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Cadillac ATS Technical Discussion Forum Discussion, My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car? in Cadillac ATS Discussion Forums; If you were driving a front wheel drive car before the ATS will take a little getting used to....
  1. #31
    Caddy Chris is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car?

    If you were driving a front wheel drive car before the ATS will take a little getting used to.

  2. #32
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    Re: My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caddy Chris View Post
    If you were driving a front wheel drive car before the ATS will take a little getting used to.
    You're right about getting used to RWD after driving a FWD car, but I have been driving BMWs for the last 11 years...all RWD.

  3. #33
    jph
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    Re: My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car?

    did all of them have a LSD, while your ATS does not?

    how far did the rear actually step out? how sharp was that turn? how fast did you go in?
    did you use the brake after turn-in?
    did you have to catch and save the slide? or did the rear just do a little dance and the car just kept going?


    J.

  4. #34
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    Re: My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car?

    Quote Originally Posted by jph View Post
    did all of them have a LSD, while your ATS does not?

    how far did the rear actually step out? how sharp was that turn? how fast did you go in?
    did you use the brake after turn-in?
    did you have to catch and save the slide? or did the rear just do a little dance and the car just kept going?
    J.
    None had LSD.
    Going normal safe speeds on turns. The turns were at intersections, and the slippage occurs when giving a little gas (read again, slight acceleration...which I believe is the proper way to come out of a turn) as I'm coming out of the turn. At this coming out of turn point and only when on a wet road, the rear will not dance, but just slip out a little in the direction opposite the turn. The car's front end tracks normally while the back catches up. As for catching the slide, that is a little more difficult to answer as it has been a few days since I've driven on a wet road andI don't quite remember. Best I can say is that just a little slippage is scary and I think that I would take my foot off the gas for an instant until the car's rear grabbed the road.

  5. #35
    jph
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    Re: My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car?

    if your car has no mechanical defects, i'm going to guess that;

    you applied too much throttle for the wet road, and your traction and stability control kept the back end in check after it wanted to step out.


    J.

  6. #36
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    Re: My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car?

    Quote Originally Posted by jph View Post
    if your car has no mechanical defects, i'm going to guess that;

    you applied too much throttle for the wet road, and your traction and stability control kept the back end in check after it wanted to step out.


    J.
    I tend to agree with your deduction. However, I wonder how come I'm among the almost 0% who also report slippage? I mean, I know that I am a safe driver and don't take intersection turns at speed, so why is this happening to me and essentially no one else? I'm sure most drivers accelerate slightly when coming out of a turn, but yet no slipping reported. This is all so counter-intuitive.

  7. #37
    jamboarder is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car?

    Sorry, I'm just not buying it. Just coming out of a Seattle winter with my ATS with performance tires and if this is really happening as the OP describes, I would expect that I would have experienced it at least once through the entire wet Seattle winter. Not once. Hell, I would assume that Cadillac engineers would have experienced this in wet weather testing. I would assume that a vehicle so inherently unstable as the OP describes would simply have failed to pass basic approval tests - shouldn't even be on the market for sale.

    Sure I can get the rear end to step out if I get on the throttle too hard coming out of a turn when its wet - that ain't normal wet road driving and it doesn't take special skill to not do that.

    But since the OP has let slip that he has had the same thing happened when driving his 325, then what other reasonable conclusion could there be other than the problem being the driver. Either the driver doesn't realize there is something wrong with his driving or the driver doesn't know what the rear end sliding out feels or looks like. I'm not saying that to be mean, but this just isn't adding up to anything else. Paired with the hyperbole of the title and the original post, as well as the casual lack of urgency in getting the car to the dealership, the very car that the OP considers dangerous to drive...

    Hey if I'm wrong I really do hope you get your car fixed ASAP. I suppose I object on some level to the fact that you appear quite excited to declare this an ATS issue when nothing in my experience, in anyone else's experience, through the many reviews the ATS has undergone even vaguely hints at the existence of such a fundamental problem.

  8. #38
    zedsded is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car?

    I think that you're probably really low on blinker fluid. These cars are precisely tuned for their 50-50 weight balance. Being out of fluid would cause the rear of the vehicle to be heavier and want to 'come around' in turns.

    Should be a quick fix.

  9. #39
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    Re: My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamboarder View Post
    Sorry, I'm just not buying it. Just coming out of a Seattle winter with my ATS with performance tires and if this is really happening as the OP describes, I would expect that I would have experienced it at least once through the entire wet Seattle winter. Not once. Hell, I would assume that Cadillac engineers would have experienced this in wet weather testing. I would assume that a vehicle so inherently unstable as the OP describes would simply have failed to pass basic approval tests - shouldn't even be on the market for sale.

    Sure I can get the rear end to step out if I get on the throttle too hard coming out of a turn when its wet - that ain't normal wet road driving and it doesn't take special skill to not do that.

    But since the OP has let slip that he has had the same thing happened when driving his 325, then what other reasonable conclusion could there be other than the problem being the driver. Either the driver doesn't realize there is something wrong with his driving or the driver doesn't know what the rear end sliding out feels or looks like. I'm not saying that to be mean, but this just isn't adding up to anything else. Paired with the hyperbole of the title and the original post, as well as the casual lack of urgency in getting the car to the dealership, the very car that the OP considers dangerous to drive...

