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Cadillac ATS Technical Discussion Forum Discussion, Why only 6 cogs? in Cadillac ATS Discussion Forums; just because they're dated doesn't mean that they should (or need to) be replaced (although GM surely will replace them ...
  1. #31
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    Re: Why only 6 cogs?

    just because they're dated doesn't mean that they should (or need to) be replaced (although GM surely will replace them as mentioned earlier)

    i read a review of the ATS the other day that said that the 6-speed in the ATS performed almost as good as the DCT in the german car that they drove the day before
    the journalist was very impressed by the 6-speed to say the least
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  2. #32
    OffThaHorseCEO is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Why only 6 cogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by youknooow View Post
    Skipping?
    Yes in the same way that even manual corvettes force you to skip gears under most circumstances.

    Most vehicles now are programmed to skip to the overdrive gear unless theyre being driven spiritedly.
    This is done for fuel economy, which is one of trollOP's reasoning for an 8000 speed transmission. An example is 1st gen SRX i have which has "sport shifting". Upon activating sport shifting the display tells you what gear youre currently in as well as the gear you just shifted too. Just out of curiosity i moved the lever over during normal driving to see what gear i was going to. Unless i was driving it intentionally hard, the trans ALWAYS shifts directly from 2nd to 5th gear. Now, if the 8000 speed transmission are gonna be skipping from 2nd gear straight to 8000th gear, wont you feel kinda dumb knowing you have 7997 gears you rarely use?

  3. #33
    LS3 MN6 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Why only 6 cogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by youknooow View Post
    EXACTLY, so stating $$$$ as a reason NOT to improve GM's/Caddy's transmissions is BS. GM's 6 speeds are good, but DATED.
    Im sure you understand an 8-speed transmission doesn't materialize out of thin air. Currently most advanced non-engine tech (electronics) are developed by suppliers. While you may not want to believe it (and OEM's will try to tell you otherwise) most internal automotive systems are the same or similar from OEM to OEM. This is because as a supplier you try to maximize the "recycling" of existing products. So I can sell x parts to OEM 1, and y parts to OEM 2, and z parts to OEM 3 and some of those parts are shared therefore I have large economies of scale. When I'm an OEM I can only sell to myself. Therefore my economies of scale are reduced.

    I have to develop my own engines (or partner with one other OEM to do this) because I need something unique as my supplier parts are (as stated) basically the same as other companies. So unless you buy your transmissions (as many OEM's do) from suppliers you basically have to justify spending money on them.

    Ford and GM co-developed the Front Wheel Drive 6-Speed and GM has no one to co-develop an 8-speed with, and no suppliers to buy an 8-speed from (other OEM's sucked up the capacity) so now they have to slowly develop their own. It takes time. Especially because GM was late to the party with the 6-speeds.

    GM is almost always late to the party with powertrains. So many cars have launched with old powertrains or staggered powertrains. Even the ATS 2.0T comes out later! Silly GM.
    M5eater and M5eater like this.

  4. #34
    buttfish77 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Why only 6 cogs?

    How much later?

    Quote Originally Posted by LS3 MN6 View Post
    Im sure you understand an 8-speed transmission doesn't materialize out of thin air. Currently most advanced non-engine tech (electronics) are developed by suppliers. While you may not want to believe it (and OEM's will try to tell you otherwise) most internal automotive systems are the same or similar from OEM to OEM. This is because as a supplier you try to maximize the "recycling" of existing products. So I can sell x parts to OEM 1, and y parts to OEM 2, and z parts to OEM 3 and some of those parts are shared therefore I have large economies of scale. When I'm an OEM I can only sell to myself. Therefore my economies of scale are reduced.

    I have to develop my own engines (or partner with one other OEM to do this) because I need something unique as my supplier parts are (as stated) basically the same as other companies. So unless you buy your transmissions (as many OEM's do) from suppliers you basically have to justify spending money on them.

    Ford and GM co-developed the Front Wheel Drive 6-Speed and GM has no one to co-develop an 8-speed with, and no suppliers to buy an 8-speed from (other OEM's sucked up the capacity) so now they have to slowly develop their own. It takes time. Especially because GM was late to the party with the 6-speeds.

    GM is almost always late to the party with powertrains. So many cars have launched with old powertrains or staggered powertrains. Even the ATS 2.0T comes out later! Silly GM.

  5. #35
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    Re: Why only 6 cogs?

    You should see an 8 speed GM transmission within the next 2 years.

  6. #36
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    Re: Why only 6 cogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by youknooow View Post
    EXACTLY, so stating $$$$ as a reason NOT to improve GM's/Caddy's transmissions is BS. GM's 6 speeds are good, but DATED.
    Hey, 1 of 3 Black Ice w/ Tango Red STS-V owner. SHUTIT! While your car's engine is dead, my DATED SBC powered CTS-V is kicking the German's ass.

