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Any ATS owner been to race track?

9K views 33 replies 15 participants last post by  rsingl 
#1 ·
Hi, I own CTS4 Wagon that I DD, and I'm seriously considering to pick up ATS-V probably at the end of next year as my DD AND Track car. (so I can sell my Corvette and pick up something as a true weekend toy car)

I happen to have ATS4 2.0T with me today and I have track day tomorrow, so I decided to check out ATS's chassis on track.

What should I expect? (obviously, it being AWD version, it's AT, so some random shifting is inevitable, I guess) Anyone experienced overheating? (I ran my CTS once on the track, and it overheated, and went into limp mode)
Does anyone know which fuse I should pull to disable AWD?


Having all season tires, AWD, and automatic, it won't be as much fun as Corvette, I would imagine, but trying different car on track is always fun.


On a side note, I still don't like the HVAC/Audio controls - I want some physical buttons. I wish they would do this little differently before ATS-V hits the market.
 
#2 ·
i took a loaner ats 2.5 on the track and it was very impressive. the AT was slow to respond. leave it in sport mode and dont bother with manual mode. its so slow to respond that its not worth it. in sport mode PAL engages very well and it actually works better than manual mode. the car i had (2.5) was super underpowered but in the turns it handles amazingly. very surprisingly. even with the all season tires, it somehow grips just fine. it had the none MRC suspension which still did just fine.
 
#4 ·
I'd leave the AWD, it can't hurt, I have a feeling that car is going to amaze you on the road course. I can't wait to get mine out there.

I am loving the manual mode, with the awesome rev matching on downshifts, but I'd agree that leaving it in Sport mode should suffice. Disabling Stabilitrac/TC will let it get a little loose if/when you want it too as well.

I'd love to hear what you think about it afterwards :)

Good luck!
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the response.
The reason why I wanted to disable the AWD was because I hated the crazy understeer of CTS4 in mid-corner.
With all season tires, all wheel drive, and being heavy wagon, my CTS4 was pushing like crazy.
Hopefully, lighter weight of ATS will behave better on track.

About the Stabilitrac: I turn off active handling on my Corvette. Speaking of Stablitrac, would holding the TC button long (like 5-8 sec.?) turn it off like on Corvettes (C6) and CTSs?
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the response.
The reason why I wanted to disable the AWD was because I hated the crazy understeer of CTS4 in mid-corner.
With all season tires, all wheel drive, and being heavy wagon, my CTS4 was pushing like crazy.
Hopefully, lighter weight of ATS will behave better on track.
H
About the Stabilitrac: I turn off active handling on my Corvette. Speaking of Stablitrac, would holding the TC button long (like 5-8 sec.?) turn it off like on Corvettes (C6) and CTSs?
the rwd model has virtually no under steer that I have found yet, and it's a little tail happy even with TC on if you push it. It also has 50/50 weight balance, which will really shine out there.

And yes...hold the TC button for about 5 seconds and you'll see the stabilitrack off light come on.

Enjoy.
 
#7 ·
I would not compare an ATS to the older CTS at all. My 2.0t rwd handles brilliantly. I'm sure there will be understeer, but dial that out as much as you can with tire pressures and your line.

As far as I know, to completely defeat the nannies (at least on our car), you press the TC button once. Then you press and hold it for 5 seconds. That should put you out on your own. Enjoy!
 
#8 ·
OK, here is the report on my "ATS experience on track".

Day started out with rain. I got 2 sessions in rain, 1 session in damp condition, and 1 session in dry, so although it was not a perfect track weather, it was great opportunity to try out a car in different conditions.
Knowing that I'm driving underpowered automatic AWD, with all season tires, I signed up to run in intermediate group.
(I have videos of first 3 sessions - I'll post it on YouTube and post link here later)

In rain, I was able to pass literally everyone in the group. Cold rainy weather and All season tires with AWD were perfect match. I was sliding around a lot in corners but it was very controllable.
Brakes were stopping nicely, and I also found shifting logic very satisfying (I left in Sport mode Auto - didn't shift manually, taking donavo's advice), comparing it to CTS's shifting logic.
In damp condition, it was pretty much same story. I could rotate the car with throttle pretty easily.
(oh, all nannies were off - holding TC button for about 5 sec.)

In dry, car started understeer a lot, mainly due to lack of tire grip on front - corner entering speed got lot higher and tire just couldn't keep up. If it had decent summer tires, it could've been lot more fun.
Brakes were holding up better than I expected - I thought it would all melt away in dry session, but I had plenty left.

