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Cadillac ATS Technical Discussion Forum Discussion, KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI in Cadillac ATS Discussion Forums; No, that is not what you should take from the chart. Refer to the dyno disclaimers in the original post. ...
  1. #31
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    Re: KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI

    No, that is not what you should take from the chart. Refer to the dyno disclaimers in the original post. You won't get a fixed HP or torque increase from a tune because air temperature, etc.. have a huge effect. 100+ temps in Phoenix sap a huge amount of power from my ATS and Syclone. Yes, I got 46 extra lb/ft but if they did the exact same pulls in February, the increase could have been 60+ (for example). Secondly different dynos and different types of dynos read drastically differently. But The gains were consistently 20% until the high end where some other factor than temps kicked in. The best theories so far is that's all the turbo, and/or exhaust can do (percentage wise) at high RPMs.

    So I think the best we can extrapolate for other conditions is a 20% increase for the meat of the powerband. In other words, if you take the factory 272 rating (at the crank) after this tune, my engine runs like a 32x HP engine would, at least in the RPMs that were seeing 20% increases from the tune.

  2. #32
    HighElevation is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    No, that is not what you should take from the chart. Refer to the dyno disclaimers in the original post. You won't get a fixed HP or torque increase from a tune because air temperature, etc.. have a huge effect. 100+ temps in Phoenix sap a huge amount of power from my ATS and Syclone. Yes, I got 46 extra lb/ft but if they did the exact same pulls in February, the increase could have been 60+ (for example). Secondly different dynos and different types of dynos read drastically differently. But The gains were consistently 20% until the high end where some other factor than temps kicked in. The best theories so far is that's all the turbo, and/or exhaust can do (percentage wise) at high RPMs.

    So I think the best we can extrapolate for other conditions is a 20% increase for the meat of the powerband. In other words, if you take the factory 272 rating (at the crank) after this tune, my engine runs like a 32x HP engine would, at least in the RPMs that were seeing 20% increases from the tune.

    Hi! Thanks for the explanation, do you mean this dyno graph?



    Thats even better, I was going to say that 22 Eng Power and 45 Eng Torque is okay for me already, my last car when tuned did not feel like it was any faster. It was not a turbo car though.

    I am in albuquerque, new mexico, and we too have 100F days, the last few days were a relief from the heat thanks to the rain. So the heat we've got as well. I don't know about more power in february because there might still be snow in places around here in jan/feb.

    What is the gas like in arizona? The gas in new mexico is pretty crappy, and I don't know if I can always find premium to fill up on. What would happen with this tune if regular grade was used? Will I have engine damage?

    And if I add this tune to my car, will different ethanol in the gas cause engine damage as well?

    I've emailed KPE and still don't have anything back from them, do you have a phone number that I can reach KPE at? Or maybe a different email address of someone in sales?

  3. #33
    mikesul is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI

    With lower rated gas most likely timing will be pulled as knock is sensed. End result less hp.

  4. #34
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    Exclamation Re: KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy
    No, that is not what you should take from the chart. Refer to the dyno disclaimers in the original post. You won't get a fixed HP or torque increase from a tune because air temperature, etc.. have a huge effect. 100+ temps in Phoenix sap a huge amount of power from my ATS and Syclone. Yes, I got 46 extra lb/ft but if they did the exact same pulls in February, the increase could have been 60+ (for example). Secondly different dynos and different types of dynos read drastically differently. But The gains were consistently 20% until the high end where some other factor than temps kicked in. The best theories so far is that's all the turbo, and/or exhaust can do (percentage wise) at high RPMs.

    So I think the best we can extrapolate for other conditions is a 20% increase for the meat of the powerband. In other words, if you take the factory 272 rating (at the crank) after this tune, my engine runs like a 32x HP engine would, at least in the RPMs that were seeing 20% increases from the tune.
    Quote Originally Posted by KPE
    Performance results:

    ATS 2.0 Turbo - 72-81 RWHP (climate and altitude dependent)



    22 HP IS EXACTLY what the dyno graph says.

    Its like 100+ Fahrenheit ambient temp easily in florida, and plenty of other places. Sure it might pick up another HP or two if its not 100+, but for a LOT of people, 22 HP is it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy
    So I think the best we can extrapolate for other conditions is a 20% increase for the meat of the powerband. In other words, if you take the factory 272 rating (at the crank) after this tune, my engine runs like a 32x HP engine would, at least in the RPMs that were seeing 20% increases from the tune.

    "Extrapolate"? Please do not "extrapolate" 50 HP from what the graph reads, which is 22 HP gained.

    What this graph should be explained as is THIS:




    At the "meat of the powerband" or where you're most likely going to be at for daily or routine driving, as in do you regularly spin your motor to redline? NO. Most people are going to be at around the idle to 2500 RPM range for fuel economy and just driving around.

    Before 2400 RPM, at FULL THROTTLE you gain 20 ft/lbs of torque, and at part throttle it might not even be noticeable.

    So to summarize the findings, this tune gains 22 HP. Which is okay for some people. You can "extrapolate" all you want, but the truth IS the truth.

