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Cadillac ATS General Discussion Forum Discussion, Cadillac is lucky... in Cadillac ATS Discussion Forums; Originally Posted by Fraggy Finally somebody who recognizes that there is a potential issue here. Thank you. I don't think ...
  1. #31
    CTSCHICK's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
    Finally somebody who recognizes that there is a potential issue here. Thank you.
    I don't think it will ever be an issue that Gm corrects because most people don't notice it, Only reason's I noticed it is because I am used to driving higher horse power cars that don't act that way.
    With all of the GM's I have owned and driven only the 4 cylinder ecotecs act that way.
    Like you hear with the ricer kids talking about waiting for the vtec to kick in that is VVT Delay lol
    At least the GM's can be tuned to correct it and get rid of it.

    Why they program it that way you would have to ask my b.f. but I can tell you it doesn't have anything to do with Torque Management because the 4 cylinders have barely any in the GM programming.

    If you try driving a ecotec Malibu, Cobalt and ect you will notice they behave the same way which will tell you Gm has no plans of changing anything.
    Other VVT cars I have been in do the same thing especially the Honda Vtecs
    Hair Slinger and Hair Slinger like this.

  2. #32
    gfxbt is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post

    I drive in sport AND manual mode exclusively. I like choosing my shift points. I've been doing it since 2006 without issue.
    Gas Mileage:

    You stated that your 335 got 18.8 mpg and the ATS gets 18.2. Rough numbers, that's a 3% difference. Over a 16 gallon tank, that's 9.6 miles. Maybe I'm wrong, but getting less than 10 fewer miles on a tank doesn't seem to warrant a statement that the gas mileage in "[o]ne word, SUCKS!" Especially when you have 600 miles on the car. Let it break in. Have patience. I have 3000 miles on mine, initially complained that I was disappointed in the gas mileage, and as i put more miles on the car and broke it in, have seen a considerable improvement. When I first got it, the instaneous never for above 27 on the freeway at 75. Now it sits around 32 - 33. In sum, a little over dramatic about 10 mile delta on a 16 gallon tank.

    Transmission:

    First, if you are complaining because the want-to-be manual mode isn't that good, and you "like choosing [your] shift points," you probably just should have manned up and just gotten a manual. Second, the auto in the ATS is great - doesn't spend all of its time searching for gears, blips the throttle upon downshift, etc. it sounds to me like you are looking for things to complain about. And as for autos, they are what they are. If you want to drive the car hard and interact with it, you don't get an auto. The average consumer gets an auto. And the average consumer doesn't nitpick the tranny. Finally, a "true manual mode" only exists with 3 pedals (i.e., your 335 didn't have a "true manual mode"). Sorry you're so bummed out. Seems to me if you had three pedals you wouldn't have these issues . . .

    Torque Converters:

    You state that the purpose of a torque converter is to "allow[] the engine to spin up a little bit, thereby developing more horsepower." The purpose of a torque converter is to alleviate the necessity of a clutch. If the crankshaft were directly coupled to the drive wheels, while the engine is running (and thus the crankshaft is spinning) the wheels would also spin. This is all fine until you want the car to be stationary and the engine to run. Enter the clutch - disengages the motor from the wheels. In an auto, torque converter unlocked, motor disengaged from the wheel. The purpose of a torque converter is to allow a car without a clutch to remain stationary with the motor running. Without a torque converter or clutch, you would have to shut the engine off every time the wheels weren't spinning. The purpose of a locking torque converter is to increase efficiency. Inefficiency is introduced with a torque converter. The front half of the drive shaft and the rear half of the drive shaft both reside in a viscous solution. When the front half spins it spins the solution and the motion of the solution causes the rear half to spin. A direct link between the front half and the rear half would is more efficient.

    Finally, as to "Cadillac fan boyz," you sound quite like an arrogant BMW snob to me. Don't get me wrong. I love BMWs (at least through the e46 M3), but if your the kind of guy who likes an auto and loved his e90 3 series, you might as well be driving an MB - luxurious, will impress your friends, but wasn't made for an enthusiast (just like any post e46).

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfxbt

    Gas Mileage:

    You stated that your 335 got 18.8 mpg and the ATS gets 18.2. Rough numbers, that's a 3% difference. Over a 16 gallon tank, that's 9.6 miles. Maybe I'm wrong, but getting less than 10 fewer miles on a tank doesn't seem to warrant a statement that the gas mileage in "[o]ne word, SUCKS!" Especially when you have 600 miles on the car. Let it break in. Have patience. I have 3000 miles on mine, initially complained that I was disappointed in the gas mileage, and as i put more miles on the car and broke it in, have seen a considerable improvement. When I first got it, the instaneous never for above 27 on the freeway at 75. Now it sits around 32 - 33. In sum, a little over dramatic about 10 mile delta on a 16 gallon tank.

