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Cadillac ATS General Discussion Forum Discussion, Cadillac is lucky... in Cadillac ATS Discussion Forums; Originally Posted by AdamVIP I have found the sport transmission setting to be infinitely better than the touring. The downside ...
  1. #16
    xtheunknown is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamVIP View Post
    I have found the sport transmission setting to be infinitely better than the touring. The downside for me is that that also sends the mag shocks into bump city. Its still worth it to me though. Perhaps Cadillac can do an update to make sport transmission mode the norm or even separate the suspension mode from the transmission mode.

    As far as the mileage concerns mileage doesn't peak till after break in and while Im sure you think your driving the same you probably arent. The throttle posisition and fuel delivery are different between cars and it will take a while for you to adjust to the new car settings. Not sure which motor you have but I have the 2.0 and have been able to stabilize my combined around 25 and my highway at about 27.

    So I guess in summary. I agree the transmission leaves a lot to desire. Try sport mode. Its better. for the fuel give it a couple thousand miles. Per the manual break in for our cars is 1500 miles. Not 500 like what the dealers tell you. If it still sucks bring it to the dealer.
    I have to agree with you here. Initially, I thought the gas mileage sucked, but after a couple thousand miles, mine too has stabilized around those same numbers. Not sure about the transmission. Mine seems fine. I usually use sport mode and hardly ever manually shift. Then again, mine is a 2.5L not a turbos, so it may behave differently.

  2. #17
    blue_skies is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
    Wow, the fan boyz have come out of the woodwork on this one!

    Guess ill have to shoot a vid to show you guys.

    In reply to some comments...

    I drive in sport AND manual mode exclusively. I like choosing my shift points. I've been doing it since 2006 without issue.

    It's not related to the turbo spooling as the 3.6's I test drove did the same thing.

    It's not my fault for choosing too high a gear as I don't think cruising along at 2500 rpm is too low to be able to have direct acceleration in the same gear. Other cars do it with ease.

    There is no way this tranny is related to the one in my 335's as that one was made by ZF. Even the GM made tranny in the E90 325's and 328's didn't have these behaviors.

    ----------



    That is my hope.
    I have the 3.6 and do not notice the same thing. I drive in S mode almost all the time, and I get 21mpg overall, I see about 20mpg in city (hard accelerating) and 28mpg on freeways.

    In automatic mode, the car will hold rpms if you want, it is all about throttle control, and yes, you have to be aggressive with your foot. I don't see why it manual mode would be different.

    However, manual mode does not prevent downshifting. The car can still auto-downshift, and then it requires a manual up-shift. I found this a bit annoying at first - I would like to have direct manual control, or use it as a 'max gear'. But this is not your problem.

    As to acceleration response - at 2500rpm the car should be very agile and quick to respond to more throttle input. From my experience (holding higher rpms in auto mode), it does exactly that. Not sure where you see a power-lag occuring. Even if you are holding a lower gear, you have plenty of room until the readline, it should not be an issue. I mean, in S auto-mode, the car easily holds 4000rpm.

    I am really wondering if what you observe is a combination of the turbo controller and the break-in period - but I do not see this in the 3.6.

  3. #18
    DavidL is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Nor do I (also have the 3.6); transmission seems the same as my '10 CTS. As to mileage: about 18 in the city; around 27 on the highway at 70 mph; I'm pretty heavy footed, as well. And, any car, from any manufacture, has 'compromises'. As we all know, what one person likes in a car is what another does not.

  4. #19
    Yplus is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    VERY unlikely as that would be "illegal" regarding the government fuel mileage tests. Cadillac got burned big time years ago when they got caught programming the computer to recognize the test cycle and do things to reduce fuel usage in that mode. I guess they hired a bunch of ex video card firmware coders. Anyway, car makers are not allowed to have the car operate differently when being mileage tested. The motivation for any such difference would be irrelevant. Although doing what you suggest would almost certainly hurt mileage which automakers would probably kill to avoid. LoL
    I don't think they would do that to pass emissions, or even for any trickery. I think they do it to make sure the engine is fully broken in before they push high loads at low rpm. There's enough computer technology to achieve this so I just assume it's possible.

