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Cadillac ATS Technical Discussion Forum Discussion, Pfadt ATS tune review in Cadillac ATS Discussion Forums; Originally Posted by derek98z Wow stock numbers are shameful the gains are all that matters. im beginning to think the ...
  1. #16
    sonny@bnr is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    re: Pfadt ATS tune review

    Quote Originally Posted by derek98z View Post
    Wow stock numbers are shameful
    the gains are all that matters. im beginning to think the tranny is making these cars loose allot of power to the wheels

  2. #17
    bluhaven's Avatar
    bluhaven is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    re: Pfadt ATS tune review

    What was the AFR on these runs compared to stock?

    Kevin

  3. #18
    Nite_Hawk is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    re: Pfadt ATS tune review

    The stock numbers on his run are the best I've seen so far. Get a nice fmic and boost pressure might drop, but power will be made.

  4. #19
    roadpie4u is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    re: Pfadt ATS tune review

    Quote Originally Posted by ATSturbo View Post
    Thanks for the support, I worded this review up to stress what Pfadt Racing is like a vender because I was genuinely impressed with what I found with them

    I will definitely keep everyone posted on how things are going with my car, and for starters I've found that my MPG has shot up from 25.4 MPG to 26.8 MPG since the tune, what a pleasant surprise
    A few questions - do you intend to get the Pfadt intake or downpipe? Are you considering any other mods? Do you plan on doing any other logging/dyno sessions as the weather shifts? Can you log the intake temperature at all and/or MAP values?

    ...and... a tow hitch? The the rear bumper "diffuser" that looks out of place like I wouldn't even imagine!

    Now for armchair maths!

    272hp/260tq (stock crank)
    to
    218hp/235tq (stock wheels)
    (20%/10% loss)

    This reinforces my belief that the ATS has issues with either breathing up top, heat soak, or both. While the transmission is partially to blame, the shocking drop in power over 4500rpm says that the engine (as it came from the factory) has potential but needs upgrades. We know the turbo is undersized and the factory tune just turns flat above 4500rpm anyway.

    250hp/290tq (tuned wheels)
    to
    312hp/322tq (tuned swag crank)
    (+40hp/+62tq)

    Without extra ducted airflow on the dyno, the power levels above 4000rpm drop off just like stock and lose all sense of urgency and the gains nearly vanish. My gut has been telling me that airflow and the stock turbo have been the limiting factor on the ATS since day 1 and this reinforces it. Heck, this dyno reminds me of a stock LT1 or L98 dyno graph. Huge swell down low.... then it sorta waddles off at high RPM. I bet superimposed over one another, the LTG makes more power pretty much everywhere.

    Anyway, I want to stick some thermocouples on the intake track, intercooler core, turbo compressor housing, and throttle body - either the setup is having massive breathing issues or heat soak is setting in (or both) and I want to quantify those numbers to verify it. I want to see if an intake helps out the tune, then what a downpipe does with said intake.

  5. #20
    turbo2.0 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    re: Pfadt ATS tune review

    great review! where did get the dyno done? I am suppose to go to 21st Century next weekend after I get my tune updated. It will be fun to see the difference between what I did with just the tune compared to the Pfadt intake and downpipe I have on now. I can say for sure the car runs a ton better with the two pieces!

  6. #21
    ATSturbo is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    re: Pfadt ATS tune review

    Quote Originally Posted by roadpie4u View Post
    A few questions - do you intend to get the Pfadt intake or downpipe? Are you considering any other mods? Do you plan on doing any other logging/dyno sessions as the weather shifts? Can you log the intake temperature at all and/or MAP values?