    Transmission:

    First, if you are complaining because the want-to-be manual mode isn't that good, and you "like choosing [your] shift points," you probably just should have manned up and just gotten a manual. Second, the auto in the ATS is great - doesn't spend all of its time searching for gears, blips the throttle upon downshift, etc. it sounds to me like you are looking for things to complain about. And as for autos, they are what they are. If you want to drive the car hard and interact with it, you don't get an auto. The average consumer gets an auto. And the average consumer doesn't nitpick the tranny. Finally, a "true manual mode" only exists with 3 pedals (i.e., your 335 didn't have a "true manual mode"). Sorry you're so bummed out. Seems to me if you had three pedals you wouldn't have these issues . . .

    Torque Converters:

    You state that the purpose of a torque converter is to "allow[] the engine to spin up a little bit, thereby developing more horsepower." The purpose of a torque converter is to alleviate the necessity of a clutch. If the crankshaft were directly coupled to the drive wheels, while the engine is running (and thus the crankshaft is spinning) the wheels would also spin. This is all fine until you want the car to be stationary and the engine to run. Enter the clutch - disengages the motor from the wheels. In an auto, torque converter unlocked, motor disengaged from the wheel. The purpose of a torque converter is to allow a car without a clutch to remain stationary with the motor running. Without a torque converter or clutch, you would have to shut the engine off every time the wheels weren't spinning. The purpose of a locking torque converter is to increase efficiency. Inefficiency is introduced with a torque converter. The front half of the drive shaft and the rear half of the drive shaft both reside in a viscous solution. When the front half spins it spins the solution and the motion of the solution causes the rear half to spin. A direct link between the front half and the rear half would is more efficient.

    Finally, as to "Cadillac fan boyz," you sound quite like an arrogant BMW snob to me. Don't get me wrong. I love BMWs (at least through the e46 M3), but if your the kind of guy who likes an auto and loved his e90 3 series, you might as well be driving an MB - luxurious, will impress your friends, but wasn't made for an enthusiast (just like any post e46).
    Wow, thanks for taking the time to write all that. I'm only going to clarify 2 things since you like to make assumptions and run your mouth.

    1. It wasn't me that the statement regrading torque converters, it was someone replying to my post. Either way, the tranny could be better, I won't back down from that as I've owned and driven better and know this "compromise" is not necessary. Autos can be much better. If you don't get it, oh well.

    2. I'm NO BMW snob. The e90s are my least favorite BMWs. I owned 2 e46s and an E36 before that. I've seen BMWs decline to mediocrity, but at the time there was nothing I preferred. A FWD A4, um no. A C class, while beautiful, too many non sport compromises. And there was no ATS then. I love my ATS, it's so funny that unless I only praise the car, I get flamed. Hence my fan boy comment. We had them at BMW board as well. It's the nature of the internet I guess.

  4. #34
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
    Wow, thanks for taking the time to write all that. I'm only going to clarify 2 things since you like to make assumptions and run your mouth.

    1. It wasn't me that the statement regrading torque converters, it was someone replying to my post. Either way, the tranny could be better, I won't back down from that as I've owned and driven better and know this "compromise" is not necessary. Autos can be much better. If you don't get it, oh well.

    2. I'm NO BMW snob. The e90s are my least favorite BMWs. I owned 2 e46s and an E36 before that. I've seen BMWs decline to mediocrity, but at the time there was nothing I preferred. A FWD A4, um no. A C class, while beautiful, too many non sport compromises. And there was no ATS then. I love my ATS, it's so funny that unless I only praise the car, I get flamed. Hence my fan boy comment. We had them at BMW board as well. It's the nature of the internet I guess.
    You shoulda bought a manual as No automatic has a resemblance to a stick unless you buy a dual clutch
    Auto period.
    Your Fanboy comment shows what a douche u are.

    I mean you are unhappy with your mileage then stop pressing the gas pedal down so far so often.

    I drive spirited in sports mode and have around 2000 miles and 22.8 mpg.

    And FYI MY 94 supra was a 6 cylinder 3.0t that would smoke any and all M cars period. 3.0t was not a
    BMW creation. You reaffirm why BMW OWNERS are disliked the world around.

    I hate Internet douches.

  5. #35
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    I've driven my ATS in Auto sport and touring and I've also used manual mode. I have however never used sport and manual together. While in manual mode it shifts when I want and I haven't noticed any annoying issues with it. I will agree with others in saying that if your a real enthusiast who wants to control your shifting and rpm to your liking then you should have bought a manual. I know that wasn't an option for those who want AWD and thats Cadillacs fault for sure. Myself I love the way the car handles and feels and the transmission doesn't bother me because when I drive the car I like to have a free hand for coffee or the occasional bird flip and can't be bothered with shifting.