    Hey if I'm wrong I really do hope you get your car fixed ASAP. I suppose I object on some level to the fact that you appear quite excited to declare this an ATS issue when nothing in my experience, in anyone else's experience, through the many reviews the ATS has undergone even vaguely hints at the existence of such a fundamental problem.
    This and possibly the fact that the title of this thread is designed to be inflammatory and sensationalist: because really, if the car was dangerous to drive, as you pointed out earlier, the OP should not be chairing a forum discussion, but should rather be having the car towed to the dealership and taken apart for serious inspection. Hopefully, the car has not been driven since the original post, since it's dangerous.

  10. #40
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    Re: My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car?

    Vulcanization & Compounds:
    [url]http://www.tirecradle.com[/

    Low profile tires with high, speed ratings tend to vulcanize rather rapidly. This occurs at about twice the rate of a 'regular' tire. There are several reasons for this; the first is the compounds that must be used in most of these tires, they have a finite number of heat cycles and harden with each heating and cooling. Also, they will vulcanize with age. That is, you don't have to drive the car much for the tire to vulcanize; just let the tire get old and it will get hard. Tire vulcanization and its' dangers have been addressed elsewhere in this web site.

    The bottom line in performance tires is this; most people buy tires with a far higher tread life than necessary and the tires vulcanize well before they are worn out. This creates a dangerous situation as the vulcanized tire compromises traction while cornering, braking and accelerating. you would do well to consider the UTQG tread wear factor when you buy your next set of performance tires.

  11. #41
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    Re: My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car?

    Quote Originally Posted by zr1mom View Post
    Vulcanization & Compounds:
    [url]http://www.tirecradle.com[/

    Low profile tires with high, speed ratings tend to vulcanize rather rapidly. This occurs at about twice the rate of a 'regular' tire. There are several reasons for this; the first is the compounds that must be used in most of these tires, they have a finite number of heat cycles and harden with each heating and cooling. Also, they will vulcanize with age. That is, you don't have to drive the car much for the tire to vulcanize; just let the tire get old and it will get hard. Tire vulcanization and its' dangers have been addressed elsewhere in this web site.

    The bottom line in performance tires is this; most people buy tires with a far higher tread life than necessary and the tires vulcanize well before they are worn out. This creates a dangerous situation as the vulcanized tire compromises traction while cornering, braking and accelerating. you would do well to consider the UTQG tread wear factor when you buy your next set of performance tires.
    I give up.

  12. #42
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    Re: My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car?

    well OP, if it comforts you, I will say that strolling along one of the lessor ATS reviews this morning on the way to work(carpooling) I noted that the host mentioned in pouring rain that the tail liked to step out even with modest acceleration. It may very well be simply a high engagement point TCS in combination with all-season RFT's that just plain suck. .

    If you really enjoy the car otherwise, my suggestion would be(presuming the dealer has checked and verified there's nothing actually wrong) to upgrade to summer tires. You live in FL, so you'll never really need all seasons anyway.

  13. #43
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    Re: My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car?

    Quote Originally Posted by flycaster View Post
    I tend to agree with your deduction. However, I wonder how come I'm among the almost 0% who also report slippage? I mean, I know that I am a safe driver and don't take intersection turns at speed, so why is this happening to me and essentially no one else? I'm sure most drivers accelerate slightly when coming out of a turn, but yet no slipping reported. This is all so counter-intuitive.

    Check your tire pressures. Check your rear tires for uneven wear. Sorry, it seems no one else has this issue so you are either extremely sensitive to any small slippage of a tire or your rear tire pressure are way off.

  14. #44
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    Re: My car is dangerous to drive: Tires or car?

    Quote Originally Posted by M5eater View Post
    well OP, if it comforts you, I will say that strolling along one of the lessor ATS reviews this morning on the way to work(carpooling) I noted that the host mentioned in pouring rain that the tail liked to step out even with modest acceleration. It may very well be simply a high engagement point TCS in combination with all-season RFT's that just plain suck. .

    If you really enjoy the car otherwise, my suggestion would be(presuming the dealer has checked and verified there's nothing actually wrong) to upgrade to summer tires. You live in FL, so you'll never really need all seasons anyway.
    Hey, M5eater (BTW, what's your drive that eats the M5?), good to know that I am not hallucinating about this slippage stuff (LOL) and that at least some ATS drivers are noting this. Hard to tell after getting so many sarcastic responses to this issue.

    I'm inclined to agree with you about the tire/TCS combination and the possibility that this is confounded by the degree of acceleration when coming out of the turn. Also, a previous poster discussed how the tires can harden due to vulcanization and thus loose some of the gripping characteristics. Certainly possible, but as this is a new car with hopefully new tires, I don't think this variable is at work.

    I do hope it rains before I take the car to the dealer on Friday, so that I can test between no acceleration and slight acceleration through wet road turns.

    Thanks for your reasonable comments.

  15. #45
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    thebigjimsho is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    I will say that the F1 Supercar EMTs that came stock on the V1 were awful in the rain. Stabilitrak kept it from.stepping out, but it would want to. A stiff sidewall with poor wet surface ability will snap quickly.

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