure gas on 94 octane for premium? My Avalanche was a e85/reg engine and man I put E85 in it and if you like the mpg sucked on gas LOL..but at 10% ethanol would you be losing some hp and mpg to a pure gas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by glenroebuck View Post
    curious - what about stations that use a 10% ethanol on a 93 versus Pure gas on 94 octane for premium? My Avalanche was a e85/reg engine and man I put E85 in it and if you like the mpg sucked on gas LOL..but at 10% ethanol would you be losing some hp and mpg to a pure gas?
    Ethanol-fueled cars (E85 - 85% ethanol/15% gasoline) get much less MPG than the same vehicle using 'straight' gasoline. This is because current engines must be made to use both gasoline and E85 because E85 isn't available everywhere. If a vehicle were purpose-built for ethanol-only, it would be much more efficient than the flex-fuel engine.

    The energy content of ethanol is about 30-35% less (per volume) than gasoline, so a 'flex fuel' vehicle will use about 30-35% more ethanol fuel compared to gasoline to do the same amount of work.




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    Re: Regular vs. Premium Gas

    Quote Originally Posted by glenroebuck View Post
    curious - what about stations that use a 10% ethanol on a 93 versus Pure gas on 94 octane for premium? My Avalanche was a e85/reg engine and man I put E85 in it and if you like the mpg sucked on gas LOL..but at 10% ethanol would you be losing some hp and mpg to a pure gas?
    What GJB said.

    As for HP, in theory you might get a little more because the alcohol in the mix is higher octane and therefore could prevent or delay the knock sensors pulling timing. That would only be true if the compromises for running a wide range of mix as JGB described don't kill some HP.

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    Re: Regular vs. Premium Gas

    If that is true - that the 10% increases the overall octane - does that mean the acutal gas in a 90/10 mix is crappier than pure gas at 93?

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    Re: Regular vs. Premium Gas

    Quote Originally Posted by glenroebuck View Post
    If that is true - that the 10% increases the overall octane - does that mean the acutal gas in a 90/10 mix is crappier than pure gas at 93?
    It could be. I can see how that might lower the cost to produce. I'll ask a guy on the Mustang forums who is in that industry. I know they don't like changing what is in the pipeline which is why brand additives are added at the end of the line. For example, the actual gas you buy at a Shell station may have come from many refineries not owned by Shell but the Shell additives were added post pipeline. If the amount of alcohol varies from place to place, that same logic would lead to all or all but the minimum alcohol being added post pipeline and therefore precluding complete elimination of any octane gain. Now that I think of it, I may recall him saying something like alcohol's hygroscopic properties being a problem for gas pipelines. Alcohol also has a greater cooling effect which could also help horsepower even with equal effective octane of a mix.

  11. #26
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    Re: Regular vs. Premium Gas

    Quote Originally Posted by glenroebuck View Post
    If that is true - that the 10% increases the overall octane - does that mean the acutal gas in a 90/10 mix is crappier than pure gas at 93?
    I would think that the octane rating on the pump is the rating of the fuel already mixed being delivered at the pump. As an example let’s say 91 octane pure gas mixed with 10% ethanol could = 93 octane. The point I’m trying to make is all the adjustments would be made at the distributor to achieve the desired ratings for additives and ethanol mix. Lets see what Hoosier comes back with from the Mustang forum.

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    Re: Regular vs. Premium Gas

    FYI:

    A question came up on the Cadillac forums about gas/alcohol blends at the pump. Since alcohol has a higher octane than the gas in the mix, is the octane of the gas in the mix ALWAYS/NEVER/SOMETIMES lowered to meet the advertised octane? It would seem to reduce costs by using lower octane gas but then again it might be cheaper to not be changing what's going thru the pipelines as often if the alcohol is added post pipeline like the brand additives.
    That's actually a very interesting question that I had to ask around to get the answer. Yes, the octane of the gas in a gas/ethanol mix is lower than the the equivalent pure gasoline would be. Ethanol has an octane of about 116 so in theory they could mix E10 using 84 octane gas (90% 84 octane plus 10% 116 octane produces 87.2 octane) but in practice they actually use 85 or 86 octane to ensure that the end result never drops below 87 at the pump. The 85 octane gasoline is basically the same fuel they used to ship to high altitude markets so it's not really a new formulation. Similarly, 91 octane gasoline (a formulation used in many parts of the country) when blended as E10 becomes 93.5 octane sold as 93 "premium" fuel.

    Ethanol is not shipped through the normal pipeline channels because of its affinity for water. Normally, when a pipeline is used to ship multiple products consecutively (i.e. gas, diesel, kerosene, etc.), a water "plug" is inserted between the different products in the pipe because gas and water don't mix. But adding ethanol to the gas changes that because the ethanol would absorb the water "plug". So the ethanol is added after the fuel leaves the pipeline instead.
    So it sounds like they do often use lower octane gas in the mix but for convenience of not making a special octane gas (and to maintain the target even after more of the alcohol evaoprates), the mix IS higher octane than what it says on the pump but could be as litle as .5 octane.

    I thought of this later. He doesn't mention the impact of the densities (if that's the correct term) of the components. I suspect that you lose volume when you mix gas and alcohol just as you do when you mix water and alcohol (e.g. a pint of alcohol and a pint of water combined are well short of 2 pints.). I'm sure the loss is much lower with gas and alcohol. But it would make a difference if E10 means 10% alcohol BEFORE mixing or 10% of the combined volume AFTER mixing. To say another way, mixing one gallon of alcohol and 9 gallons of gas could be described as 10% alcohol, but could also be argued to be more than 10% because there is one gallon of alcohol in it but the total is less than 10 gallons.

    Interestingly, his last sentence makes me wonder if ALL 93 octane pump gas is E10.

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    Re: Regular vs. Premium Gas

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    FYI:
    Interestingly, his last sentence makes me wonder if ALL 93 octane pump gas is E10.
    Good question I can't remember the last time I saw a pump that did not have the 10% ethanol sticker on it. I would think its dictated by EPA and states. I would bet it depends on whatever is most profitable within the law to the oil companies rules that decision

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    Re: Regular vs. Premium Gas

    yikes - great deal of opinion here. But has anyone actually run an experiment as to whether it makes sense to use premium fuel on the 2.0? I just took delivery (less than a week) and I haven't even had the pleasure of filling 'er up. Cadillac "recommends" it?

    Anyone notice any discernible difference? Thanks.

    ps love the car!

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    Re: Regular vs. Premium Gas

    Quote Originally Posted by celmem View Post
    yikes - great deal of opinion here. But has anyone actually run an experiment as to whether it makes sense to use premium fuel on the 2.0? I just took delivery (less than a week) and I haven't even had the pleasure of filling 'er up. Cadillac "recommends" it?

    Anyone notice any discernible difference? Thanks.

    ps love the car!
    Someone posted lower power on a dyno. And that make sense since boost increases cylinder pressures to generate power. The higher the pressure, the more octane is needed to avoid detonation/knock. Regular can only be used because the car can sense the knock and reduce timing which reduces power. So if you find the car isn't fast enough on regular, put premium in it. But since no car can ever be fast enough, I have no first hand experience.
    rand49er and celmem like this.

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