  5. #20
    Hoosier Daddy's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yplus View Post
    I don't think they would do that to pass emissions, or even for any trickery. I think they do it to make sure the engine is fully broken in before they push high loads at low rpm. There's enough computer technology to achieve this so I just assume it's possible.
    Of course its possible. I explained why its not legal.

  6. #21
    Nite_Hawk is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Man, how hard you guys driving these cars. I drive pretty aggressive and still get 21-22 in town. Road trip this past weekend I got 30 mpg doing 80mph in Cali traffic.

  7. #22
    Stevo Supremo's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    I have about 250mi on my car and I dont drive light

    right now I'm getting 19mpgs.. when I FIRST got the car it was like 15mpg lol

  8. #23
    Fraggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_skies

    I have the 3.6 and do not notice the same thing. I drive in S mode almost all the time, and I get 21mpg overall, I see about 20mpg in city (hard accelerating) and 28mpg on freeways.

    In automatic mode, the car will hold rpms if you want, it is all about throttle control, and yes, you have to be aggressive with your foot. I don't see why it manual mode would be different.

    However, manual mode does not prevent downshifting. The car can still auto-downshift, and then it requires a manual up-shift. I found this a bit annoying at first - I would like to have direct manual control, or use it as a 'max gear'. But this is not your problem.

    As to acceleration response - at 2500rpm the car should be very agile and quick to respond to more throttle input. From my experience (holding higher rpms in auto mode), it does exactly that. Not sure where you see a power-lag occuring. Even if you are holding a lower gear, you have plenty of room until the readline, it should not be an issue. I mean, in S auto-mode, the car easily holds 4000rpm.

    I am really wondering if what you observe is a combination of the turbo controller and the break-in period - but I do not see this in the 3.6.
    Above 3000rpm it holds fine. It's lower where the problem occurs. If any one Is interested in duplicating the behavior I will describe exactly how to do it. Choose a cruising gear, fourth, fifth or sixth, and maintain a speed that keeps you cruising at about 2500 RPM. Then lean into the pedal, kinda far, but not enough to for it to kick down. You'll see the tach needle rise to 3000rpm, then drop right back to 2500 where it then locks up and then vehicle speed and rpm start to climb from there.

  9. #24
    investor74 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
    Above 3000rpm it holds fine. It's lower where the problem occurs. If any one Is interested in duplicating the behavior I will describe exactly how to do it. Choose a cruising gear, fourth, fifth or sixth, and maintain a speed that keeps you cruising at about 2500 RPM. Then lean into the pedal, kinda far, but not enough to for it to kick down. You'll see the tach needle rise to 3000rpm, then drop right back to 2500 where it then locks up and then vehicle speed and rpm start to climb from there.
    What you are describing is the normal operation of a torque converter in an automatic transmission. The torque converter allows the engine to spin up a little, thereby developing more horsepower. It means you are accelerating faster, not slower. When even more torque is required, an automatic will downshift, allowing more RPMs and more power. None of this is "slippage", it is what the torque converter is supposed to do. At higher RPMs and light throttle, most modern transmissions will approach lock up, not for more power, but to save gas.

    Your comment is the opposite of what most people looking for acceleration are complaining about. They complain that the transmission is so tuned for economy it refuses to downshift unless you floor the accelerator. So they are complaining about lack of RPMs, not too much.

  10. #25
    Jones atsnh is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
    I'm sorry, just need to rant. Been a rough couple of days.

    Let me start by saying I really DO love the car. But more on that later.

