ATS not selling for 3 series prices so lets add $1k+ to manual trans prices!
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Cadillac ATS General Discussion Forum Discussion, ATS not selling for 3 series prices so lets add $1k+ to manual trans prices! in Cadillac ATS Discussion Forums; In case you haven't noticed, Cadillac has raised the price of the standard transmission ATSs to match the auto trans ...
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    Hoosier Daddy's Avatar
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    ATS not selling for 3 series prices so lets add $1k+ to manual trans prices!

    In case you haven't noticed, Cadillac has raised the price of the standard transmission ATSs to match the auto trans prices for the 2014 model year.

    I found out on the Cadillac "Build Your Own" web page right after reading the post in the News forum about ATSs not selling for BMW 3 prices and needing bigger incentives: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...g-command.html


    Ironic.

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    Thunder Gray STS's Avatar
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    Just wait until the new CTS hits the lots.

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    ben.gators is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: ATS not selling for 3 series prices so lets add $1k+ to manual trans prices!

    The new CTS is going to be bigger than the ATS, and I "think" the base price of CTS will be well above an ATS, even a fully equipped ATS. So I "think" the new CTS is not going to considerably affect the sales figures or prices of the ATS. Different segment, different cars, different buyers.... ATS vs. CTS is like C class vs. E class, 3 series vs. 5 series, A4 vs. A6....

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    In case you haven't noticed, Cadillac has raised the price of the standard transmission ATSs to match the auto trans prices for the 2014 model year.

    I found out on the Cadillac "Build Your Own" web page right after reading the post in the News forum about ATSs not selling for BMW 3 prices and needing bigger incentives: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...g-command.html


    Ironic.
    IF I am not mistaken, for the 2013 model year, there was a one thousand something dollar fee to have manual (right?). So what is changed now?

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    mikesul is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: ATS not selling for 3 series prices so lets add $1k+ to manual trans prices!

    It was about a $1300 credit vs the auto trans. Glad I got a 2013, and used the credit to pay for a sunroof.

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    ben.gators is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: ATS not selling for 3 series prices so lets add $1k+ to manual trans prices!

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesul View Post
    It was about a $1300 credit vs the auto trans. Glad I got a 2013, and used the credit to pay for a sunroof.
    Oh, OK, I knew there was something like that, but couldn't remember it was credit or fee....

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    Re: ATS not selling for 3 series prices so lets add $1k+ to manual trans prices!

    this article sort of smacks of sensationalism, giving the impression ATS sales are off compared with the market leader (it's the market leader DUH!!!) , then saying it's on par with two other top cars in the class (sounds impressive to me for a 10 month old car vs cars that have decades of momentum/mind-share), then calls it an uneven battle due to lack of engines (presumably diesel) and lack of body styles/models (convertible, coupe, and super performance) then the article finishes off undoing its opening by stating sales are where Cadillac wanted them to be. the article seems like a no substance piece to me.

    Of course, this is all with the ATS trying to take on its small,sport sedan rivals with a single bodystyle and limited powertrain options compared to the numerous options available from the German automakers in this class.

    This uneven battle won't last long, though, as recent spy shots have revealed that Cadillac is hard at work on a high-performance ATS-V and an ATS Coupe.

    as far as a price increase for manual is concerned, it's a non starter, if you passed on a '13 manual in favor of a '14, that sucks, and i feel your pain, but car prices go up a few percent a year this is normal, and first year prices are sometime lower for an item the factory is unsure about, and likely saw a higher percentage of manual buyers than they anticipated and compensated.
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    Re: ATS not selling for 3 series prices so lets add $1k+ to manual trans prices!

    as far as a price increase for manual is concerned, it's a non starter, if you passed on a '13 manual in favor of a '14, that sucks, and i feel your pain, but car prices go up a few percent a year this is normal, and first year prices are sometime lower for an item the factory is unsure about, and likely saw a higher percentage of manual buyers than they anticipated and compensated
    The CTS-V for example, has seen nearly a 5K price hike since it was introduced for the 09 model year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben.gators
    The new CTS is going to be bigger than the ATS, and I "think" the base price of CTS will be well above an ATS, even a fully equipped ATS. So I "think" the new CTS is not going to considerably affect the sales figures or prices of the ATS. Different segment, different cars, different buyers.... ATS vs. CTS is like C class vs. E class, 3 series vs. 5 series, A4 vs. A6....
    The base price for the new, bigger, better CTS is just over $46 grand. With options the price can hit close to $60 grand or more. The base VSport is $59,900, the fully loaded VSport is $69,900. God only knows what the real V will cost. I think the point is that even though Cadillac has made some great strides, they haven't completely proven themselves to many potential customers. I know if I was a BMW owner or a Mercedes owner, I would think twice about buying a Cadillac that was priced the same or more than the BMW, or Merc. I think the reason the outgoing CTS has generally held its value well is because it is priced correctly for its segment. Time will tell, but I don't think the new CTS or ATS will hold their value very well. Hope I'm wrong.

