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2013 help with purchase, I value your opinion!

5K views 48 replies 13 participants last post by  Ragtop 99 
#1 ·
My wife got in an accident and totaled the 2003 cts (she is fine), long story short we need a new car for her. I am looking at a used 2013 ats and want to spend no more than $18-19 cash


I have found two options in my area (Indy) and wanted your thoughts

There is one that is verified pre owned for $20k with 38k miles

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/656141711/overview/


Another with 11k miles that is about the same price

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/659267847/overview/


I like the certified pre owned in the first version, but also like the low miles on the second option.. Really need help and thoughts here! Again, I want to spend $18-$19k cash out the door nothing more.. Thoughts on driving the price down as well?

Thanks for all the help!
 
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#3 ·
Notice how the ATS is 7" shorter than your CTS, with a smaller trunk and less back seat space. There are several recent topics, where the poster is asking what to think about or look at when buying a used ATS. You should review those. Also test drive and have your wife test drive. IE the seats are niceer in the Lux compared to base and nicer yet in the Perf/Prem.

You might be able to get the lower mileage car certified.
Normally you can get a lower price than what is advertised.
Check KBB.com WeBuyAnyCar.com , etc to get an idea of the
wholesale and retail costs.

Notice that the 13k mile car is the much slower 2.5 engine and RWD.
The higher mileage car has the 2.0 Turbo and AWD.
Both seem to be the Base car, but I can't say for sure.
The 2.0 + AWD options are $2,000 each when new.
 
#6 ·
I like this option, what would it cost to make this car CPO? Is that typically something you can do?

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Check for heated seats, which are an option.
Most have them, but a few may not.

If a low end base model, it might not have CUE, if you want that.

Also look at 2014 for more to choose from. They will cost more, but be worth more later on. They should have fewer problems, fewer recalls and another year warrenty.
Really looking to spend $19 max
 
#8 ·
As mentioned above, please test drive both cars and see what you and your wife feel and like.

That being said, following is my opinion, which might different from yours:

I would not buy any of them. The low mileage one is a 2.5 liter I-4 non turbo. Some people might find the power "adequate," but not me. I would buy 2.0 liter turbo or 3.6 liter V-6. Also the price tag is HIGH for a 2.5 liter ATS.

As for the second one, it has a better engine. However, it is base base model. And it is kinda expensive for what it is.

You should be able to find a luxury-trim ATS with 2.0 liter turbo engine with reasonable miles for below $20K. But I don't know how much is Tag, Title, Tax in your area. With your budget, you are right at edge of being able to buy a clean 2.0 liter turbo ATS with luxury package. If you keep looking and negotiating with the dealers, you might be able to get the car at your price range. It all depends on how eager or desperate the dealer is to move the car out of its lot.
 
#9 ·
Thank you I will keep this and mind and try to get the best deal, I do need to find something soon as we are down to one vehicle.

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Depends on who you're buying from really. One dealer told me it was going to cost $2750. The dealer I bought from accepted my ridiculously low offer on the car so when he asked for 1200 to certify I accepted it gladly!

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Also the 11k mile car is NOT leather. Neither of those two are but the second is advertised as leather. No ATS is ALL leather but these aren't leather equipped at all based on the VIN.

H2G = INTERIOR TRIM CONFIG VINYL, LEVEL 1, JET BLACK INTERIOR TRIM(H2G)
Thank you for the note, I did not know the certified option was not leather as I have not seen it in person yet, this changes a few things
 
#11 ·
Nah theyre going to get all the cash up front anyway. As a matter of fact they make money if they're the ones who set you up with financing. Maybe negotiate with them and if they try to lead you to financing for a better deal, take it and then pay it off immediately assuming you're not going to pay any extra JUST to finance. (Like origination fees)

Look up Edmonds true market value and go from there. I offered just a little over what edmunds listed as trade in value for my car. The dealer jumped at it so I'm sure they lowballed the person who traded it in.
 
#12 ·
The base car's imitation leather is pretty good, and could fake you out if you didn't know it. I would be more concerned with other options you may really want. You can refer to the oldest ATS brochure on the website for the features that come with each level of ATS. Look at the oldest year they have listed. The standard options have not changed much at all between 13 + 14.

It looks like you should only need to pay in the $1200-1500 range to add on CPO. If they ask for a lot more, verify if that is because it needs work to pass the inspection, like brake pads, tires, etc.

Since you are buying used, also think about a 2013 CTS. It will give you more room and some should be in the same miles range and could have more options than a base ATS.
ATS is good option if your wife likes sports cars, with firmer ride and quick cornering.
 
#13 ·
Personally, I think you can do better on a standard trim, maybe even a Luxury. I echo other's comments on the motor--the 2.0T is an awesome motor & certainly worth the difference if you can swing it. At your price point, you're not far off of what I'd part with mine for & it's a Premium (and for sale in Indiana btw). You are so close on the dollars that I'd hold out for at least a Luxury 2.0 if possible.