Overall impression:
1. Nimble chassis - very well balanced front and back. not too heavy as my CTS4 Wagon. :yup:
2. Could use some more power - for 4 banger, car was running pretty good, but I wish it had about 150ish more...
3. Need better tires, and RWD version for track use - again,, I don't like the mid-corner push. It wasn't too bad, but it could've been better
4. Good shifting (for automatic - still prefer manual), good stopping (for small OEM brake setup), good steering feel
5. Stiffer shock for track use would be nice.

Now I'm really anxious to see ATS-V. :thumbsup: (ATS-V will have all items from my wish list above)
 
#9 ·
thats an awesome review, thanks. I can't wait to get mine out there.
Is it safe to assume the car you drove had the Brembos?
I'm also happy to hear you enjoyed the A6...I was hoping you would not be entirely disappointed :)

As for needing more power...well, that's too easy on the 2.0t. Tuning will add an easy 40 rwhp or more, and can help make the trans even better. Then there's a simple turbo upgrade...

Thanks for sharing.
 
#10 ·
Unlike the people here who have manual "mode" I actually have a real stick:hide: and I've taken it to the road courses here numerous times this summer, twice to Mossport int. raceway. I'm blown away with the performance of this car, absolutely a stellar track car. I love turning off the nannies completely and getting that ass end squirrely!
 
#12 ·
DiabloMike: glad you enjoyed my review. If the car was mine, I'd be calling Pfadt racing for turbo/intake/tune/shock/sway bar upgrade and put some sticky summer tires. :)
About the brake - I'm not 100% sure, but the caliper seemed decent size, so I would guess that was Brembo one.


Stevo: As much as I would love manual for track, this A6 in Sport mode wasn't bad at all. It held its gear during the corner (which wasn't the case in my CTS), and it constantly kept the RPM range in 3,000-3,500ish in braking with rev matching. I haven't been to Mosport yet - I'm in MI so it's not too far. Maybe someday... (most likely I'll be bringing corvette though)



If and when I remember to take my GoPro out of the bag, I'll upload the video. --- I think I would make ATS owners proud with the video since that ATS4 2.0T was passing all the race prepped cars. (I think I passed 1 Panoz race car as well.. :D)
 
#13 ·
I took the GoPro out of my race gear bag finally. :)
I'm uploading it onto YouTube as I type - I have 3 and half session worth of videos (battery died on 4th session), but instead of trying to upload them all, I'll put one with "rain", and one with "damp-starting to dry" session.

Meanwhile, here is the list of the cars I passed I could confirm from 4 videos:
Lotus Elise & Exige, Supra, BRZ (or FR-S... don't remember. I passed a few of them), Mustang GT & GT500, Evo, Audi S4, Miatas, S2000, 350Z, M3, Panoz Race car, Integra (race prepped), Prelude (race prepped), Corvette (it hurts to pass my beloved Corvette with baby Caddy:xgrin:), Camaro (not current model)...
I "almost" passed McLaren MP4-12C: I was catching up to him in 4th session, and if I had one more hot lap, I could've gotten him, but they checker-flagged. :banghead:
It was cool to see such a car running on the track - those cars are meant to be driven hard, but 99% owner of those cars just don't use the car as it's meant to be used, so even though the owner wasn't one of the greatest driver I've seen on track, he still gets my respect. (I'm sure once he figures out how to use the full capability of his car, I'll be eating his dust, even in my Corvette with slicks on)
 
#15 ·
Wow. That is awesome, I cant wait to see these vids.

I feel you on the MP4-12C. I'm fortunate to live in south Florida, where we see exotics on the road constantly, but its really cool to see one at the track. A few months ago, a few buddies were at PBIR drag racing, and there was a Bugatti Veyron there running on the road course. My buddy with a CTS-V went over and told him his brother wanted to race the Veyron in his GTR...jokingly. The dude said, oh, cool, am I allowed to run it down the dragstrip too? Lets go.

Not only did he run it against the GTR, he ran it 3 times, each time working to get the launch control down pat. It was awesome.

My ATS is maybe days away from getting strapped to the dyno here for some much needed tune development, and I plan to have the turbo 'worked over' locally for some extra swoosh. Planning a nice set of wheels (on the fence about 18s vs 19s), and some stickier tires for sure. Once the brakes are a little more worn, I'll upgrade the pads (wonder if I can get the dealer to install them under scheduled maintenance ;)?), but I don't think I'm going to throw any more at the suspension for now. This car is likely more capable than I'll ever be, maybe on the next one :)

----------

dam dude it baffles me how u could pass all those ppl. ive only been on the track once and even from that, i get so amazed at other peoples racing skills. thats amazing.
there is no question driver skill plays a large part in that, but even if it was Tommy Kendall in the ATS passing all those cars with a bunch of average drivers in the rest, it would still be damn impressive :)
 
#16 · (Edited)
Veyron on race track??? Man,,, I'd love to see that!! Heck, I haven't even seen actual Veyron in person yet.

