When the 6L45E start to break in modifying; Speculation
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Cadillac ATS Technical Discussion Forum Discussion, When the 6L45E start to break in modifying; Speculation in Cadillac ATS Discussion Forums; I'm interested in what people might imagine what the upper limits of this trans will be, given that there are ...
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    M5eater's Avatar
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    When the 6L45E start to break in modifying; Speculation

    I'm interested in what people might imagine what the upper limits of this trans will be, given that there are no real references to draw from to gauge. It will be interesting to find out when 2.0T owners start throwing big turbos into the mix.

    The 6L45E is used in various 3 and 1 series vehicles, but ultimately it's a weaker variant of the 6L50E which is the trans used in the LFX Camaro and 2nd gen CTS (read: the same engine, only a few hundred pounds heavier).

    It omitts 1-2 clutches from certain drums and fewer pinions on the planetary gears.

    There are no aftermarket stall converters.

    No Aftermarket Clutch pack upgrades. (that I'm aware of)

    here's GM's technical brief on the trans.

    http://gmpowertrain.com/VehicleEngin...nProducts.aspx

    Maximum engine power: 278 bhp ( 208 kw )
    Maximum engine torque: 258 lb-ft ( 350 Nm )
    Maximum gearbox torque: 278 bhp ( 208 kw )--- this of course seems to be a typo. Torque is not measured in BHP..

    Now, this is assuming that you're using the trans with a GVWR on the trans missions maximum which is much higher than what the ATS actually has;
    Maximum Gross Vehicle Weight: GVW*: 5620 lb ( 2549 kg ), GCVW*: 9300 lb ( 4251kg ) *For reference only. Not applicable to a specific application/td>

    However, stroll over to the 6L50E's ratings and you'll find maximum gearbox torque at 480ft/lbs for a 6600lb GVW vehicle.
    6L50E technical specifications.
    Maximum engine power: 315 bhp ( 235 kw )
    Maximum engine torque: 332 lb-ft ( 450 Nm )
    Maximum gearbox torque: 480 lb-ft ( 651Nm )

    We can assume, based on some simple math that maximum gearbox torque for the 45E is between 360-410ft/lbs.

    Now, let's give the ATS a generous GVWR (or rather, use the 3.6's GVW) 4615lbs.

    If you say that this is 18% below the maximum GVWR rating for the trans, and then add that back into the maxium torque/bhp figures listed we end up with;

    Maximum engine torque; 302ft/lbs
    Maximum engine power: 328bhp

    There's probably some variance to these numbers of course. I find it hard to imagine that they shoved the 3.6 into a trans that can just barely handle it. Yet, they also clearly use the 50E for the same engine in a car that weighs 300lbs or so more, and the 45E weighs between 10-25lbs less than the 50E(read; weight concerned ATS engineers) .

    My guesstimate; 300-330 wheel ft/lbs and the trans will really start to fall apart. I wonder if anyone knows what kind of experience the Camaro people have with the 50E. I further wonder, if swapping to a 50E might be a possibility.


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    Siren05's Avatar
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    Re: When the 6L45E start to break in modifying; Speculation

    I'm past 330 tq and every gear holds fine

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    Re: When the 6L45E start to break in modifying; Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Siren05 View Post
    I'm past 330 tq and every gear holds fine
    You're at more than 330 torque to the wheels? That would be fantastic to hear, do you have your dyno sheet?

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    Re: When the 6L45E start to break in modifying; Speculation

    I did not say rwtq. But flywheel.

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    Re: When the 6L45E start to break in modifying; Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Siren05 View Post
    I did not say rwtq. But flywheel.
    okay, I'll bite. How did you measure your torque at the flywheel? And like M5eater, I would like to see the sheet.

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    Re: When the 6L45E start to break in modifying; Speculation

    Educated guess based on cadillac nose standing upon full throttle

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    Re: When the 6L45E start to break in modifying; Speculation

    eh, I've seen so much HP speculation on past forums, It'd be nice to see a cold hard Dyno sheet from a RWD or AWD car that has been tuned.

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    Re: When the 6L45E start to break in modifying; Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo Supremo View Post
    eh, I've seen so much HP speculation on past forums, It'd be nice to see a cold hard Dyno sheet from a RWD or AWD car that has been tuned.
    May be ill,dyno her today!

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    Re: When the 6L45E start to break in modifying; Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo Supremo View Post
    eh, I've seen so much HP speculation on past forums, It'd be nice to see a cold hard Dyno sheet from a RWD or AWD car that has been tuned.
    One has already been posted by Hoosierdaddy for me. This was done in Feb with 250 miles on the car. Use search for his posts and you will find it.

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    Re: When the 6L45E start to break in modifying; Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo Supremo View Post
    eh, I've seen so much HP speculation on past forums, It'd be nice to see a cold hard Dyno sheet from a RWD or AWD car that has been tuned.
    I just broke 1500 miles on the 2.0T, I'm going to see if the old Mazda gang wants to get another dyno run together.

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    Re: When the 6L45E start to break in modifying; Speculation

    I'm still waiting for BNR/Trifecta to give me results on datalogs I sent after my updated tune!

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    Re: When the 6L45E start to break in modifying; Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo Supremo View Post
    eh, I've seen so much HP speculation on past forums, It'd be nice to see a cold hard Dyno sheet from a RWD or AWD car that has been tuned.
    Exactly. Without dyno sheets, there is no way to make an informed purchase decision. And even then it takes some work to translate those into the areas under the curve for the RPM ranges you would use in each gear for max acceleration. So the whole dyno sheet is needed, not just peak numbers which don't mean much by themselves, particulaly with a boosted engine.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Siren05 View Post
    May be ill,dyno her today!
    That would be good. Please post as high of resolution pics of the graphs as practical. A spreadsheet would be even better. Please include A/F ratio graphs.

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