    Thanks for listening.
    Attached Images
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  5. #35
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    Re: KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI

    Quote Originally Posted by HighElevation View Post
    Hi! Thanks for the explanation, do you mean this dyno graph?



    Thats even better, I was going to say that 22 Eng Power and 45 Eng Torque is okay for me already, my last car when tuned did not feel like it was any faster. It was not a turbo car though.

    I am in albuquerque, new mexico, and we too have 100F days, the last few days were a relief from the heat thanks to the rain. So the heat we've got as well. I don't know about more power in february because there might still be snow in places around here in jan/feb.

    What is the gas like in arizona? The gas in new mexico is pretty crappy, and I don't know if I can always find premium to fill up on. What would happen with this tune if regular grade was used? Will I have engine damage?

    And if I add this tune to my car, will different ethanol in the gas cause engine damage as well?

    I've emailed KPE and still don't have anything back from them, do you have a phone number that I can reach KPE at? Or maybe a different email address of someone in sales?
    I only buy tier 1 gas so I don't know how other gas around here is. 91 Octane is the highest you see at the pump. By law, gas here for road cars has alcohol in it. I think that's normally for smog control so that might not be a factor where you live. So no pure gas here although I understand they might have straight gas at marinas and I've seen race gas at one station for $10/gal.

    I was told this tune is for 91 octane only. I asked what happens if you end up with lower octane and they said if bad enough it will ping and if you ignore it and push hard you can have detonation. They specifically said that the knock sensors are not disabled or ignored so it sounds like the knock sensors can't pull enough timing to prevent detonation within this tune with low octane but also that you would have to conciously decide to ignore the pinging prior to it.

    KPE would have to tell you the impact of more or less ethanol would have on their tune. Ethanol has a higher octane than the gas it's mixed with but of course they make the effective octane match what ever the fuel is sold as. But Ethanol also absorbs more heat as it vaporizes than gasoline does so the more ethanol, the cooler the engine will run. The reason tuners like BNR publish results using E85 tunes when almost no customers will use it is for the higher octane (which allows more timing and more boost) and more cooling which makes their results look better than they would get with gas.

    I'll PM you Andy's phone number. But they aren't open on weekends.

    ----------

    Sorry High, for some reason there is no option to PM you. I'm reluctant to post person specific phone numbers where bots can scrape them. When I was there last Wednesday, the office doors were still locked at 10 AM so maybe try calling the numbers on the web site after 10 AM MST (AZ doesn't do DST) tomorrow.

  6. #36
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    Re: KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI

    Sorry we haven't responded to this thread earlier, but we have been busy dealing with plenty of satisfied customers! The PEAK hp and tq gain we saw on Hoosier Daddy's car was 33whp and 47lb-ft.

    ------

    In terms of the "meat of the powerband" comments, the largest gains are seen from about 3000rpm to 4600rpm. We would definitely consider this the "meat of the powerband" because this is where you are going to be when accelerating from a stop or merging into traffic on the freeway. Also people that are going to be purchasing our PowerTune are not exactly concerned with driving at or around idle to watch their fuel consumption. We have an EcoTune for those that are looking strictly MPG gains.

    ------

    In regards to our initial whp and tq claims, those were achieved on a European model engine and when applied to the Cadillac ATS, we were not able to achieve those number and still keep the engine in a safe operating parameters

    ------

    If anyone ever has any questions or comments please feel free to email either myself, Ben, or my manger, Andy, and we will be glad to answer them for you. My email is ben@kpe-products.com and Andy's email is andy@kpe-products.com .


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  7. #37
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    Re: KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI

    I'd love to chat with you HighElevation. Tried sending you a PM but I guess you can't receive them yet. Shoot me an email at ben@kpe-products.com and I'll answer any question you have!


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  8. #38
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    Re: KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI

    What was the AFR on this tune/pass?

    Kevin


  9. #39
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    Re: KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI

    I will try and get the owner to open up this saved dyno file and get me the AFR info for you guys!


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  10. #40
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    Re: KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI

    Hey guys, we found some ways to squeeze a few more WHPs out of the 2.0T tune. Here is the new dyno graph!
    Attached Images


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  11. #41
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    Re: KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI

    And here is a dyno graph for the ATS 3.6L
    Attached Images


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  12. #42
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    Re: KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI

    And if anyone will tell me why I cannot post them as pictures instead of attachments that would be great! I would like to make them bigger so you guys can really see them!

    -Ben


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  13. #43
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    Re: KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI

    Well it's obvious that the 2.0T is the way to go vs. the 3.6DI. The 3.6 will never (without turbos) get to the potential level that the smaller engine can produce. Sure glad I opted for the 2.0T.

  14. #44
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    Re: KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI

    Yeah, can't really see the results. Gets too blurry when trying to enlarge. Can you post what the dyno shows?

  15. #45
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    Re: KPE and IPF Tuning Performance Upgrades - ATS 2.0T and 3.6L DI

    Atsco - I would love to post up a larger image but for some reason why I try to link a picture it wont let me upload one and hence the reason I had to add it as an attachment. Any ideas for me?! I initially thought it was because it was a bmp file so I converted it to a jpeg but alas, still a no go!

    -Ben


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