I wouldn't call myself 'fast driver' by any means - I just have enough of experience on track to be faster than some. I know there are tons of better driver than me out there (obviously Tommy Kendall one of them :) ) I just enjoyed driving ATS out on the track that day - hopefully, I didn't hurt some other drivers' ego too much.
- funny thing is, one guy was sitting behind me during drivers' meeting and was talking to his friend: "did you see the Cadillac out there? It's not even CTS-V, so I don't know what it's doing here. Hope that car isn't in my group" (don't remember every single word he said, but this is pretty darn close to what he said). Sure enough, I was in his group, and I passed him almost every single session, and I enjoyed passing him. (I shouldn't tell you which car he was driving, but you will see his car in the video)

Here is the first video I uploaded (it took more than 2 hours to upload... I should've edited it or resized the file...): Enjoy~~! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRqxpsGWfD0
 
#23 ·
Thanks for the videos... I enjoyed watching them!I have a question! Was there any car that could keep up with you? Also why the other drivers were slowing down so much in the corners? It was their car's limit, or drivers were chicken, or both? :p

And I suspect that the guy who was talking about the ATS, was one of those Mustang drivers or maybe the Z's driver?
 
#18 ·
CTSChick: Thank you for fixing the link.

Ladies (assuming you are, judging by your ID) love the look of Lotus Elise/Exige - they are cute, I know... :)
But, once they get ride in it, they usually don't like it. - there is nothing that can be called interior or comfort feature. Those cars are built for one thing: Track Time!! If you like it even after getting a ride in it, Car Guys will love you more. :D
 
G
#20 ·
I have driven an Exige and Evora the interior is perfectly fine for some of us chicks, A/c, Mp3 stereo is plenty.
The Evora had a Nav, and backup cam
All good to me I have been in race cars with only heat and defrosters. :)
 
#25 ·
CTSChick: You are probably more hard core than I am. :eek: I like fast cars, but I want it be 'drivable' on street, and want 'some' comfort in car.
Before I picked up Corvette, I was seriously considering Elise, but the one I test drove had manual window, and no stereo, if I remember correctly. (it was orange color. Very cute little car.)
Those are go-karts for the street, and it's fun to drive for sure!


Bryce: If you were neck-and-neck with C5 on dry pavement, you were definitely better driver than the C5 driver was. :cool2: I've raced C5 coupe before I moved onto C6, and comparing ATS's and C5's capability, I would say C5 driver should've had advantage over you. ATS is very capable car for sure, but I would still say C5 should be a bit faster on road course. Now, when ATS-V comes out,,, it will probably be faster than C5Z06.


DiabloMike: Glad you enjoyed the video. :) And thanks for the video link. I expected Bugatti to be faster than GT-R (or anything on the street today for that matter) but that was amazing!!! BUT,,, as much as I love Bugatti, my money would be on GT-R if the race is on road course. (with amature driver like me...) GT-R,,, you can't mess up too bad on road courses. It's like you are sitting in the car, and the car (or the engineer in Japan) is doing the drive for you.


Gator: Honestly,,, I was little bit disappointed with speed of other drivers too - after all, it was intermediate group. Perhaps, they haven't had enough experience in heavy rain like that. It doesn't show well on video, but it was VERY slippery, and especially when you are driving high-horsepower, rear wheel drive cars, it can be quite hairy in corners.
For front wheel drive cars or other all wheel drive cars,,, I have no other explanation than I was a little better driver than they were. :duck: Oh and ATS definitely did great job as a car for sure!!!
I wouldn't call anyone on road course "Chicken" though. Especially when they are pushing (within their limit) their car in heavy rain like that,,, they get my respect, whether they are fast or slow. :thumbsup:
 
#26 ·
Sorry to bring back old thread.
I just wanted to give you guys "my version" of comparison on ATS vs. BMW on track. (you probably read a lot from magazines. this is "non-racer, normal consumer's" opinion)

I was on a business trip to Germany last 2 weeks, and rented a car, which happened to be BMW 328 AT. (I was hoping for manual, but they just gave me Auto)
On 11/10, Nurburgring was open for public lapping day (or whatever they call it). So,,,, I had a car, and one of the best (scariest) track in the world. I had to go for it.

Amazingly, weather condition was quite similar to the day shown in the video above - Wet and cold. (3 degree C with rain)
Before this time, I've been to N-ring only 4-5 times, with only 2-4 laps each visit, so I don't know the track that well, so I couldn't push as hard.
(track is almost 13 mile long, so nobody will remember all the corners after handful laps, I'm sure)


Here is how I felt about Bimmer compared to ATS.