    THE TRANSMISSION: The auto transmission SUCKS. Sorry folks, it does. It has very bizarre behavior under 3500 rpm. It is loose with limited lockup. Not much of a "manual" mode at all. As long as you are accelerating right through the gears you won't notice how much the tranny sucks. Let off the pedal, drive in highway traffic for a while loosely using the pedal, and then give it a fair amount of gas, and it slips like crazy. It WILL hold the gear, but the rpm will rise about 500 rpm, then settle back down, and after about a second, it will lock and begin to accelerate the car. All in all, you press the gas and watch this "dance" waste at least 1.5 seconds. Very antiquated. The BMW tranny spanks the crap out of this, as do older ones as well. My 2007 335 was fully locked from about 1800 on, with NO SLIP OR PLAY. A true "manual" mode. This ATS tranny is 2004 at best.
    THE GAS MILEAGE: One word, SUCKS! From delivery through a couple of days ago (600 miles) only 16.x mpg. Granted that included an inordinate amount of city driving so I reset it and 200 miles later, after driving my typical routes, and in typical fashion, it's only risen to 18.2 mpg. My 335 driven the same way, on the same routes, returned 18.8 mpg. And my ATS is only a 2.0! I'd have gotten a 3.6 but was hoping to save gas, but no luck, I'm getting worse mileage. Crap! All driven in "manual" mode in both cars.

    Why is caddy lucky? Because we buy the car anyway. I bought it for the amazing MRC suspension and top of the line EPS. For electric power steering, it's amazing. And the shocks, wow, the most luxurious ride that is also still as stiff as can be. Brilliant. But like I said, lucky. If the suspension and steering sucked as much as the tranny and mileage, this car would be a looker only. So yea, lucky...
    So Fraggy I got what you are saying regarding the tranny so I have a question : what happens when you are cruising along at 3500 rpms and instead of giving it "a fair amount of gas" you floor it? Does it downshift appropriately and take off like a rocket? If it does, might it be a computer programming issue between the timing/fuel/tranny interaction?

  11. #26
    Fraggy's Avatar
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    Here's a couple of vids that show what I'm talking about. You'll see tach needle jump to 3000rpm as soon as i press the gas pedal, then drop and then rise again. After increasing the throttle I never moved my foot again. Both were in 5th gear, manual and sport mode, at 2500rpm at about 62mph on the highway.

    http://s1155.photobucket.com/albums/...er_media_share

    http://s1155.photobucket.com/albums/...er_media_share

  12. #27
    CTSCHICK's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    That looks like the Variable Valve Timing delay hesitation that I had with my 2.4 Ecotec in my G5GT it would do it occasionally during part throttle and almost always at full throttle, My tuner was able to tune it out. Between that and the shift points being corrected the car felt like an entire different and faster car.

  13. #28
    Fraggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTSCHICK
    That looks like the Variable Valve Timing delay hesitation that I had with my 2.4 Ecotec in my G5GT it would do it occasionally during part throttle and almost always at full throttle, My tuner was able to tune it out. Between that and the shift points being corrected the car felt like an entire different and faster car.
    Finally somebody who recognizes that there is a potential issue here. Thank you.

  14. #29
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    Cadillac called me today about my gas mileage since I've never seen anything higher than 23 pure highway and average only 21 which is 80% highway. I have 5,000 miles on the car. They said in order to see 30 mpg you have to drive 45 mph and the engine isn't broken in until 10,000 miles. I'm bringing the car in to have a gas assessment done and to fix several other issues. Stay tune......

  15. #30
    Stevo Supremo's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac is lucky...

    My dad Sells cadillac and this is in defense of Fraggy so please read.

    he came back from vacation today and asked me how the car was. I mentioned this issue that you guys were having, and he mentioned something interesting...

    They had 4 ATS' at the dealership that were having an Idle issue.

    1) the dealership's boss had a 3.6 dip a few times then stalled at an intersection.
    2) had a 2.0 that had erratic idling, stalled once on the dealer lot and almost stalled at an intersection
    3) was another 2.0, never stalled, but he said it was idling really funny
    4) he said the way fraggy said it, he said it acted really weird when some throttle was applied before shifting.

    They figured it was just a bad batch or something made that week, but I told him about this thread and he's gonna tell the dealership owner and see where they can go from there

    getting back to the 2.4 in your G5GT. My buddy had a cobalt ss 2.4 with the Le5 engine, and it had the same issue, he got it trifecta tuned and the problem went away.

    I'm willing to bet that it IS a VVT or A/F ratio table problem, its not a huge issue and a simple tune/update can fix it, Cadillac should get on this before it becomes a bigger issue.
    Hair Slinger and Hair Slinger like this.

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