  6. #36
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Quote Originally Posted by Siren05 View Post
    I hate Internet douches.
    “When you loathe yourself, a true friend will respect your honesty. And if you’ve been fortunate in life, he will probably share your opinion.” - Bauvard

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siren05

    You shoulda bought a manual as No automatic has a resemblance to a stick unless you buy a dual clutch
    Auto period.
    Your Fanboy comment shows what a douche u are.

    I mean you are unhappy with your mileage then stop pressing the gas pedal down so far so often.

    I drive spirited in sports mode and have around 2000 miles and 22.8 mpg.

    And FYI MY 94 supra was a 6 cylinder 3.0t that would smoke any and all M cars period. 3.0t was not a
    BMW creation. You reaffirm why BMW OWNERS are disliked the world around.

    I hate Internet douches.
    Haha, you're a trip dude, cheers!

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by JSATS
    Myself I love the way the car handles and feels and the transmission doesn't bother me because when I drive the car I like to have a free hand for coffee or the occasional bird flip and can't be bothered with shifting.
    Awesome! Many of your posts helped me decide the ATS was going to be my next car. Thank you. I really DO love the car, but I feel GM cut a corner or two, the transmission being one of them. By their own admission too. During the restructuring the tranny development program was shut down. It's now up and running but will take some time to develop a new modern tranny. I even heard in the meantime they were going to a Japanese made 8 speed, we'll see what happens with that. So even GM realizes the tranny could be better.

    ----------

    Oh well, this thread is going no where. I guess this forum is only intended to praise the car and not work to fix its flaws. Oh well, happy driving everyone!

    Oh, and I'll be happily driving as well, the suspension and steering are top notch. Is it ok that praised the car too? Or will I now be called a hypocrite, lol.
    Hair Slinger and Hair Slinger like this.

  8. #38
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
    Haha, you're a trip dude, cheers!

    ----------


    Awesome! Many of your posts helped me decide the ATS was going to be my next car. Thank you. I really DO love the car, but I feel GM cut a corner or two, the transmission being one of them. By their own admission too. During the restructuring the tranny development program was shut down. It's now up and running but will take some time to develop a new modern tranny. I even heard in the meantime they were going to a Japanese made 8 speed, we'll see what happens with that. So even GM realizes the tranny could be better.

    ----------

    Oh well, this thread is going no where. I guess this forum is only intended to praise the car and not work to fix its flaws. Oh well, happy driving everyone!

    Oh, and I'll be happily driving as well, the suspension and steering are top notch. Is it ok that praised the car too? Or will I now be called a hypocrite, lol.
    Maybe I should have paid more attention to the transmission when I got the car. Both my wife and I felt it shifted better than our Audi A4 because that car seemed to hunt for a gear all the time and would upshift way too fast most of the time except when in sport mode. I think the ATS is a very smooth shifting car for my type of driving but for what you want it to do maybe it wasn't the best choice. I hope I didn't steer you in the wrong direction or in anyway help you make a decision that you now regret.

  9. #39
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    No way man, I LOVE the car.

  10. #40
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Be a little patient on the MPG. I noticed after the 3500 mark on my premium AWD Turbo ATS, the mileage went up another 2 to 3 mpg on mixed driving....depending how I drive I can average between a low of 21 to a high of 29; usually I get around 25 to 26; 28 on warmer weeks at times. My service manager says your truest MPG will occur at about the 5000 mark; these engines and suspensions are wound pretty tight from the factory.

  11. #41
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    Cool, I'm sure it will.

  12. #42
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
    Here's a couple of vids that show what I'm talking about. You'll see tach needle jump to 3000rpm as soon as i press the gas pedal, then drop and then rise again. After increasing the throttle I never moved my foot again. Both were in 5th gear, manual and sport mode, at 2500rpm at about 62mph on the highway.

    http://s1155.photobucket.com/albums/...er_media_share

    http://s1155.photobucket.com/albums/...er_media_share
    I tried your exact example in the 3.6L and there is not even a hint of this behavior. Power comes on briskly and the revs go straight up, lurching the car forwards,

    I suggest talking to your service advisor, this appears something that can be eradicated.

  13. #43
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    All automatics suck. Direct shift trans arent any better.

  14. #44
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Yep: much better to take three pedals for less than the price of two

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_skies

    I tried your exact example in the 3.6L and there is not even a hint of this behavior. Power comes on briskly and the revs go straight up, lurching the car forwards,

    I suggest talking to your service advisor, this appears something that can be eradicated.
    Thanks for trying that out. Ill wait till break in and see how it goes, and take it in if it persists.

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