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    Re: ATS not selling for 3 series prices so lets add $1k+ to manual trans prices!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder Gray STS View Post
    The base price for the new, bigger, better CTS is just over $46 grand. With options the price can hit close to $60 grand or more. The base VSport is $59,900, the fully loaded VSport is $69,900. God only knows what the real V will cost. I think the point is that even though Cadillac has made some great strides, they haven't completely proven themselves to many potential customers. I know if I was a BMW owner or a Mercedes owner, I would think twice about buying a Cadillac that was priced the same or more than the BMW, or Merc. I think the reason the outgoing CTS has generally held its value well is because it is priced correctly for its segment. Time will tell, but I don't think the new CTS or ATS will hold their value very well. Hope I'm wrong.
    the base BMW 528i has an MSRP of $48,775 versus a base CTS price of $46,025 both including destination

    a 550i optioned with m-sport pkg, dynamic dampers (CTS V-Sport standard MRC), bmw apps (CTS V-Sport standard CUE), auto high beams (CTS V-Sport standard intellibeam), heated seats (CTS V-Sport standard heated seats) and driver assist pkg (CTS V-Sport standard driver assist pkg), sport auto trans (CTS standard paddle shifters) ends up with an MSRP of $73,775 including destination versus $69,995 including destination for the CTS V-Sport Premium

    so how is a price advantage of $2750 - $3875 plus the typically higher incentives for the CTS the same or more for the Germans?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pissedoffwookiee

    the base BMW 528i has an MSRP of $48,775 versus a base CTS price of $46,025 both including destination

    a 550i optioned with m-sport pkg, dynamic dampers (CTS V-Sport standard MRC), bmw apps (CTS V-Sport standard CUE), auto high beams (CTS V-Sport standard intellibeam), heated seats (CTS V-Sport standard heated seats) and driver assist pkg (CTS V-Sport standard driver assist pkg), sport auto trans (CTS standard paddle shifters) ends up with an MSRP of $73,775 including destination versus $69,995 including destination for the CTS V-Sport Premium

    so how is a price advantage of $2750 - $3875 plus the typically higher incentives for the CTS the same or more for the Germans?
    And there lies your answer. Higher incentives. So why not price the car correctly to start with rather than discount the crap out if it, which gives the perception that the car is a POS and the only way to sell it is to heavily discount it.

    I'm sure there are lots of Volt owners that are thrilled that a '14 Volt is priced $5000 less than a '13. same car. (Just an example)

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    Re: ATS not selling for 3 series prices so lets add $1k+ to manual trans prices!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder Gray STS View Post
    And there lies your answer. Higher incentives. So why not price the car correctly to start with rather than discount the crap out if it, which gives the perception that the car is a POS and the only way to sell it is to heavily discount it.

    I'm sure there are lots of Volt owners that are thrilled that a '14 Volt is priced $5000 less than a '13. same car. (Just an example)
    not a compelling argument, in my opinion, for several reasons:

    1) Chevy is not a highline vehicle and buying considerations are in another class altogether
    2) with the exception of the Prius, people are hesitant to buy electric cars and the volt rebate is a reflection of that
    3) i said typically, because we don't know what rebate if any will be on a future car, i included it to illustrate the price differential could even be greater
    4) the closest example we have is the ATS which is priced similarly less than its BMW counterpart $35,795 vs $37,775 $1980 difference for both leatherette turbo cars and currently there is no rebate on 2013 ATS
    5) you stated for same or greater, I've shown an average of $3300 less, you passed over this and used an example some stumbling on Chevys part as proof of the unknowable fact that Cadillac will do this in the future.

    what i do know is Cadillac sales have been reported as being up 38% this year, and 70% of ATS buyers are new to the brand/conquest buyers, so this is some evidence the pricing strategy close but just under BMW may be working. what i don't know is if this will work for CTS, but the formula is starting to prove itself.