1. Chassis/Suspension/Shocks...
I was surprised quite a bit. I used to own BMW 335i and I know how tight that car was.
This Bimmer got softer. A lot softer. It had too much body roll for track.
ATS had tighter feeling, with less body roll.
Win: ATS


2. Engine/Transmission
I thought ATS had more power. (2.0T engine vs. 328 engine)
If I remember correctly, there should be about 30 more HP on Caddy's engine.
Granted, I didn't ride them back-to-back so I can't be 100% sure, but this Bimmer pulled as hard as ATS, if not harder.
Transmission,,,, I think Bimmer had better hardware, and ATS better software. (Again,,, I'm surprised to say Caddy has better shifting logic...)
Bimmer shifting felt little too lazy, comparing to ATS. (or maybe N-ring had whole lot more corners than Gingerman, which made Auto trannies look that much lazy)
Win: tough one... I would say it's a tie


3. Comfort/Space
Well,,, on Autobahn, Bimmer was very comfortable. Not that ATS wasn't comfortable on road, I think Bimmer was little more cushier. (that was a bad thing on track but good thing on the road)
Interior - stereo/HVAC control: Bimmer was easier. Period.
As you would agree, ATS trunk is shaped bit weird, due to the rear wheel well coming in quite high. I don't think Bimmer's trunk was any bigger but was shaped more 'user friendly', so to say.
Win: BMW



As we all would agree, BMW 3 series was/is the benchmark of 'small size luxury SPORT sedan'.
There was no better car to do everyday commute, AND occasional track day.
Nowadays, there are a lot of options - A4, Merc C, Lexus IS, Infi G, and of course your beloved ATS.
I always thought Bimmer was still a better choice, if I had to go with one car for both daily use and track day.
After driving ATS and new Bimmer, I think Bimmer is better choice if the focus is more on Daily Use than Track Day.
In my case, I also want my cars to turn good on track - so if I were to choose between those two, I'll probably go with ATS.


Like I mentioned earlier, I'm very anxious to see ATS-V, especially after hearing the rumor that ATS-V might have 500HP or so.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
(sorry about long stroy...)
 
#27 ·
Nice to see your honest report.. It clears up some things that I had been hearing from other road racing "experts" on this board..

To hear them tell it.. The ATS AWD, with it's poor weight distribution.. And it lack of Magnetic Ride Control.. Was an ill handling, wallowing boat compared to a RWD ATS..

I'll be the first to admit I'm no road racer.. But I've been know to take an off ramp at a good pace.. And when I do that, my AWD ATS feels like it's on rails.. I recently followed a Cobra Mustang that was pushing the off ramp as hard as he could.. For a second, I thought about going around him on the inside.. But my better judgment told me not to try it..
 
#28 ·
I thought I'd share my track experience in a base model 2.0T 6MT. Did a track day at Atlanta Motorsports Park and the experience with the car was fantastic. My car is mostly stock besides adding higher temp brake fluid (Type 200 superblue) and the V-Sport suspension package that included FE3 springs, new end links, and thicker sway bars front and rear. I was also running the factory staggered wheels and Bridgestone Potenza RE50A summer tires. I can't say I'd recommend any other upgrades for the casual enthusiast as these changes are very livable daily but greatly improve the on-track experience. Minimal brake fade compared to most production cars but the car obviously requires a cool down lap after 2-3 hot laps. Held up much better than my friend's Focus ST that roasted his Hawk HPS front pads despite him running a ratio of 1 hot lap per 3 cold. Here's a video of one of the laps https://youtu.be/O5uwiU--RGE
 
#34 ·
Those of you venturing to the track, or other HPDE, for the first time should be aware that your regular automotive insurance policy does not cover you. There are a number of agencies who sell single event insurance. NOTE: these policies normally are written to exclude liability insurance so the only coverage is for damage to your vehicle and not any damage you cause to other vehicles, participants, or facilities. Because of the way they are written a PLUP (personal liability umbrella policy) won't apply either because it rides on top of your other risk policies providing additional monetary coverage beyond the underlying policy limits which must be in effect for the PLUP to come into play.

Track events are a lot of fun and are FAR safer and more responsible than street antics but make sure you are prepared with the proper skills, knowledge, and coverage for the event.

And don't even think about having your car removed from the event and then filing a claim if something bad happens. With all of the cell phone cameras, car mounted cameras, etc. any incident you are in will likely turn you into a YouTube star. Here is one recent example that ended in insurance fraud charges: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2017/02...wners-downfall-in-fraudulent-insurance-claim/
 
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