    ...and... a tow hitch? The the rear bumper "diffuser" that looks out of place like I wouldn't even imagine!
    Yes, I will review separately the Pfadt Racing intake, downpipe, intercooler, and exhaust when they arrive, all separate with what my thoughts on them and I'll take pictures as well, I'm looking forward to the intercooler especially

    I'm still thinking about the Pfadt EFR turbo kit, as although it doubles the power of the stock ATS, I'm already pretty satisfied with the current power that the Pfadt tune gave me

    That tow hitch I got for free to review from the manufacturer, I really like being able to now hang a bike rack off of the back of the car and its been very well constructed and the installation was straightforward and only took an hour, but it rubs everywhere on even the slightest of inclines and it just causes me to cringe everytime I approach a parking garage hoping for the best. I do have to say that despite rubbing everywhere and its still held together pretty well and besides the powdercoating coming off from where it rubs, its a pretty solid piece. I'll review that in a month or so.



    Quote Originally Posted by bluhaven View Post
    What was the AFR on these runs compared to stock?
    It ran slightly richer than stock


    Quote Originally Posted by Nite_Hawk View Post
    The stock numbers on his run are the best I've seen so far. Get a nice fmic and boost pressure might drop, but power will be made.
    I think the car runs nice already stock, with more power and the transmission tune its really a lot more fun to drive
    Nite_Hawk likes this.

  7. #22
    Pfadt Engineering is offline Authorized Vendor PLATINUM
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    Re: Pfadt ATS tune review

    Quote Originally Posted by ATSturbo View Post
    Yes, I will review separately the Pfadt Racing intake, downpipe, intercooler, and exhaust when they arrive, all separate with what my thoughts on them and I'll take pictures as well, I'm looking forward to the intercooler especially

    I'm still thinking about the Pfadt EFR turbo kit, as although it doubles the power of the stock ATS, I'm already pretty satisfied with the current power that the Pfadt tune gave me
    We're excited to hear back from you on the individual components. Thanks for taking the time to write up such a thorough review!

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by roadpie4u View Post
    ....This reinforces my belief that the ATS has issues with either breathing up top, heat soak, or both. While the transmission is partially to blame, the shocking drop in power over 4500rpm says that the engine (as it came from the factory) has potential but needs upgrades....
    Very good observations, we couldn't agree more. The car has so much potential, but there certainly are a few oversights by GM holding it back!
    Aaron Pfadt
    Pfadt Race Engineering
    888-972-2464
    www.pfadtracing.com
    info@pfadtracing.com


  8. #23
    WRXtranceformed is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Pfadt ATS tune review

    Currently looking at a 2.0T ATS and would likely get it tuned...+50ft lbs on an otherwise stock car is a huge increase. That gives me a lot of hope for modifying that car!

  9. #24
    ATSFL is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Pfadt ATS tune review

    is there any new information regarding this tune FROM Pfadt? how much more boost over OEM is this tune? what is AFR? what is the manufacturer's claim at rwhp/tq? come on guys, you're paying to advertise on this forum; let's get some information.

    i apologize in advance if i've missed this information being posted.

  10. #25
    ATSturbo is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Pfadt ATS tune review

    One of the other users on the forums, Hoosier Daddy, asked some great questions in another thread, and I thought that I'd copy them here:


    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...tune-2-0l.html


    Like always, his questions were insightful, and this particular question was regarding why the Pfadt tune does not lose any power over stock on the top end or over 6500 RPM:


    Quote Originally Posted by ATSturbo View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    Hi, can you explain why the run started at over 3500 RPM? Also what gear were they done in?
    Great questions as always, the dyno pulls were all done on 4th gear. The 3500 RPM was LateModelRacecraft's choice as Jay@LMR operated the dyno.

    I do have to note that my car has an automatic transmission, which may have factored into the 3500 RPM start on the dyno. 4th gear on the 6L45 has a 1.16 ratio with 5th being 0.85, so its not a 1:1 like 5th gear on the manual. 5th gear would have hit ~180MPH on the dyno.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    The reason I ask is that even with 70 MPH airflow, the temps in these engines at full throttle rises dramatically in a very few seconds and the power then falls off significantly. Making pulls starting at high RPMs like those gives results very different than ones beginning in the 2k range or in the real world.
    You're absolutely right about the exhaust gas temperatures rising very rapidly in the LTG engine and then heat soaking the turbo as a few others on CF has found.