    You are just one of those frontrunners that just have to own the newest thing, huh? Because it's newer automatically makes it better, right? Huh? Please...

  7. #37
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: Why only 6 cogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by youknooow View Post
    EXACTLY, so stating $$$$ as a reason NOT to improve GM's/Caddy's transmissions is BS. GM's 6 speeds are good, but DATED.
    My 6-speed Tremec is DATED, but excellent. If I could say the same thing about the shifter and clutch that attaches it to me and the car, I would be

  8. #38
    wrcknkrw is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Why only 6 cogs?

    Why switch to an 8 speed if the 6 works great and gets good mileage? With my chevy truck the newer 6 speeds don't get any better mpg then the 5 speed auto in my truck.

  9. #39
    youknooow is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Why only 6 cogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by RippyPartsDept View Post
    just because they're dated doesn't mean that they should (or need to) be replaced (although GM surely will replace them as mentioned earlier)

    i read a review of the ATS the other day that said that the 6-speed in the ATS performed almost as good as the DCT in the german car that they drove the day before
    the journalist was very impressed by the 6-speed to say the least
    why is almost and good acceptable? this is a brand new vehicle from the ground up, whats up with this complacency?

  10. #40
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: Why only 6 cogs?

    It's not complacency. By all accounts, the ATS has the most advanced chassis on the planet. To the driving enthusiast, that is far more important than an 8-speed transmission that may or may not work as well as a 6-speed.

  11. #41
    youknooow is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Why only 6 cogs?

    [QUOTE=thebigjimsho;3045682]Hey, 1 of 3 Black Ice w/ Tango Red STS-V owner. SHUTIT! While your car's engine is dead, my DATED SBC powered CTS-V is kicking the German's ass.

    ::Looks around the room to figure out who he think he is talking to::

    "thebigjimsho" look state ya opinion on whatever, but don't wreck-less with what you type...

    Let me educated you, this is a forum for discussion of a variety of topics and a fundamental requirements is to read and then comprehend. I stated my opinion of the inherent benefits of going with more cogs than 6 or employing a newer technology for better shift times (performance), have you ever heard a BMW snap through its gears, or see a chart of how conventional automatic shift really lengthen acceleration numbers? So no, not the newest thing but the best of what available.

    One of the reasons my hand built gem is dead is because of costs, so yes it was a smart move to go into the parts bin and utilize a engine that costs less but delivers more but when twin turbo engines can easily produce more power with better fuel efficiency, maybe your engine should be dead as well.

  12. #42
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
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    Re: Why only 6 cogs?

    my point was that if the journalists are impressed with GM's 'dated' 6-speed and how it performs compared to your preferred 'newer technology' then why is your opinion on this matter more important that the journalist's?

    have you driven in a 2013 ATS yet?
    have you compared the shift times?

    it's my opinion that you're making too many assumptions without enough knowledge to form an educated hypothesis and on top of that it's really only your opinion anyway
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  13. #43
    RippyPartsDept's Avatar
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    Re: Why only 6 cogs?

    nothing wrong with having an opinion - just don't get all bent out of shape when people try and tell you that your opinion is just an opinion and doesn't line up with the facts

    especially when they've got the data and info to tell you why
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  14. #44
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    8 is not automatically better than 6, period. The fact yooooouuudontknow claims that it automatically is is a farce...

  15. #45
    youknooow is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Why only 6 cogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by RippyPartsDept View Post
    my point was that if the journalists are impressed with GM's 'dated' 6-speed and how it performs compared to your preferred 'newer technology' then why is your opinion on this matter more important that the journalist's?

    have you driven in a 2013 ATS yet?
    have you compared the shift times?

    it's my opinion that you're making too many assumptions without enough knowledge to form an educated hypothesis and on top of that it's really only your opinion anyway
    Again reading is fundamental, I have stated my opinion and why I feel that way and people have stated theirs, isn't that the reason of this "discussion board"? Or does everyone have to agree?

    Nope have not driven the ATS, but never commented on that car's performance but I did comment on the general performance of its shift box, which is not new.

    Are you serious, its pretty common knowledge that traditional autos cannot shift as fast as DCT

    Actually my logic is sound, with more ratios you can improve fuel economy because of the taller gears that are available. More gears allow better drivability because the shift box has more ratios to choose from to make the most of what the engine is putting out. DCTs simply shift faster, PERIOD. so have you actually read what I posted or are you just more focused on disagreeing?

    This has all been proven when GM went from 4-5-6 speed boxes.

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