Another observation from the pics: It sure looks like quite a dent in the left rear fender on the Silver Coast one? If so, factor in some money for repair right off the bat, too. Since you're using insurance money, I presume you don't have a trade-in to offset the sales tax......that'll burn about $1200 of your money, so you're really looking at a sale price more in the $16,500-$17,500.

All in all, you're looking at a good model, and one that gives tremendous value as a used car so "good choice". Now it's just a matter of finding the right one. Sometimes budgets can't stretch, I know, but in your case I think an extra 2-3k would let you score a significantly better ride. I'll be interested to see how this works out for you, as I've been in your shoes many times myself.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I am able to swing 20 even 21,000 MAX out the door if the car is right.... Again in a though position as the wife needs the car sooner rather than later, I may be able to hold out for another week. She looked at cars and wants an LTZ Cruze 2015 for about $16-18.... I would rather her have the ATS for long term reasons.

We had our 03 CTS until 200k and I'm currently In 11 coupe
 
#15 ·
If your wife does not drive like she stole it, the 2.5l motor will be fine. It's not for me, but it would work well for my wife and lots of others that just want a nice car. It's the interior options I'd be concerned about. Heated seats, heated steering wheel, parking sensors, or NAV if they matter to you.
 
#18 ·
You have a valid point in terms of comparison between the old V6 in 1st gen CTS vs. the new 2016 ATS with NA I-4. However, compared to today's standards, and compared to the rest of the engines, the base 2.5 liter I-4 is slow. But again, many might find it "adequate" for their needs.
 
#22 ·
It's hard to believe that a salesman would pass on a potential sale. I would call the GM of the dealership. I bet that will get you all types of attention and maybe a better deal.

You would think it would be important to follow up on leads. I stopped in and did my test drive Saturday with my private offer email I received I asked the salesman (who knows me by name now and who I worked with on my ATS) about a CTS that they had on the lot and told him I was interested especially with the extra 4K off I had from the private offer email. He said he'd work the numbers and call me on Monday. It's Wednesday and I haven't had a call yet. The offer is only good until the 29th.
 
#24 ·
I would call the dealer, talk to the sales person you were doing business with, and say I have 21 out the door.

Most they can say is NO, be prepared to go a little higher only if you feel you want to.

If they think that you are serious they will bend maybe they won't bend that much but that all depends on how much money they have tied up in the trade.
 
#26 ·
I offered $22k out the door and was denied, i was given an out the door price of $25,840

is my offer out of line? Does everyone else pay sticker?

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Well I decided to call lockhart Cadillac greenwood and attempted to setup a test drive, also asked about adding CPO to the car since it currently doesn't have it.... It is a lux 2013 turbo... The sales person got my name and number and said he'll call me back. That night I received a general email stating that the dealership would contact me shortly.... I waited a day and never heard anything, I emailed twice today while at work and it seems like they don't want my business.

The wife and I are going to test drive a 15 A3 in the next couple of days, hopefully our experience and customer service is better.
Lockhart Cadillac will add CPO to this $21k model, and it will be out the door at 23,500.... I told them $22 is my ceiling that i can do....
 
#25 · (Edited)
I honestly personally think that's a good price for that vehicle. I would however, go in, test drive the vehicle, find any flaws and then start your offer at 20,400. You have a budget you want to stick to and taxes and tags will bring the price up quite a bit.

On the other hand, you could find out what the tax rate is and what tags, title and admin/doc fee or whatever they call it is. Decide your final top out the door budget and then subtract the tax and tags doc from that. Set your initial offer lower than that and hopefully close the deal under your final number, but if all else fails, close it at your final number.

Edit: wow the doc fee is only 175. In North Carolina there's no limit to it and it's generally 599
Edit 2: apparently edmunds true market trade-in value for the car, zip code and mileage is 19958. Obviously they could have paid more, or less, but just keep in mind that 19 is probably very close to bottom dollar on it.
 
#27 ·
did you do it over email or in person?

i started my negotiations in an email, asked for "best out the door pricing" and was always given list price plus doc fees tax etc. basically "the best price we can give is the one we have listed"

email shoppers are understandably not taken as seriously as someone SITTING IN the dealership with payment in hand and ready to make a deal. That why i said test drive it then make your offer. i know its more time consuming but otherwise youre going to continue to get counter-offers like ethe one you got. Also, remember that it IS just a counter-offer, not the end of negotiations. if 22k is the highest you can go, take that as a lesson to start your offer lower next time to leave room to come up.
 
#28 ·
At a lot of dealers, the salesmen get paid a % of the profit, so they may not lower the price to what the sales manager might lower it to, just to get rid of the car.