    you also suggest right pricing, as in forego incentives and price the cadillac significantly less than its german counterparts in order to increase its perceived value to conquest buyers, to this i might point to Hyundai and their genesis. a highline aspiring model that has not lit up the sales charts despite being priced significantly less (6 cylinder models base price) vs the 535i $35,095 vs $54,325(W/O destination) respectively its priced even less than the base 528i at $47,800. sometimes cheaper is just perceived as cheaper, just like a shamrock polo cant impart the same attributes to its wearer like a Ralph Lauren polo can.

    if cadillac thinks it can deliver a car people are willing to pay near BMW money for, good for them, if they prove successful, congratulations our brand has just climbed another rung on the luxury ladder.
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    ben.gators is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: ATS not selling for 3 series prices so lets add $1k+ to manual trans prices!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder Gray STS View Post
    The base price for the new, bigger, better CTS is just over $46 grand. With options the price can hit close to $60 grand or more. The base VSport is $59,900, the fully loaded VSport is $69,900. God only knows what the real V will cost. I think the point is that even though Cadillac has made some great strides, they haven't completely proven themselves to many potential customers. I know if I was a BMW owner or a Mercedes owner, I would think twice about buying a Cadillac that was priced the same or more than the BMW, or Merc. I think the reason the outgoing CTS has generally held its value well is because it is priced correctly for its segment. Time will tell, but I don't think the new CTS or ATS will hold their value very well. Hope I'm wrong.
    They have announced the prices?! I still don't see anything in Cadillac's website....

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    Re: ATS not selling for 3 series prices so lets add $1k+ to manual trans prices!

    Based on past Cadillac practice this is the first step in eliminating the manual transmission from the ATS.

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    It wasn't my intent to start an argument, especially with someone who has way too much time on his hands to research what an M Sport retails for. When you are talking about 3 grand on a 70,000 purchase, that's nothing. Take the CTS-V 2009-2014. The reason these cars do not depreciate like a typical Cadillac is because of the price point they are sold at with what they compete against. You can buy one of these for the low 60's to high '50's. The closest car that is a direct competitor is a real M5 or AMG, These cars aren't a paltry 3000 more they are 30,000 more. BUT the M5 and AMG Merc, has a MUCH higher % of depreciation than the V does because these cars are priced too high to start with. All that being said, I think we both would like to see Cadillac position itself right up there with the best from Germany. I just don't think they are quite there yet with market perception. After this generation of cars (the XTS not withstanding), then Cadillac will have proven it can hang with the big boys and price accordingly.

    I think the price drop on the Volt is extremely relevant, in case you haven't heard Cadillac is coming out with the ELR. Dropping the price on the Volt allows GM to introduce the ELR at a lower price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben.gators

    They have announced the prices?! I still don't see anything in Cadillac's website....
    Yes, I saw the sheet at the dealer when I got my ATS.

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    Re: ATS not selling for 3 series prices so lets add $1k+ to manual trans prices!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder Gray STS View Post
    It wasn't my intent to start an argument, especially with someone who has way too much time on his hands to research what an M Sport retails for. When you are talking about 3 grand on a 70,000 purchase, that's nothing. Take the CTS-V 2009-2014. The reason these cars do not depreciate like a typical Cadillac is because of the price point they are sold at with what they compete against. You can buy one of these for the low 60's to high '50's. The closest car that is a direct competitor is a real M5 or AMG, These cars aren't a paltry 3000 more they are 30,000 more. BUT the M5 and AMG Merc, has a MUCH higher % of depreciation than the V does because these cars are priced too high to start with. All that being said, I think we both would like to see Cadillac position itself right up there with the best from Germany. I just don't think they are quite there yet with market perception. After this generation of cars (the XTS not withstanding), then Cadillac will have proven it can hang with the big boys and price accordingly.

    I think the price drop on the Volt is extremely relevant, in case you haven't heard Cadillac is coming out with the ELR. Dropping the price on the Volt allows GM to introduce the ELR at a lower price.

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    Yes, I saw the sheet at the dealer when I got my ATS.
    no argument, debate, among like minded individuals, and not too much time i have access to info on a lot of cars.

    a far as Volt goes, GM was stupid in putting out a bleeding edge machine on Chevy, first it's way new tech, as we know new tech is usually luxury expensive (case in point smart phones a double whammy with high cost of entry with expensive hardware and even more expensive plans required to use them at first now free with cheap unlimited plans), so putting out what amounts to an experimental commuter car at a luxury car price in a brand that's meant for the average Joe/Josephine was silly at best, bordering on inept. Cadillac has a good shot here, for the aforementioned reason, as well as luxury is in some ways having the new thing or the exclusive thing. secondly ELR can help both itself and VOLT by getting the tech to be on more cars thus spreading out the costs, allowing both to be priced appropriately for their markets

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