    My car has an automatic transmission though, and if I were to floor the car the engine does tend to rev past 3500 if not start from 3500 RPM, corresponding with the real world results that are noticeable when driving my car.

    From what I understand, the Pfadt tune is designed around the specific configuration of Pfadt hardware and the car that its going onto, and based on their comprehensive development procedures.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    Someone can argue they will never give full throttle below 4K RPM but if their dynos runs are based on that concept, they are useless for comparison to any other full RPM range dyno pulls in a high gear.

    I'm used to seeing some tuners doing things like that to make things look better than real world, but I have the impression you paid for the dyno runs at an independent shop and if so am curious if they informed you about that.

    You're probably referring to the issue where past 6500 RPM tuned cars tend to lose power against their stock dyno runs due to heat soak. When I asked the Pfadt engineering team this question, they've stated that unlike most other tuners they do not just max the wastegate (maxing the turbo) and then applying timing based on what they find.

    All turbochargers have a compressor map that when the compressor map efficiency has been exceeded, will heat soak exponentially for not a lot of airflow gains. Pfadt from what I understand have based their tune on the specific compressor map of the turbo by flowing the turbo in their in house flowbench and then have kept the turbo in its efficiency range and then adding additional timing at the edge of that map.

    So from what it sounds like, with the Pfadt tune, not only will the turbo lifespan be longer, the engine will run cooler, and at higher RPM there will not be a significant power loss from the stock tune.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    I'm used to seeing some tuners doing things like that to make things look better than real world, but I have the impression you paid for the dyno runs at an independent shop and if so am curious if they informed you about that.
    On an unrelated topic, does your car also have an automatic transmission?


    I think the question that you're alluding to is about why the Pfadt tune does not appear to lose power past 6500 RPM or so and if starting from a higher RPM has somehow negated that loss.

    I've asked this exact question before to all of the tuners that I've found at the time when I was shopping around for a tune and Pfadt was the only tuner that had an answer for this scenario. From what I understand, they have tested comprehensively to account for the tradeoff between boost vs timing, and even with the power gains that they have, they're not always running the turbo at full boost.


    There are only so many people on these forums that are capable of asking the right questions, and you are definitely one of them. I will try and answer any other questions with the exception about the AFR on my car, as I've been asked to not disclose that information. I can say that it is running slightly richer than stock though.

    Update: I've since install have put almost another 3000 miles onto my ATS and the Pfadt tune has been pretty consistent despite the Texas heat.

    I've got a P35 package now sitting in my garage and I'm just waiting for my appointment at LMR for the install. It includes a carbon fiber intake, stainless downpipe, and I've also got an intercooler on order from Pfadt.

  11. #26
    Dave3283's Avatar
    Dave3283 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Good read, thanks for the post. As a result I'm going to check out the services of Dasilva Motorsports here in southern Ontario. They are on the contact list from pfadt.

  12. #27
    Siren05's Avatar
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    Re: Pfadt ATS tune review

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave3283 View Post
    Good read, thanks for the post. As a result I'm going to check out the services of Dasilva Motorsports here in southern Ontario. They are on the contact list from pfadt.
    I contacted them and although I haven't purchased yet they were very helpful and I will buy and install thru them

  13. #28
    ATSturbo is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    No issues after 20,000 miles since Pfadt tuned

    I've got the P35 Package installed now and it definitely picks power: my ATS has been absolutely reliable with the Pfadt tune no matter how hard I drive it. Its been a good 20,000 miles since I've had the tune and I've had no problems with the car.

  14. #29
    Hoosier Daddy's Avatar
    Hoosier Daddy is offline Moderator
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    Re: Pfadt ATS tune review

    I've removed the previous 3 posts that were off topic.

    If a thread is about a specific vendor's products, do not go off on a tangent and do NOT post about how you feel a competitor you use is better. Keep those things in threads about that vendor's products. Also remember that the forum rules do not permit linking to vendors who are NOT registered with these forums. Thanks.

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