If you haven't yet, price the cars you are looking at through KBB,
Edmunds, Webuyanycar, etc, to get a general idea of wholesale(about what they paid) and retail(about what the max you should pay).

Also get an Itemized price, so you can see if you are getting a good price on the car, but maybe with a big CPO fee or big dealer prep fee.
Maybe they add some option you might not want.
 
#32 ·
At a lot of dealers, the salesmen get paid a % of the profit, so they may not lower the price to what the sales manager might lower it to, just to get rid of the car.
I sell heavy equipment and also make a % of the profit, I also realize that a high profit (commission) of no sale = $0. Reality is both the salesman and the sales manager have the same interest in maximizing profits and moving equipment.

I would never negotiate over the phone or by e-mail. If you are sitting in the car, holding your checkbook, there is no way you are leaving that dealership without the car. Make your offer and stick to your guns. Remember they want to sell that car more than you need to buy it. You can always try another dealer who may be more motivated than this one.
I agree about over the internet not being the best but I prefer to do it over the phone. The "there is no way you are leaving the dealership without the car" to me tells the dealership you won't leave without the car, so they turn it into a run around, too much time wasted, and them trying to "break" you by making you wait for hours to get something done. If I decide to do it in person in the future it will be with the "here is my number, you have 15 minutes to come back with something or I am headed out". They will be there all day regardless of how quickly they operate, I won't.
 
#29 ·
I haven't read the other replies, but I don't think I would even look twice at the 2.5 regardless of the low mileage. Plus, there very well may be a reason it has such low miles ... less than 4K per year. The 2.5 just doesn't have enough horsepower or torque to suit me.

Looks like the other one has about one year warranty left, and the mileage should run out about the same time the time does. I don't know how much, if any, time and mileage being a CPO adds (I bought a Corvette that was CPO and it's warranty was for 2 years, 24000 miles and included "free" servicing for that time period).

Neither car says what trim level it is. Some can tell by just looking but I can't. So that might be a consideration for you too.

I can't help but think the 2.0T would make you happier. BTW ... the ATS is smaller than the CTS that was totaled, but to me it's much more agile. We have an ATS, and one of our friends has a CTS ... and I like ours a lot more.
 
#30 ·
I would never negotiate over the phone or by e-mail. If you are sitting in the car, holding your checkbook, there is no way you are leaving that dealership without the car. Make your offer and stick to your guns. Remember they want to sell that car more than you need to buy it. You can always try another dealer who may be more motivated than this one.
 
#33 ·
I've had better luck when I have been to the dealership, rather just only deal with them over the phone / internet. When you're there in person, they know you are serious. Phone and internet seem a little better when buying new as there can be multiple cars with zero miles and the exact same options. Price shopping is easier when there are 5 identical cars within a 30 mile radius, so you can say make me the offer or I'm calling the next guy. Used low volume cars are tougher to cross shop. Plus I want to see it. I worked a deal on one car and drove 140 miles to pick it up. Thought I had negotiated a good deal until I saw the scratches in the paint that didn't show in the photos and other problems. Drove home without that car.
 
#35 ·
What I meant about not leaving without a car is that I go in knowing what I am willing to pay. I make them aware of this and that they can do the deal or I'm walking. They always (at least my dealer) do the deal with in a few dollars due to tax,title and fees. What I didn't realize with my car is that there were only three performance models within 100 miles. If I had walked I would have been hard pressed to find another. But this is my 5th car from this dealership and they know when I come in, that I'm a buyer.
Another bargaining tool is to find out the car has been sitting on the lot. The dealer pays floor plan on in stock cars and you can use that to motivate them.
 
#36 ·
The 3.6 Luxury at about $1,000 more looks like a good option, but I can't see all the options.

Luxury has better seats plus other standard features that you have to decide if you want and need. Check on heated seats, sunroof, CUE, better Bose, Nav, tires, condition of the car, etc.
 
#37 ·
Your wife is accustomed to driving a Cadillac and would probably like to continue in one. I doubt she has ever fully experienced the full potential of your CTS so the engine in the ATS shouldn't be a factor. Appearance and options are most important. If she takes a test drive and likes the car then it's deal done. On the other hand, if you are a potential driver of the car and your wants and needs are different, then you have decide if you can find a car that suits both of you. For an every day daily driver for her alone should be an easy decision.
 
#38 ·
Correct this will be for her alone, and with that is a huge reason why i wanted the LUX version

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I think i found a decent priced AWD LUX! 2013, 29k miles.... listed at $19

does anyone have a carfax account? I want to make sure there hasnt been an accident etc.... VIN 1G6AH5RXXD0147445 I can ask the dealership but rather would like to know more about the car before i test drive.

I have a good friend who has bought 6 cars from this dealership and feels they may be able to work out a cash deal for me...

http://coasttocoastimports.com/details/2013_CADILLAC_ATS LUXURY_SEDAN/1G6AH5RXXD0147445
 
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